# Here come the pseudo hippies.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2001, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994 "2001-09-21T12:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/101 "2001-09-22T07:29:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > \*\ ***Kvallulf** > Go fuck yourself. Does nitpicking my post devaluate its content. I’ll admit that it may have been porrly worded so fuck off for making me feel stupid you freaking cunt sore and why don’t you change your name to something a little more impossible to pronounce. Fuckwad. \*\* Four Points: A) It’s easy to pronounce, shit-for-spinal fluid. B) I’m glad he made you feel stupid, because you are stupid. C) Hi Opal 😃 D) When post full of shit, nitpick removes the overflow of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/102 "2001-09-22T07:39:41Z")
I would like to have compassion for the East Timorese _as well as_ those killed on 9-11. However, if there is a stringent disinformation campaign imposed by the US then how am I supposed to if they won’t even inform us. I’m starting a new thread somewhere. **thinksnow, Michael Ellis.** , I don’t expect you to get worked up over the hundred thousand killed in East Timor. Why should you? It wasn’t broadcast on every major news station for two weeks straight. If it were, would you feel/act any differently? The way you are acting now I doubt it. This thread has now reached hijack status and I would gladly start a new thread specifically regarding media disinformation in the USA if a mod sees it fit. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/103 "2001-09-22T07:45:59Z")
Alright, I denounce my “pseudo-hippiedom”. I acknoweldge that America always has the right to take lives at will. American humans are more important than other humans. I shall not critically study America’s past, nor shall I mention the blood that drips from her hands. I shall no longer value human life above all. I shall no longer hope for peace, much less publically display this hope. I shall no longer think in a critical manner about my country, it’s actions, the meaning of morality or the future. Instead, I shall no longer strive to fight the ignorance that spreads complacency and the eventual slaughter that complacency breeds. _sigh_ I hate to get dogmatic on y’alls asses, but damn! Peace would make the world better! Death would make the world worse! America has perpetrated it’s share of injustice, and we can hardly paint ourself as the innocent. Sure, nothing excuses more violence, but it does nobody any good to get so caught up in jingoism that we are not allowed to examine the ways in which acts of death of all types by all parties could be avoided in the past, present and future. I know that some of the emissaries of peace on this board have not been the most eloquent. I beg that they keep from relying the same formulatic sloganism that they battle. But I stand firm. Not killing is better than killing. Peace is a thing to hope and strive for. Ideals, even romantic ones, are worth valueing and upholding. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/104 "2001-09-22T07:46:47Z")
Remarkably, amongst all the heated, er, discussion on this thread, the statements in this particular post, stuck in the middle of the first page, most directly addressed a lot of what’s being said here and in other places. Thus, I reply. First, I want to make it clear that it seems to me that a miltary response, covert or otherwise, may be the only way to respond to the attacks (although certainly not the ONLY thing to do). But… (see below) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapswiller \* > **I keep hearing you say (I paraphrase)“We shouldn’t indiscriminately bomb innocent people.” Well, the administration has said time and time again, "We are not going to indiscriminately bomb innocent people."** Of course not. Though I do think we should be careful about dismissing civilian casualties as “collateral damage,” which military-types may tend to do in a time like this. If we’re going to do this, and it looks like we should and will, we’d better make DAMN sure we do it right. > [@](#): > > **You say,“I don’t want to give up my freedoms at home.” The administration has said, over and over, "We will not compromise our freedoms at home."** I’m sorry, but I don’t believe them. Or maybe they have a different definition of “compromise” than I do. I believe that given the climate in America today, that they WILL attempt to pass laws that squelch civil liberties; various government officials have said as much when they talk about “having” to “rethink” certain freedoms (I’ll dig up cites when I can). And I do mean “freedoms,” not conveniences like e-tickets or curbside check-ins. It’s already happening. And that scares the hell out of me. I’m not saying that it’s inevitable, but I don’t think the reality should be dismissed out of hand. Still, I do find it heartening that there seems to be quite a bit of mainstream attention directed to making sure it doesn’t happen. > [@](#): > > **They have said, not just once, but dozens of times that they are going to conduct a careful investigation before acting; that they are mindful of the possible repercussions of their actions; that they are at war with a small group of fanatics, not the people of any specific nation or the Islamic faith.** Okay, this actually addresses the thing that concerns me the most. The buildup in the Gulf makes it feel like there IS no investigation, that the government’s already decided bin Laden is guilty without any solid evidence, and is willing to bomb the hell out of a foreign country without looking any further no matter what the consequences. Not that I think he’s innocent, but if we’re going to do this, we HAVE to have SOMETHING so the rest of the world (the reasonable parts, anyway) doesn’t think we’re doing this for no reason (or worse, because we’re anti-Islam). Perhaps they do have some proof that they’re not willing to show, for reasons that another post has already suggested. And I can definitely understand Bush’s tough talk in the speech. I just interpret the military movements as a signal that we’re not even considering any other suspects (or any co-conspirators who worked with bin Laden, should he be it), and are about to bomb very very soon, evidence or no. Hope I’m wrong. > [@](#): > > \*\*But, as has been said before, it’s a different world now. \*\* Unfortunately, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/105 "2001-09-22T07:53:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\*But I stand firm. Not killing is better than killing. Peace is a thing to hope and strive for. Ideals, even romantic ones, are worth valueing and upholding. \*\* Yes, BUT… Just how do you resolve matters peacefully with terrorists, especially religious zealots, especially people that several countries around the world would love to put in front of a firing squad? Change foreign policy? Give them money? How? Put it this way: if we were to abandon Israel right now, order McDonalds to pull out all branches from foreign countries, and forswore ever doing anything to any other country ever, would terrorists then leave this country alone? And how close to that ridiculous series of actions would we have to go to satisfy them, or at least make them stop bombing us? What can we do that the terrorists will NOT interpret as a sign of weakness? I’m interested in your reply. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/106 "2001-09-22T08:25:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\* > > _NO FUCKING POSITION ON ANY ISSUE SHOULD BE ADVANCED BY HIJACKING AIRLINERS AND USING THEM TO KILL UPWARDS OF 6000 PEOPLE!!! ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A FUCKING DIPSHIT THAT DOESN’T DESERVE TO BE CALLED HUMAN!!_ > > \*\* Your right. I cannot in any way justify killing 6,000 innocent, unarmed civilians. Then again, that wasn’t my argument. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/107 "2001-09-22T08:26:16Z")
I hate to pass the buck, but I really don’t have the answers to the worlds political situation- nor do I want to be the one making the decisions because I know that I would not be able to make a reasonable one. That is why I am a film student, not a presidential candidate. I am glad their are others out there that have ways of fighting this evil, because I don’t. I don’t support killing, but I understand that it is going to probably happen anyway. The best I can do is refuse to be involved in any of the mess. I really don’t see a solution. I do see that taking life is the greatest evil that you can do unto someone (after all, to take a life is to take the only thing that you ever really had in the first place). There is so much evil that I can’t react except to hold on to the one thing that I see as self-evident. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/108 "2001-09-22T14:57:12Z")
I’m going to join the peacenicks with my own demonstrations and rallies. My campaign is called **“Give Oblong a million dollars a year for the rest of my life”.** That will make me happier. It will make my life easier. Sure it probably will not happen, but it makes me _feel_ good. And really, that’s all that matters right? As long as I _feel_ like I accomplished something, then the job is done. Who cares about reality. When I get the million dollars I can sit around all day wishing for more things that will not happen instead of being productive and coming up with real solutions. Ass, Gas, or Grass forever baby! ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/109 "2001-09-22T15:32:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Sultan Kinkari \*\* > **thinksnow, Michael Ellis.** , I don’t expect you to get worked up over the hundred thousand killed in East Timor. Why should you? It wasn’t broadcast on every major news station for two weeks straight. Well, my little _true patriot_ friend, while it is true that events that happen close to home, that effect the lives of those around you and could have directly affect you had you been unfortunate enough to be on a plane or in a building hold a little more interest to me, that does not make me oblivious to the myriad battles and civil wars going on throughout the world at any one time. However, if you want to focus strictly on the Maubere People, how do you feel about, oh, say Portugal and Indonesia? Or is Portugal in the clear since they were over throw/kicked out by coup in '74? You know what, I’m sure your “sources” have much to say on that, too, so nevermind. I wonder, though, what have you done to ease the suffering of the Maubere? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/110 "2001-09-22T15:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Posted by Oblong_ > That will make me happier. It will make my life easier. Sure it probably will not happen, but it makes me feel good. And really, that’s all that matters right? As long as I feel like I accomplished something, then the job is done. I’d advise you to preview your posts for ironic content in future, Oblong. Did your little rant about hippies make you feel useful? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/111 "2001-09-22T17:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > > **[MC Boots Riley](http://www.thestranger.com/current/music.html)** > > Ah yes, the great MC Boots Riley, one of the finest foreign policy experts of this, nay, **any** time. > > :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: > > I believe I’ve made my point. > > \*\* I gotta go with Michael Ellis on this one. Sultan, over 1200 posts in less than 4 months? That’s a goodly number. Were they all this devoid of intelligence? Using a rapper as a cite for _anything_ on the SDMB is the anthesis of “fighting ignorance”. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/112 "2001-09-22T17:52:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\* > I gotta go with Michael Ellis on this one. > > Sultan, over 1200 posts in less than 4 months? That’s a goodly number. Were they all this devoid of intelligence? Using a rapper as a cite for _anything_ on the SDMB is the anthesis of “fighting ignorance”. \*\* Were they all this “devoid of intelligence”? So I took an unconventional stance, yeah, I thought outside of the box, considering the notion that the US gov’t too could have had a hand in killing thousands of innocent people. Some folks were quick to judge me as an incompassionate traitor. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > **"Using a rapper as a cite for _anything_ on the SDMB is the anthesis of “fighting ignorance”.** Face it, your bordering on outright racism there pal. That was the shallowest, most generalized statement I have read all day. I seriously cannot believe you said that. ☹ I included what MC Boots Riley had said as a means of divulging where in fact I had originally heard about the rumor about the East Timorese. Please notice, if you will, that I included another website with quite a bit more information. Whether it is factual or not I have no way of knowing at this present time. Seriously, I didn’t bring East Timor into the conversation to stir the coals so to speak. It was to provide another viewpoint… if you lose your shit every time you hear a conflicting viewpoint, simply relaying a rumor and never stating it as a matter-of-fact, then I will pray for your strength in these trying times. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/113 "2001-09-22T17:54:19Z")
Did I say racism? Oops! Oh yeah, there are whit rappers aren’t there, my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/114 "2001-09-22T18:00:35Z")
My thoughts on the issue are summed up more eloquently than I could ever put them by TIME magazine columnist Lance Morrow, [excerpted here](http://www.time.com/time/columnist/morrow/article/0,9565,175435,00.html): > [@](#): > > A day cannot live in infamy without the nourishment of rage. Let’s have rage. What’s needed is a unified, unifying, Pearl Harbor sort of purple American fury — a ruthless indignation that doesn’t leak away in a week or two, wandering off into Prozac-induced forgetfulness or into the next media sensation (O.J. … Elian … Chandra …) or into a corruptly thoughtful relativism (as has happened in the recent past, when, for example, you might hear someone say, “Terrible what he did, of course, but, you know, the Unabomber does have a point, doesn’t he, about modern technology?”). > > Let America explore the rich reciprocal possibilities of the fatwa. A policy of focused brutality does not come easily to a self-conscious, self-indulgent, contradictory, diverse, humane nation with a short attention span. America needs to relearn a lost discipline, self-confident relentlessness—and to relearn why human nature has equipped us all with a weapon (abhorred in decent peacetime societies) called hatred. > > As the bodies are counted, into the thousands and thousands, hatred will not, I think, be a difficult emotion to summon. Is the medicine too strong? Call it, rather, a wholesome and intelligent enmity — the sort that impels even such a prosperous, messily tolerant organism as America to act. **Anyone who does not loathe the people who did these things, and the people who cheer them on, is too philosophical for decent company**. Morrow was only wrong on one point. It didn’t even take two weeks for the moral equivalists out there to stop prioritizing the river of blood in New York, and to start talking about some hypothetical innocent civilian in Afghanistan and some Iraqi’s civil rights first; our nation’s national security second. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/115 "2001-09-22T18:14:28Z")
If the hijackers were English would you suggest carpet-bombing the British Isles? Hey could you get those dirty micks while your at it? I’m Irish, shitstain. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/116 "2001-09-22T18:18:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > > **"Using a rapper as a cite for _anything_ on the SDMB is the anthesis of “fighting ignorance”.** > > Face it, your bordering on outright racism there pal. That was the shallowest, most generalized statement I have read all day. I seriously cannot believe you said that.\*\* Jumpin Jehosphat, Batman! Are you being deliberately dense? Attempting to use an interview with a rap musician as a cite in a discussion of geopolitical events is ludicrous. So would quoting Madonna in this case, or in quoting either one in a GQ thread on quantum physics. Racism? :mad: Where do you get that from? Oh. [/quote] Did I say racism? Oops! Oh yeah, there are whit rappers aren’t there, my mistake. [/quote] Backpedal much? ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/117 "2001-09-22T18:33:16Z")
**millrug** , My point is, there are very few white rappers. Like three. I still maintain that your comment was shallow and generalized, and to quote you - the anthesis of “fighting ignorance.” In fact you did it twice, dickwad. The first time suggesting that all rappers are idiots and then suggesting that Madonna was a bubble head. Big _no-no_’s here on the board. Mildly tolerable here _au Pit_, but how in the would can you contend that you yourself are fighting ignorance when you insist upon making such brash comments? I’m not going to get into it. You are dead wrong, OK? FYI, it is possible for a **black rapper** or every other type of musician to say something intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/118 "2001-09-22T18:42:09Z")
**millrug** , BTW, were you suggesting that Madonna is to quantum physics as Boots Riley is to pseudo hippies? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/119 "2001-09-22T18:46:23Z")
**Sultan** if the hijackers had been English, they would have come from some whacked out alternate dimension where the UK hated the US as much as the Taleban does. If I were an American in those circumstances in that freaky alternate dimension (_which I remind you does not exist_\*) then I’d have no problem with retaliation (I’m English BTW). ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/120 "2001-09-22T19:09:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > \*\ ***millrug** , > > You are dead wrong, OK?\*\* Nope, Sultan, you are dead wrong, at least in terms of fighting ignorance and how the SDMB works. If you make a claim like “The U.S. is responsible for 100,000 deaths in East Timor” you have to provide evidence of such. It’s commonly referred to as a “cite”. “Because MC Boots Riley said so” is neither evidence nor a cite in terms of SDMB parlance. You have made a charge of racism. Please back it up, or retract it immediately. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994.md?page=7)