# Here come the pseudo hippies.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2001, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994 "2001-09-21T12:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/121 "2001-09-22T19:29:13Z")
To be fair, **milroyj** (notice the spelling?), **Sultan** did say that the informaiton he cited was likely to be nothing more than total bullshit. Here, let me show you (emphasis and bolded entry, mine): > [@](#): > > Please notice, if you will, that I included another website **[MoJo]** with quite a bit more information. \*Whether it is factual or not I have no way of knowing at this present time. \* So you see, he was merely throwing shit out there to support his notion of something happening somewhere that he heard about from some rapper. Whether it is true or not, he doesn’t know, but he wants to be darn sure that you can read about it from a biased and slanted organization before you call him an idiot. That was nice of him, don’t you think? So, to sum it up, **Sult** has nothing useful to say, but s/he wants to act like they are a world weary observer on the front of every cause, every instance of oppression and tyrany and s/he has many cites including rap artists and slanted organizations to prove her/his point. When that fails, s/he has a full quiver of curse words to throw at you to emphasize her/his point. Kudos. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/122 "2001-09-22T20:18:11Z")
The “psuedo hippies” as you call them have set themselves up in Union Square here in NYC not far from me. Union Square became a beautiful memorial with pictures and candles and signs. The “pseudo hippies” have set up camp in the south part and have defaced George Washington’s statute with a huge peace symbol on the horse’s hindquarter (that’s not all). There are “March on Washington–Peace Now” posters. Even my rabidly Nixon-hating mother was offended. The bodies of the dead haven’t even been recovered yet and you want to sue for peace? I just don’t get it. It seems to me that being for “peace” is like being against wife-beating. Of course peace is preferable to war. Of course love is better than hate. Is this in doubt? But the “pseudo-hippies” can’t abide force of any kind. Oh, if you ask them “Well, are we supposed to turn the other cheek?” they may reply “No, that the people responsible should be punished.” But what does that mean to them? Thier slogans and rhetoric suggest capitulation, at least to my ears. Perhaps I just don’t understand the philosophy of Pacifism. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/123 "2001-09-22T20:42:11Z")
They can’t abide force of any kind unless its against an animal research facility or other politically “correct” target. In the late sixties when I was 9 or 10, my sister and I would joke that the hippies’ motto was: **PEACE OR I’LL KILL YOU!** ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/124 "2001-09-22T23:31:34Z")
or convicted murderers who happen to have charisma, a funny name, and dreadlocks. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/125 "2001-09-23T01:50:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jabe \* > I want to see this resolved as peacefully as possible with no civilian casualties. Jabe, it’s too late for that. **There are 6,000+ civilian casualities buried in rubble in New York** Please wrap your mind around that fact. What part of “kill every man, woman, and child in America” are you having a problem comprehending? These people do not want to talk to us, reason with us, or stop killing us. There ultimate goal is the extermination of us and our way of life. It would be wonderful if reason could fix this problem. It can’t. The world has been attempting half-measures since the 1970’s. There have been three decades of civilians killed by car bombs, suicide bombers, and other horrors around the world. Now, instead of killing people in their own countries in ones and dozens they’ve moved the battle to halfway round the world and killing by the thousands. Do I want to see civilians killed? No. But they will be. They already have been. Even if we do not use force civilians will be killed because that’s what these terrorists do - they kill people. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/126 "2001-09-23T02:02:51Z")
Sort of off topic, but in accord with broomstick: I was watching a BBC reporter interview an American official or talking head I can’t remember which but I remember the exchange: BBC: But will America keep its resolve once the body bags start showing up? American: The body bags are already here. They’re coming out of the World Trade Center. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/127 "2001-09-23T02:19:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > If the hijackers were English would you suggest carpet-bombing the British Isles? If some whacked-out terrorists of English origin hijacked 4 US airliners and crashed three of them into buildings, then the UK government refused to hand over the chief architects of said terrorist acts and indeed continued to support them – Yeah, I’d advocate opening up a can of whup-ass on the Brits. As has been pointed out, though - it ain’t the UK that’s doing this, nor any country in Europe. Contrary to the many posts saying the government has a “kill them all and let Allah sort them out” approach, the US government HASN’T engaged in knee-jerk bombing. Not yet, anyway. Nor have we all been stripped of our civil rights. Are we sending our military to where, if we choose, we can launch an attack. Yes, in fact we are. That doesn’t mean we’re going to turn Afganistan into a parking lot. Here’s a major difference between US and THEM - in our country, even after our president declares war, we continue to allow our citizens to dissent and publicly express dissatisfaction with our government. In their country, if you don’t agree with the government line you are at the least imprisoned, or even executed. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/128 "2001-09-23T02:33:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*In their country, if you don’t agree with the government line you are at the least imprisoned, or even executed. \*\* Imprisoned, executed, or a member of the Northern Alliance. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/129 "2001-09-23T03:15:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > \*\*or a member of the Northern Alliance. \*\* Which worked out great for the one dude that got knocked off just before the WTC was destroyed. BTW, I’m Irish too. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/130 "2001-09-23T06:41:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sultan Kinkari \* > \*\ ***Kvallulf** > Go fuck yourself. Does nitpicking my post devaluate its content. I’ll admit that it may have been porrly worded so fuck off for making me feel stupid you freaking cunt sore and why don’t you change your name to something a little more impossible to pronounce. Fuckwad. \*\* Yeah, Kvallulf! How DARE you take him seriously enough to challange his facts! How DARE you make him feel stupid, just because he posted a stupid opinion! Kvallulf, you are one not-nice-type person. Fuckwad. Bwhahahahahaha! ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/131 "2001-09-23T07:38:09Z")
**Lemur866** , So I posted some conflicting remarks. I’ve realized from the gego that I could either concede politely and let it die a quiet shameful death or totally fly off the handle all together. Fuck it. Eat shit and die dickfor. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/132 "2001-09-23T11:44:06Z")
I have always believed that what the world really needs is more anger. This is more true now than ever before. As such, I wholeheartedly endorse this open hostility towards people who shy away from violence and death. Clearly, they are the problem. I am apalled by the fact that they advocate temperance and moderation without a complete alternate plan of action. Furthermore, it is not at all hypocritical for us to attack them as such without being able to show what, if anything, military strikes can realistically hope to accomplish. Why, if it weren’t for the goddamned hippies, we’d be strong and united, which would make us better than all those weaker, less hawkish, more homosexual nations. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m late for my apointment at the recruitment office. Like the rest of you, I signed up for the marines because I am more than willing to put my own life on the line for the sake of the military actions I that I so obviously support. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/133 "2001-09-23T16:24:24Z")
Glad to hear that, **Var**. See you on the tarmac. [ul]-Cpl. **ThinkSnow** , USMC[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![LabRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/898d66/32.png) [@LabRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LabRat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/134 "2001-09-23T16:26:57Z")
_Ahem_ 1. Thank you for your thoughtful and calm post Leaper. It’s nice to see that someone is trying to take this thread back from the screeching that it’s become. It seems to have been ignored, though. 2. The folks that are against military action are making a bad assumption about those who are pro-; namely that they are lovers of war. I am sickened with regret over the loss of life these past two weeks and I am sickened over the thought of the deaths to come. War is a terrible thing that we avoid until we feel we have no other option. It’s the reason we have diplomacy, world courts, international law, embassies, arbitration and summits. In case you’re skimming this message for the bold print, I’ll state it even plainer. WAR IS A DREADFUL TOOL OF STATECRAFT THAT SHOULD BE AVOIDED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I don’t like it, I hate it. I hate what it does to the soldiers, I hate what it does to the civilians. I hate what it does to our society. I think the pro-military side hates it too. Peaceful methods are USUALLY best. Violent methods should USUALLY be avoided. But the world is a complex place and no single approach will work in every situation with every nation. To believe otherwise is simplistic and naive. The people shouting slogans at each other need to recognize this. 3. Sultan Kinkari is a troll. Read over these pages and you’ll see all of the signs. Let’s adopt a policy of non-intervention (like he recommends for Afghanistan) and stop feeding him. If he goes away and stays away, it will support his ideas, if he hangs around, we’ll have evidence that passive methods don’t always work against a determined nuisance. -LabRat ps. This is my first visit to the Pit. I’m pleasantly surprised by it. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/135 "2001-09-23T17:19:40Z")
Right on lab from King ---
**Author:** ![atypicalcarl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@atypicalcarl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atypicalcarl)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/136 "2001-09-23T17:20:14Z")
I’m confused about what would be considered a peaceful, conscionable solution to the Taliban’s blatant support of international terrorism. It seems that whatever steps are taken could result in the loss of more innocent lives. What are a few options?[ul] [li]Economic sanctions? - Their children die of starvation.[/li][li]Non-aggression and peaceful protest? - Where? In America? - That’s showboating.[/li][li]Wait, and hope a better option for protecting ourselves comes along? - You are trying to cover a timebomb with a peace sign, and that puts _my_ children at risk.[/ul][/li] Like it or not, a strike with so-called “surgical precision” is the probably the safest choice and will put the least number of innocent lives at risk. Do you honestly believe that anyone with his finger anywhere near the button wants to “nuke the fuckers?” This tragedy **has** become an eagerly-awaited and chic cause celebre for a sad few that mistake defense and patriotic unity for warmongering and idiocy. The OP was dead-on. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/137 "2001-09-23T22:21:05Z")
Didn’t Chamberlain try the peace route and searching for root causes? Yeah, that worked real well. Peace and nonviolence only work if the other side is also willing. It’s been proven the other side is not willing in this case, therefore, move on peaceniks and find a new issue. Go hang a banner against animal testing from the Golden Gate Bridge or some other thing that is useful. ---
**Author:** ![LabRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/898d66/32.png) [@LabRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LabRat)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/138 "2001-09-27T23:42:56Z")
King, Thank you my liege. Lab ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994/139 "2001-09-28T00:10:05Z")
Oblong, get your head out of your ass. The “BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY” group was founded by a bunch of students who felt very strongly about the Affirmative Action case here at U-M. They’ve been marching and hollering now for several fucking years. I think they are something of a fringe group, as other supporters of the affirmative action cause don’t like how strident they are. For whatever reason, they have taken up the peace cause as well. Maybe they do just want to be “pseudo hippies” but it started a long time before September 11, 2001. But is it so odd that someone could be committed enough to the issues of peace that they’d want to show it publicly? I don’t care for this group, but at least I know something about them. Jeeeeeeeeeesus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-come-the-pseudo-hippies/82994.md?page=6)