# Here comes Flippy **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264 "2017-09-13T19:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/41 "2017-09-14T16:22:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just saying, if I were a loiterer, [this’d](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giS41utjlbU) scare me off. [This might be less intimidating.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzlsvFN_5HI)😛 ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/42 "2017-09-14T17:15:36Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Automation is very bad for the economy. People need to work. Why I won’t even buy a car that isn’t 100% hand made by humans. Must be nice to be rich enough to only buy Ferraris. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/43 "2017-09-14T18:02:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I do recall a conveyor belt carrying “hamburgers” through flames when I ate there during college. Yep, Burger King switched to their robot form of cooking due to the high minimum wage rates. It appears minimum wages were too high by sometime in the 50’s when they started using the robots. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/44 "2017-09-14T18:23:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just saying, if I were a loiterer, [this’d](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giS41utjlbU) scare me off. > [@Jophiel](#): > > [This might be less intimidating.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzlsvFN_5HI)😛 The great thing is that both of those are from the same TED Talk: [Meet Spot, the robot dog that can run, hop and open doors by Marc Raibert](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4In7d6X-c); it was posted online last month. The technology on display is amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/45 "2017-09-14T21:04:19Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I know. This document: [Manpower Planning for Technological Change](https://books.google.com/books?id=tS1qavNeHiIC&pg); Case Studies of Telephone Operators, Issue 1574 from 1968 says that there were 200,000 telephone operators in the United States. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that there are currently 8,860, and we’re making about ten times the calls. Exactly. There are approximately 50,000 fast food restaurants in the US. Where is the factory that can assemble that many robots? Where then are the techs that will repair them? The installers and sales people? None of them exist today. Sure, the factory can be offshored, but not so much the installation and repair. Even if offshore, it will still employing people somewhere. Jobs have and will continue change dramatically and move around the globe due to technical advances. Those who adapt will prosper, those who are content flipping metaphorical burgers (“Would you like to upsize to an allegory?”) will be caught by surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/46 "2017-09-14T21:08:18Z")
Or to bring it home, reposting talking points from right-wing media outlets can and is done by bots on twitter. So not only are robots taking the place of burger-flippers, they’re taking Okra’s job too. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/47 "2017-09-14T21:16:37Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Exactly. There are approximately 50,000 fast food restaurants in the US. Where is the factory that can assemble that many robots? Where then are the techs that will repair them? The installers and sales people? None of them exist today. Perhaps the folks making hamburgers can take some courses to build and sell the robots. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/48 "2017-09-14T21:20:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > . . . What are tens of millions of unemployed people supposed to do with their time? Watch TV? Drink? Drugs? Sit on the porch? > > It’s pretty short sighted. There you go, knocking all my hobbies … ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/49 "2017-09-14T21:32:43Z")
And yet, somehow, In N Out manages to start everyone at $10 and change an hour, offer decent benefits, and six figures to managers, while maintaining having one of the cheaper and best burgers in the business (about half the price of a similar 5 Guys or Fatburger burger) and constant lines out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/50 "2017-09-14T22:19:13Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Exactly. There are approximately 50,000 fast food restaurants in the US. Where is the factory that can assemble that many robots? Well, the factory itself is primarily staffed with robots so it’s not as though all the fry cooks can enter the robot-building industry. I’d guess that you can get enough salespeople and techs out of 5,000 restaurants leaving only 45,000 restaurants worth of people who are out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/51 "2017-09-14T22:28:12Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > A robot that flips burgers is a really stupid idea. What you want is a grilling system where you load frozen patties into a hopper, and when you need one it plops out a grilled burger. No “flipping”. That’s like imagining a robot standing there with a scrub brush and an apron doing the dishes. Click the link in the OP, and then go to the website in the graphic of the machine. It looks even more stupid than you might think. > [@](#): > > As for the notion that automation is going to ruin low wage jobs, guess what? Lawyers and bankers and managers are getting hammered by automation as well. . And the Russians are even automating Message Board Posters!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/52 "2017-09-14T22:47:44Z")
[Here](http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-zume-pizza-automation-20170706-story.html)’s a story from the Los Angeles Times in July about a pizza restaurant in Mountain View that uses robots. The article says, “It has a robot that squirts tomato sauce onto its pies. It has a robot that spreads the sauce, mimicking the movements of Zume’s head chef. There’s a robot arm (similar to those found in auto manufacturing facilities) that puts the pie in the oven. And, as of this month, there’s a robot that presses the dough into a perfect circle.” That sounds like a ridiculous number of robots to do something that a human can do quite easily. My very first job was as a pizza cook at Chuck E Cheese. After training for a couple of hours, I was able to make decent pizza fairly quickly. And I could make the entire pie myself. (The article later says, “Humans topped the pizza with pepperoni, fresh basil and cheese.” So the robots aren’t even adding the cheese or other toppings.) The article says the robots can make ten times the number of pies as a restaurant staffed by humans. But how many restaurants have that kind of customer volume? So I’m skeptical about these attempts at automating restaurant work. (Admittedly at Chuck E Cheese, we did use a machine with rollers to turn the balls of dough into flat disks that went onto the pans. And we used a giant Hobart mixer to turn the flour and water into dough and another machine to turn the blocks of cheese into piles of shredded cheese.) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/53 "2017-09-15T11:37:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > (Admittedly at Chuck E Cheese, we did use a machine with rollers to turn the balls of dough into flat disks that went onto the pans. And we used a giant Hobart mixer to turn the flour and water into dough and another machine to turn the blocks of cheese into piles of shredded cheese.) And is it really pizza :)? Actually, when the kids were of the age to enjoy CC parties, I found the product entirely edible (but I have low standards for edible). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/54 "2017-09-15T11:53:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So I’m skeptical about these attempts at automating restaurant work. (Admittedly at Chuck E Cheese, we did use a machine with rollers to turn the balls of dough into flat disks that went onto the pans. And we used a giant Hobart mixer to turn the flour and water into dough and another machine to turn the blocks of cheese into piles of shredded cheese.) As I said before, there’s only so much of a kitchen you can automate. I used to run a Jack in the Box, so I’ll use that as an example. I can see a machine that loads a frozen patty from a hopper onto a grill and cooks it. Then what? You’ve still got to toast a bun, apply a schmear of mayo to the top, spritz on some ketchup, add on some onion, pickle, lettuce, and tomato, then transfer the patty onto the bun, add cheese, close it, wrap it, put it in a bag with napkins and utensils and condiments and whatever side dishes have been ordered with it, and get it to the right customer. You’d need a dozen or so machines working in perfect concert with one another to pull that off and deliver a result comparable to and cost-effective with what human workers can do. You’d still need human operators to deal with errors and breakdowns, which would happen often, and you’d need humans to clean the machines (which is a constant process in a food service environment). Could a machine even close and wrap a sandwich gently without crushing it? I’m not sure it could - McDonald’s drive-thrus have the automated dispensers that drop the cup into a holder, ferry it over to the tap, and fill it with ice and soda, but they still rely on a human to put the lid on it. And then there’s the more abstract aspects of food prep. How do you teach a machine the concept of “easy mayo” or “extra ketchup” or “a whole lot of onions and a dab of mustard in the middle, and put the tomato on before the lettuce instead of afterward”? How about frying an egg? You can’t do it strictly by time or temperature, because no two eggs are the exact same volume or ratio of white-to-yolk. You’ve got to look at the egg to determine if it’s done or not. How do you teach a machine to visually identify degrees of egg doneness? Caliburger is basically a knockoff of In-n-Out and they serve a limited menu, so it’d probably be easier for them to automate parts of the process than chains like Jack or Wendy’s or Taco Bell that have larger menus. (Can you imagine having to code a new procedure for the machines every time you rolled out a new product?) Still, I don’t see how they could realistically cut down on their kitchen crew with automation in a way that’d cost less than just paying their employees what they’re worth. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/55 "2017-09-15T12:09:16Z")
Everyone needs a livelihood. And most people need a vocation. But too many people make the mistake of thinking those must be the same thing. Robots are replacing the part of working that people don’t like, and leaving the part that people do like. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/56 "2017-09-15T12:43:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps the folks making hamburgers can take some courses to build and sell the robots. :dubious: Well, that is how the world works - adapt or be left behind. It always has. It’s just (arguably) happening faster now. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Well, the factory itself is primarily staffed with robots so it’s not as though all the fry cooks can enter the robot-building industry. > > I’d guess that you can get enough salespeople and techs out of 5,000 restaurants leaving only 45,000 restaurants worth of people who are out of luck. Like all those automobile factories in that are completely automated? There will be many human occupied jobs in the “robot building” factories, just as there are in any other manufacturing facility. Until something else changes…which gives me a thread idea. > [@Chronos](#): > > Everyone needs a livelihood. And most people need a vocation. But too many people make the mistake of thinking those must be the same thing. Robots are replacing the part of working that people don’t like, and leaving the part that people do like. This sums it up, except the remaining jobs won’t necessarily be what people like, but will be those that currently require humans. Those, too, will change over time. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/57 "2017-09-15T12:47:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How about frying an egg? You can’t do it strictly by time or temperature, because no two eggs are the exact same volume or ratio of white-to-yolk. You’ve got to look at the egg to determine if it’s done or not. How do you teach a machine to visually identify degrees of egg doneness? If it’s really just visual (I have never actually fried an egg, since I don’t like them), then that is probably doable. Machine learning/visual recognition has come a long way - give an algorithm several hundred/thousand pictures of over easy/over hard/sunny side up/etc and it’ll learn it. Made even easier because the orientation of the camera will be consistent (since the egg will presumably be plopped on the same spot on the grill). Hamburger assembly I agree would be challenging, along with the rest of your points. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/58 "2017-09-15T15:20:04Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Like all those automobile factories in that are completely automated? There will be many human occupied jobs in the “robot building” factories, just as there are in any other manufacturing facility. Until something else changes…which gives me a thread idea. The question isn’t “Will there be twenty or thirty people in a factory?”, the question is “Does the factory create enough jobs to significantly offset the jobs the factory’s product is replacing?” One factory is putting out enough robots to replace a whole lot more jobs than the factory created. In 1980, there were 900,000 US workers making 8,000 US-produced automobiles. In 2014, there were 700,000 US workers making 11,600 vehicles. Manufacturing is getting [increasingly automated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCgnWqoP4MM). I can’t believe that you would think that we’re automating burger cooking but that’s okay because the factories won’t be similarly automated. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/59 "2017-09-15T15:42:14Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The question isn’t “Will there be twenty or thirty people in a factory?”, the question is “Does the factory create enough jobs to significantly offset the jobs the factory’s product is replacing?” One factory is putting out enough robots to replace a whole lot more jobs than the factory created. > > In 1980, there were 900,000 US workers making 8,000 US-produced automobiles. In 2014, there were 700,000 US workers making 11,600 vehicles. > > Manufacturing is getting [increasingly automated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCgnWqoP4MM). I can’t believe that you would think that we’re automating burger cooking but that’s okay because the factories won’t be similarly automated. The theory is, is that the automation will make production more efficient, and therefore, allow products and services to be offered at a lower price, which means that people will have more money to buy goods, which means that more goods must be produced, which means more jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264/60 "2017-09-15T15:52:09Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Manufacturing is getting [increasingly automated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCgnWqoP4MM). I can’t believe that you would think that we’re automating burger cooking but that’s okay because the factories won’t be similarly automated. Very cool video; thanks for posting it, **Jophiel**! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-comes-flippy/796264.md?page=4)