Here, little chickie... Here little chickie... I'm going to KILL YOU!!

Hijack: The earth’s population is still growing, but it is not growing exponentially anymore, the rate of increase is getting smaller.

I personally don’t see a problem. Killing the chicks and tossing them in the dumpster would be wrong. Killing the chicks and feeding them to the other animals would be fine. After all, what do you think “lion chow” is made of? Tofu? I don’t see why the zoo would just throw away chick carcasses as a matter of policy, it would be wasteful.

And typically zoos don’t give live food, because of the potential risk for injury to the zoo animals.

I would be fine with telling kids what the chicks were going to be used for. However, I can see why they would want to avoid the issue, too many upset parents. I think it would be a valuable lesson for the kids to learn, but what can you do?

Once I have kids I’m planning on setting up a chicken coop. We’ll feed them, take care of them, harvest the eggs, and every so often chop one of their heads off. This is something every meat-eating child should experience regularly. After all, meat isn’t grown in a lab, it’s dead animals. Let’s all face facts.

Yeah, I think part of the reason the vegetarian movement is growing is because people stopped teaching their kids where their food came from, they find out later (I was recently shocked to find out my almost 6-year old stepdaughter does not know that chicken the food and chicken the bird are the same) and are as grossed out by the idea as when most children find out about sex. In fact, I think vegetarians and those who think that sex is evil have a lot in common.

Well, I’ve taken tours of zoo feeding facilities… I remember seeing a wide variety of things. They use packaged food, grains, peanut butter… all sorts of stuff with different tastes and textures. Variety is an important part of the diet. The place looked like a supermarket with a twist.

on the carniverous side, I saw a bunch of frozen mice and meat. No chicks that I recall… which doesn’t mean that there weren’t any.

I don’t think it is a good idea to cuddle children until they lose the cuteness and then throw them in the dumpster.

Not such a hot idea for chicks either.

PunditLisa said:

Can I believe she said this? No, I cannot. But she did.

From a very strict, idealistic moral standpoint, I say it is wrong. The official line of the administration (that the chicks are for food) does not match what the employees say (that a lot of the chicks get thrown out). I feel pretty certain that these chicks are being used to lure children, parents, and money to the zoo.

However…zoos need money. Other animals need to eat. Not all of the chicks are getting thrown out. And killing chicks is not that much different from killing chickens, which we do all the time. Technically morally wrong, but I could get over it.

I’m sorry, but are you equating an animal with a human being and saying they get the same rights? After all, nobody mentioned killing children until you just did.

You do know that we eat chicken, right?

Oh, please. Get over yourself and your developmentally disabled analogies. I grew up watching my grandfather chop the head off of that night’s dinner on a regular basis. My mother’s family were all West Virginia farmers and coal miners, so I was acutely aware of where dinner comes from. I became a vegetarian as an adult–at age 22, in fact.

Care to try again?

"And eventually these kids will grow up . . . "

—Not if we toss 'em in the microwave when they’re not little and cute anymore, they won’t!

I’m not an animal-rights activist, and I know where my cheeseburgers come from. (I like mine with lettuce and tomato…)

I have no problem with people in other parts of the world eating dogs or cats. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it; in our society, we’ve got a taboo against it because we mentally classify members of those species as companions. So we don’t do it here.

But I think there’s a big distinction to be made between raising an animal for food, which we need (although not necessarily by that route, though we seem to be designed for a diet that includes at least some animal protein), or to be beasts of burden, and raising them to be entertainment, and killing them as soon as they lose their entertainment value. That animals are dying that I might be fed - it’s nature’s way that one animal dies so another animal might eat. Maybe we should rise above that, and maybe we will. But that animals are dying that I might be entertained - IMO, the weight of their loss is entirely out of proportion to the ephemeral nature of our gain.

I’m not saying (yet) that the chicks fit that category; I’m still working that out in my mind, though I’m leaning that way. I’d been thinking about greyhound racing, which clearly fits on the ‘dying for entertainment’ side of my dichotomy: greyhounds are bred to be raced, and once their brief racing careers are over, they’re killed, despite the fact that they still have most of their natural lives ahead of them. Once they’re done amusing us, they’re history.

The chicks here seem to fall somewhere in between: the claim is that they’re bought as animal food, pure and simple, but that the zoo people figured that a short stop in the petting zoo before feeding the lions and the emus wouldn’t be a problem.

My problem with this is that I can’t make any sense of it. The chicks aren’t fed to the animals alive, so it’s not like they needed to receive live chicks in the first place. And it doesn’t seem like chicks, as such, are a particularly necessary part of, say, the lions’ diet. I have a hard time believing they’d order live chicks if they weren’t running what is basically a petting zoo within the zoo proper.

I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that the chicks’ real role in the zoo is to provide entertainment, and then incidentally be killed and fed to the other animals when they outgrow their brief stage of cuteness.

I’m also bothered by an implicit dishonesty here: when we go to a zoo, we assume that the animals there will more or less live out their natural lives there: we’re keeping them penned up for our entertainment, but not killing them. And while I have no idea what they do with the animals in private petting zoos, they’re being treated like pets, with the implicit messages that accompany that apparent status.

But here we’ve got a place that is a petting zoo within a zoo. The kids (and most parents too, I would guess) naturally assume that the chicks they’re petting are being kept around, rather than being killed and fed to the lions. That’s not true. This isn’t ‘educational’ at all; it’s a sham.

Is it a particularly important sham? Not really, I suppose. But zoos these days are claiming the mantle of educational institutions. If they want that mantle, they’ve got more than the usual obligation to tell it like it is.

If only Homer Simpson were around to solve this dilemma:

Lisa: No I can’t! I can’t eat any of them!
Homer: Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Lisa honey, are you saying you’re never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad! Those all come from the same animal!
Homer: (Chuckles) Yeah, right Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.

Well, do animals really need to eat chicks, going back to what Firefly said? That is, chicks are pretty small. Can they really fit into an animal’s diet? Or are there enough chicks that they do make a difference? Just a point of clarification.

Morally I don’t think it’s necessarily “wrong.” But I personally feel kind of repulsed- connecting with an animal that’s going to be dinner. And there doesn’t seem to be any real point to putting them on display. I guess they want to get the most out of their product (the chick) but it feels rather like the animals are being…I don’t know, objectified. I doubt many people will come to the zoo for the direct purprose of watching small chicks, and visitors don’t have to pay for the privelige of going to an individual exhibit, do they?

So overally, I don’t know that I’d say a huge injustice is being committed. Personally, though, it would be an exhibit I’d rather not visit.

Guinastasia wrote:

Because those baby chicks were made out of marshmallows. :wink:

Equate animals with humans, no. However, I put them on the same continuum, just at different places, and do not believe that animals exist to serve at our pleasure. Should they have the same rights? Of course not. There is obviously a difference between a person, a chicken, and a blackfly, but just because there is a difference does not suggest to me that humans should be entirely free to do as they wish to animals. I do not support the needless killing of animals for the same reason that I would not support the needless killing of people – a fundamental sanctity of life. I find the raising of chicks for their cuteness value followed by a quick termination to be rather needless, and therefore quite disrespectful to sancity of life. It’s not a matter of black and white, but rather a question of greys. For me, this use of chicks in this way strays too far into the dark shades for me to be comfortable.

And no, we don’t eat chicken. You may, but we don’t.

FREE THE DAPHNIA!

I don’t see the distinction being as big as you claim RTFirefly. As vegetarians (e.g. in India) have proved for generations, we do NOT need animals for food. So why is mental stimulation (using an animal for entertainment) any less noble than physical nourishment (using an animal for food?)

I told my kids from earliest that whatever they killed, they’d have to eat. They quickly learned the few exceptions—mosquitos and such. They knew people grow apples, cattle, fish, watermelons, to sell for food. They now know people in other cultures eat horses and dogs and cats and other thihgs. They know lab animals are subjected to experiments so people are safer and healthier. It takes time and teaching, but I think they have a respect for life without a Disneyesque view of reality. So far, they choose to eat a variety of foods, including red meat and vegetables. I think the fuzzy chicks that lose their cuteness should be utilized productively, but it is up to every child’s parent to tell them what they can absorb, when they can understand it.

This message brought to you by the Muffin consortium. :wink:

ROTFL! Mind if I use this for a sig?

Last summer a fellow kayaking guide made some stew for lunch for everyone, and while tossing some moose meat into it, he told the story of the moose hunt, including his giving of thanks to the moose once he killed it.

Now some folks might say he was being silly, for it didn’t make any difference to the moose. Others might wonder why he killed the moose in the first place seeing as it never did anything to him. I suggest that what is worth noting is that he consciously made a values judgement which respected the life of the moose while recognizing the needs of the human. For him killing a moose just for the heck of it would be anathema.

Now let’s take this respectful approach and apply it to the zoo chicks. If the kids (or their parents) were presented with the opportunity of petting the chicks, then thanking the chicks, and then killing the chicks, how long would the line be? Not too long I expect.

So what is learned through the zoo chick experience? A false view of the world which turns a blind eye to the sanctity of life. Instead of presenting a chick, the zoo presents only the cute values of a chick, and divorces itself from everything else. This is not education. It is only an entertainment, and a very poor entertainment at that. More importantly, it precludes the learning of environmental decision making, and precludes the developing of environmental ethics.

I am a vegetarian. But I am still open minded enough to be willing to let someone show me that sex is not evil. Preferably someone who is female, personable, intelligent, and has a wide variety of interests.

Hey, instead of letting them cuddle the chicks, ask them if they want to see the snakes being fed. They don’t have to watch if they don’t want to, but kids have a morbid sense of curiosity (As do we all…Don’t you slow down and rubber-neck at bad car accidents?). I’m sure their appetites for destruction is equal to the snake’s.

There was once a little chickie
and she wanted to be fed,
So I poured some Boilin’ water
on the little chickie’s head.

Well, the little chickie pleaded,
and the little chickie begged,
Then the little chickie laid
a little hard-boiled egg.