# Here’s a list of reasons from various pundits about why the Democrats got whipped. Agree / Disagree? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562 "2016-11-20T18:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/141 "2016-12-21T22:14:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s the same issue. The only reason they can be wrong is racism, homophobia, misogyny, or selfishness. > > Regards, > Shodan Another way that it might be put it is that many Trump supporters were voting for him because he seemed to be the candidate that was addressing their concerns of being economically disenfranchised and ignored by the parties. His outsider non-politician status was a benefit. His crazy diarrhea of the mouth/Twitter was a negative, as was the racism and other stuff, but NOT enough of one to make them think that Hillary was a better choice. Like I said earlier, bigger fish to fry. If you live in Bumfuckton, MO pop 2213, it’s likely that you are less worried about Trump being racist or sexist, and more worried about Hillary being focused on the coasts, global warming (which I imagine seems kind of remote and theoretical to the non-scientific people in the working class), international trade, and (in your view) pandering to minorities. That’s not wrong- it’s self-interest. It’s the same sort of self-interest that causes any identity politics group to vote a certain way, despite not necessarily agreeing with the entire platform. ’ But the Democrats have made anything other than complete endorsement of those principles and ideas into a moral wrong, and being indifferent or opposed to them is now not just a political decision, but a test of character and intellect. And people don’t like being told they’re not only incorrect, but morally wrong and stupid in the bargain. So there’s a sort of double-whammy effect here- you have a candidate who purports to speak to this middle-America group, and then you have the opposing party who tends to paint things in absolutes and accuse people of moral turpitude and ignorance if they don’t agree. You have one thing pulling and the other pushing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/142 "2016-12-21T22:23:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s the same issue. The only reason they can be wrong is racism, homophobia, misogyny, or selfishness. “The world is 5,000 years old” = racism or homophobia? “Evolution is a liberal lie” = homophobia or selfishness? “Climate change is a lie spread by the Chinese” = misogyny or homophobia? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/143 "2016-12-21T22:27:26Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > So “let’s fix global warming or our grandchildren will all drown” is, in your mind, equivalent to an ultimatum? I do not agree. Except that that climate change was hardly an issue that was focused much on in this election. The ultimatums were more along the line of, “This is my opinion on race and gender and sexual orientation in America today, and if you disagree with me you are racist or sexist or homophobic. I will not compromise, and I will not tolerate dissenting views.” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/144 "2016-12-21T22:50:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Except that that climate change was hardly an issue that was focused much on in this election. > > The ultimatums were more along the line of, “This is my opinion on race and gender and sexual orientation in America today, and if you disagree with me you are racist or sexist or homophobic. I will not compromise, and I will not tolerate dissenting views.” Unless this is just a tingling you have in your body somewhere you might provide citations. Otherwise you are just saying that there are people committed to certain issues because they think it’s the right thing to do, and because you disagree you are accusing them of “dictating” something to you, which is no less than what you are doing to them. Maybe the sensitivity about this just reflects a feeling down inside that whomever you are disagreeing with is actually right. In any case why such a strong reaction to being disagreed with? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/145 "2016-12-21T23:40:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Another way that it might be put it is that many Trump supporters were voting for him because he seemed to be the candidate that was addressing their concerns of being economically disenfranchised and ignored by the parties. His outsider non-politician status was a benefit. His crazy diarrhea of the mouth/Twitter was a negative, as was the racism and other stuff, but NOT enough of one to make them think that Hillary was a better choice. > > Like I said earlier, bigger fish to fry. If you live in Bumfuckton, MO pop 2213, it’s likely that you are less worried about Trump being racist or sexist, and more worried about Hillary being focused on the coasts, global warming (which I imagine seems kind of remote and theoretical to the non-scientific people in the working class), international trade, and (in your view) pandering to minorities. That’s not wrong- it’s self-interest. It’s the same sort of self-interest that causes any identity politics group to vote a certain way, despite not necessarily agreeing with the entire platform. ’ > > But the Democrats have made anything other than complete endorsement of those principles and ideas into a moral wrong, and being indifferent or opposed to them is now not just a political decision, but a test of character and intellect. > > And people don’t like being told they’re not only incorrect, but morally wrong and stupid in the bargain. > > So there’s a sort of double-whammy effect here- you have a candidate who purports to speak to this middle-America group, and then you have the opposing party who tends to paint things in absolutes and accuse people of moral turpitude and ignorance if they don’t agree. You have one thing pulling and the other pushing. Exactly. People don’t want to be lectured. It gets tiresome and adults generally don’t have to put up with it. The thing is I don’t think the left understands that and those they could win to their side are going to dig in their heels out of spite. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/146 "2016-12-21T23:49:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Exactly. People don’t want to be lectured. It gets tiresome and adults generally don’t have to put up with it. The thing is I don’t think the left understands that and those they could win to their side are going to dig in their heels out of spite. Adults have to put up with this when they act ignorant though. Tired? Digging in the heels? The world goes round man. Short term satisfactions are OK but you don’t want to sell the farm over it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/147 "2016-12-21T23:59:09Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Adults have to put up with this when they act ignorant though. > > Tired? Digging in the heels? The world goes round man. > > Short term satisfactions are OK but you don’t want to sell the farm over it. You are right the world does go round. Up until the point the sun engulfs it. Doesn’t mean that one should act counter productively in the short term. I don’t care that much if the left continues being highly tone deaf to their own rhetoric and actions. It’s not going to hurt me having 8 years of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/148 "2016-12-22T00:16:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Exactly. People don’t want to be lectured. It gets tiresome and adults generally don’t have to put up with it. The thing is I don’t think the left understands that and those they could win to their side are going to dig in their heels out of spite. Yeah, like that SOB Galileo…how _dare_ he tell people that the Earth can’t possibly be the center of the universe? Just because he actually **made observations** about how the universe worked, doesn’t mean he gets to tell people who base their beliefs on blind faith that they’re wrong! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/149 "2016-12-22T00:46:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You are right the world does go round. Up until the point the sun engulfs it. Doesn’t mean that one should act counter productively in the short term. I don’t care that much if the left continues being highly tone deaf to their own rhetoric and actions. It’s not going to hurt me having 8 years of Trump. I think you missed my point. You are making the mistake of thinking the world revolves around those whose tantrums are covered more by the media, or something. When a child has a crying fit you notice, and take some intelligent steps. But you don’t change reality around it. In the end the short term gain of shitting on the lawn will run out and that’s nobody’s problem but the right’s. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/150 "2016-12-22T01:47:53Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I think you missed my point. > > You are making the mistake of thinking the world revolves around those whose tantrums are covered more by the media, or something. > > When a child has a crying fit you notice, and take some intelligent steps. But you don’t change reality around it. > > In the end the short term gain of shitting on the lawn will run out and that’s nobody’s problem but the right’s. It is comforting that the Left seems to have learned nothing from this election. It is just a bunch of self-absorbed navel gazing yet again. My personal position is that that the Left is just plain irritating to the people in the majority of people in states that matter. I am not a right-winger myself but I have been to fundamentalist Christian tent revivals that were less preachy than your average Leftist sermon. I truly believe that the Left is cannibalizing themselves because it is made up of a loose coalition of people that are fundamentally unhappy people and depend on domestic conflict to make their quilt of unrelated movements work. You could solve almost every domestic issue and they would still be fighting like it is a new Civil War because that is what they do. All you are seeing now is extreme backlash against the type of rhetoric that irritates the average person over time and certainly not in a good way. If the Left learned some softer sales skills that don’t involve poorly planned camp-outs, penis parades or crystals, you may be able to swing voters over to the moderate liberal side. Most Americans are never going to be true Leftists (or far Right for that matter) because they don’t have a mental disorder but there is a spectrum to everything. The Neo-Puritan Regressive Left has simply become counterproductive through their own obnoxiousness and incompetence and turned people off from even moderate liberal issues. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/151 "2016-12-22T01:57:20Z")
Thank you for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/152 "2016-12-22T01:59:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Thank you for sharing. You are welcome as always. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/153 "2016-12-22T02:40:58Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Yeah, like that SOB Galileo…how _dare_ he tell people that the Earth can’t possibly be the center of the universe? Just because he actually **made observations** about how the universe worked, doesn’t mean he gets to tell people who base their beliefs on blind faith that they’re wrong! > > :rolleyes: It isn’t what. It’s how. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/154 "2016-12-22T05:00:58Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Yeah, like that SOB Galileo…how _dare_ he tell people that the Earth can’t possibly be the center of the universe? Just because he actually **made observations** about how the universe worked, doesn’t mean he gets to tell people who base their beliefs on blind faith that they’re wrong! > > :rolleyes: Galileo didn’t have to campaign or win elections. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/155 "2016-12-22T15:59:10Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Sorry I just noticed this (somewhat old now) comment: > > Really? Such as what? > And note that the members of an organization supporting X, and the organization supporting X, are not the same thing. Probably answered already but there are several gun regulations that are already in place that the NRA supports. > [@](#): > > Nope. The Heller decision struck down certain limitations that were in place in DC. > But opposition to that decision doesn’t imply “complete ban on use of firearms for self-defense” since those restrictions didn’t prevent anyone owning a firearm or using it for self defense. It was a restriction on certain types of firearm and on storing them loaded with the safety off. The DC laws included a complete ban on handguns. It included a requirement that all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock. So this made it illegal to have a functional firearm in the house. It had to be disabled in some way (not just having the thumb safety on). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/156 "2016-12-22T16:13:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > One task facing liberals ahead may be how to tell people that they’re wrong, while not alienating them or losing their vote. > > (That assumes that the people they address are “wrong” to begin with, but the second issue is how to tell someone that they are racist/xenophobic, etc., without coming across as antagonistic.) One task facing liberals ahead may be realizing how they were wrong without throwing up their hands and abandoning their principles. The second issue is realizing that racists/xenophobes had little to no effect on the race because those votes are baked in. They ALWAYS vote Republican, they didn’t suddenly become racist/xenophobes AFTER electing Obama into office TWICE just in time to vote for Trump over the worst Democratic candidate in modern history. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/157 "2016-12-22T16:25:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > “The world is 5,000 years old” = racism or homophobia? > “Evolution is a liberal lie” = homophobia or selfishness? I don’t think creationism was a major theme of the recent election, so it doesn’t really apply. Unless you have some examples or a cite. > [@](#): > > “Climate change is a lie spread by the Chinese” = misogyny or homophobia? That one is selfishness - as in, greedy corporations want to use oil instead of spending billons on expensive things like solar power and pixie dust, or greedy Republicans who want to do cost-benefit analyses on matters of public policy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/158 "2016-12-22T19:15:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > One task facing liberals ahead may be realizing how they were wrong without throwing up their hands and abandoning their principles. > > The second issue is realizing that racists/xenophobes had little to no effect on the race because those votes are baked in. They ALWAYS vote Republican, they didn’t suddenly become racist/xenophobes AFTER electing Obama into office TWICE just in time to vote for Trump over the worst Democratic candidate in modern history. Many extremists came out to vote for donald, who had not been part of the cake before. He energized racialists. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/159 "2016-12-23T16:54:51Z")
Here is a serious analysis from the New York Times: [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/upshot/how-the-obama-coalition-crumbled-leaving-an-opening-for-trump.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/upshot/how-the-obama-coalition-crumbled-leaving-an-opening-for-trump.html?_r=0) What I found most surprising was (as it was totally obvious to me that Donald Trump was all about getting the rich richer while throwing the disadvantaged to the wolves): > [@](#): > > Mr. Trump won 20 percent of self-identified liberal white working-class voters, according to the exit polls, and 38 percent of those who wanted policies that were more liberal than Mr. Obama’s. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562/160 "2016-12-23T17:51:05Z")
My vote: Republican obstructionism actually turned out to be a viable strategy. By putting party over country and doing their best to hamstring anything that might help the working class for fear that Obama and the Democrats might get credit, they managed to make the government utterly dysfunctional, to the point that people were willing take a risk and blindly go with what’s behind door number one rather than the status quo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-s-a-list-of-reasons-from-various-pundits-about-why-the-democrats-got-whipped-agree-disagree/772562.md?page=9)