# Here we go again—shitty moderation **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522 "2010-03-23T20:25:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/21 "2010-03-23T23:46:20Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdAXPWvy4E8) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/22 "2010-03-23T23:56:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What I thought you were objecting to was my personal (second use) of “wake the fuck up”. I see that now, but no, that’s not what I was objecting to. I didn’t comment on your use of the phrase, or hers. > [@](#): > > Even though I felt that she attacked first. I had no idea that “toots” qualified as an insult. It’s not an insult. If it was an insult, I probably would have warned you for insulting her. What it is is obnoxious and condescending. I was trying to get you to stop addressing her in that way so the thread would stay on track without the two of you sniping at each other. > [@](#): > > To me, it’s much like the wry “pal”, “missy”, or “son”. Somewhat snide, yes, but certainly not uncommon fodder in GD. I had no idea “toots” would be construed as an “insult”. As I said, I didn’t construe it as an insult. I correctly saw you were being snide, and that’s why I said to dial it back. > [@](#): > > Not exactly right. I was correcting her thinking that I didn’t know the law regarding age. I did so with, shall we say, _flavor_. I had dialed it up, but that was in response to her coming after me, personally, with the same phrase. Next time, less _flavor_ and more content, alright? > [@](#): > > And every time there’s a questionable call it seems to favor the same side. I think this is just selection bias. But if I see two people veering over the line, I do try to address my mod notes to both of them. That sometimes causes complaints of its own, but I’d rather do that than just flagging whoever retaliates. > [@](#): > > I’m still surprised top hear that “toots” is more of a problem than a direct and personal, “wake the fuck up”. “Wake the fuck up” is rhetorical, and I don’t see it as a problem. > [@](#): > > I’d just point out that if she was admonished when I was, nothing that followed would have transpired. While that’s true, I’m still obliged to try to be fair: I think your comment was over the line and hers wasn’t. I didn’t expect that you were going to not only misunderstand my comment, but continue to go after **Eva Luna**. > [@magellan01](#): > > Umm, the thread is still open… But the situation has already been dealt with. **tomndebb** gave her a general mod note, and that’s the same thing I would have done. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Isn’t the whole point of the “no personal attacks” rule to prevent a few overbearing boors from closing down discussion by driving away everyone else with their attitude? That’s one way of putting it. I think the goal of the rule is to keep the discussion on track. Once people start insulting each other, the factual part of the conversation is usually over and it turns into an insult contest. Those are fine but we have a different forum for that. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t this purpose seem defeated when modes take the rule to cover so much behavior that nearly every application ends up being controverted here. That’s not even close to true. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/23 "2010-03-24T00:34:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But the situation has already been dealt with. **tomndebb** gave her a general mod note, and that’s the same thing I would have done. **Tom** admonsihed her for general tone. The “lies” is a specific violation. It does seem to merit an instruction, but if you’re fine with letting it pass, that’s the end of it for me. Thank you for your responses. Now only if that tom would show up, hat in hand, falling over himself with profuse apology. As he is so quick to do. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/24 "2010-03-24T01:15:31Z")
Just thought I’d throw my opinion in here that the moderators did a great job of trying to defuse a fight in GD and acted perfectly reasonably throughout. Kudos. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/25 "2010-03-24T04:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **Marley23** : F’rinstance you called her toots again, and I suspect you did that to annoy her. Do you really call people that in your day to day life? Because I hear that women don’t like that one anymore. He did something similar with me when we were debating an issue. The word he used was _hun_. I couldn’t decide if that was an uncapitalized reference to Atilla or his warriors or a misspelled term of endearment. At any rate, I asked him not to call me that, and he did it again. Such words as _Hon, Missy,_ and _Toots_ are not “snide,” as **Magellan01** describes them. They are attempts to diminish the other person. Women my age grew up with those words and know exactly how they are used. I suspect that **Magellan01** also knows since he has demonstrated that. Good call, **Marley**. The same to **Tom.** ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/26 "2010-03-24T15:18:35Z")
> [@](#): > > We are now officially a board of butt-hurt whiners. Agreed. More bitching goes on in here than the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/27 "2010-03-24T16:31:32Z")
Respectfully, I believe I can identify the root of the problem in this moderation episode: **Marley23** said: > [@](#): > > This isn’t called-for, magellan01. Dial it back. What is “this”? This thread is yet another example of several I have seen where a moderator comment/note/instruction has used vague terms “this” as opposed to explicitly spelling out what the infraction/violation/unacceptable behavior is. Instead of “this isn’t called-for, dial it back”, try “Patronizing other board members isn’t called-for, dial it back.” or “Your tone isn’t called-for, dial it back.” or something specific, so the person knows what “this” is. It should cut down on threads being started over “why was I moderated?” and situations like **Sleeps with Butterflies** violating what she was warned not to do in the thread because nobody responded to her in-thread request for clarification of what it was she was being warned not to do. **Freudian Slit** said: > [@](#): > > I don’t get it. It’s pretty easy to be on the board and never get mod warnings. Just say what you want **without trying to insult the other person** , without profanity, and making your point in a more or less polite but straightforward manner. Amen. And don’t turn every exchange with a moderator into a pissing contest. > [@](#): > > I’ll never grok why people can’t leave the personal out of debates. Would you be this rude to someone you were debating with in real life? They probably would. **Baal Houtham** said: > [@](#): > > Your first use of “time to wake the fuck up” was benign and impersonal. > > Eva Luna’s response seemed personal, but could legitimately be interpreted as impersonal. > > Your post #31, “why don’t you wake the fuck up” was unambiguously a personal attack. Your summary is illuminating. What we have is an exchange that is a series of escalating remarks and tone, starting from perfectly acceptable and ending in direct personal attack. Now the moderator comes along and has to sort out which are acceptable and where the line is and who has crossed it. Of course, the simple and unambiguous thing would be to ban both parties for starting a fight and be done with it. That would get rid of the ambiguity and unfairness that many people seem to be complaining about. Somehow I don’t see that reducing the complaints about moderation. **magellan01** said: > [@](#): > > I had no idea that “toots” qualified as an insult. To me, it’s much like the wry “pal”, “missy”, or “son”. Somewhat snide, yes, but certainly not uncommon fodder in GD. I had no idea “toots” would be construed as an “insult”. Seems to me the whole point of those kind of “snide” remarks is to be dismissive of the other person. Seems to me those are personal remarks that escalate the argument to a flamewar rather than address the salient points. Seems to me that kind of tone is a way to start a fight, not continue a discussion. That form of address seems to me rather jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/28 "2010-03-24T16:36:45Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > What is “this”? This thread is yet another example of several I have seen where a moderator comment/note/instruction has used vague terms “this” as opposed to explicitly spelling out what the infraction/violation/unacceptable behavior is. I agree, and I’ll try to be clearer on those kind of notes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/29 "2010-03-24T17:07:44Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > Agreed. More bitching goes on in here than the Pit. Well, technically the rule changes of last year forced it to go that way. Complaining about The Powers That Be here has always been one of our favourite things. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/30 "2010-03-25T02:19:16Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Respectfully, I believe I can identify the root of the problem in this moderation episode: First, thanks for taking the time to dissect this. I think some of this is spot on, some of it misses the mark. Let me explain: > [@Irishman](#): > > Instead of “this isn’t called-for, dial it back”, try > > “Patronizing other board members isn’t called-for, dial it back.” > > or > > “Your tone isn’t called-for, dial it back.” > > or something specific, so the person knows what “this” is. > > It should cut down on threads being started over “why was I moderated?” and situations like **Sleeps with Butterflies** violating what she was warned not to do in the thread because nobody responded to her in-thread request for clarification of what it was she was being warned not to do. I think you have the right idea here, but it might not (as in the case in question) be specific enough. One of the things at the heart of the disagreement is that what I surmised **Marley23** had in mind was different from what he actually had in mind. Something like “Cut back on the snide remarks, like “toots””. > [@Irishman](#): > > **Baal Houtham** said: > > Your summary is illuminating. What we have is an exchange that is a series of escalating remarks and tone, starting from perfectly acceptable and ending in direct personal attack. Now the moderator comes along and has to sort out which are acceptable and where the line is and who has crossed it. > > Of course, the simple and unambiguous thing would be to ban both parties for starting a fight and be done with it. That would get rid of the ambiguity and unfairness that many people seem to be complaining about. Somehow I don’t see that reducing the complaints about moderation. I think \*\*Baal Houtham \*\* got much of it right. I did take **Eva Luna’s** “wake the fuck up” as a direct personal attack. One that was out of the blue, as I hadn’t even addressed her at all. That said, I think just banning people willy-nilly isn’t the answer, but when the temperature is being raised by two people, a gentle admonishment to both seems the best course. As you move from there to Warnings and Bannings, I think the NBA-like notion of just throwing out both players can be quite unfair. I do think that in this particular instance it would have been fine to either Warn both of us or neither of us. > [@Irishman](#): > > **magellan01** said: > > Seems to me the whole point of those kind of “snide” remarks is to be dismissive of the other person. Seems to me those are personal remarks that escalate the argument to a flamewar rather than address the salient points. Seems to me that kind of tone is a way to start a fight, not continue a discussion. That form of address seems to me rather jerkish. It would be jerkish if it came out of the blue. The question is whether the other poster did something to be sneered at or deserving of a hint of disrespect. As I said, I thought, and still think, that Eva Luna was out of line in her first response to me. And that once she started with that she earned whatever disrespect that she got served. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/31 "2010-03-25T03:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **magellan01** : I had no idea that “toots” qualified as an insult. Food for thought: Can something be “snide” and “sneering” and intentionally displaying “disrespect” without being insulting? We _are_ talking about GD here. William Buckley had a way of undercutting his opponent, but it was with wit and intellect. And I never heard him cross the line into offensiveness. Besides, his arguments were well prepared. Why resort to nastiness? (Politically, Buckley and I did not agree.) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/32 "2010-03-25T05:50:11Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Food for thought: Can something be “snide” and “sneering” and intentionally displaying “disrespect” without being insulting? We _are_ talking about GD here. Yes. Examples: You don’t know what you’re talking about, genius. Look, son, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Sorry, missy, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Let me help you out, hun,… Granted, the first one is a little different, but these are all examples of snide comments that are not insults. > [@Zoe](#): > > William Buckley had a way of undercutting his opponent, but it was with wit and intellect. And I never heard him cross the line into offensiveness. Besides, his arguments were well prepared. Why resort to nastiness? (Politically, Buckley and I did not agree.) In response to nastiness. It’s an option that I feel is sometimes appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/33 "2010-03-25T06:21:31Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Just thought I’d throw my opinion in here that the moderators did a great job of trying to defuse a fight in GD and acted perfectly reasonably throughout. Kudos. Sycophant. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/34 "2010-03-25T06:34:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > In response to nastiness. It’s an option that I feel is sometimes appropriate. But no one was being nasty to you. You just came off as petty being rude when you had no reason to. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/35 "2010-03-25T06:46:27Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But no one was being nasty to you. You just came off as petty being rude when you had no reason to. Her very first response to me was rude. And I hadn’t even addressed her. And then she accused me of weaseling, which I did not do in the least. At that point, she deserved what she got. And more. And the fact that **Marley** came in and mishandled things (IMO) didn’t help. Inadvertently, his moderating inflamed the situation instead of calming it. ---
**Author:** ![ShermanAter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ShermanAter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShermanAter)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/36 "2010-03-25T06:47:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [Scene of the latest injustice.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=556777) > > You got it. Let’s start with the other part of that very post that I cited above: > > Now, from your comment here one would expect to go back and find a post where you said “stop making personal remarks”. But no such post exists. The moderation you offered was in Post 33, but there is no language like that. I’m going to cite it, don’t worry. But first, let’s lay out what the problems in the thread were—real or imagined. There were two. > > One was the language of “wake the fuck up”. The other was name calling, i.e., weasel. Actually capitalization was also cited, so I’ll include “WEASEL”. > > Now we go to the first instance of “wake the fuck up”. It appeared in my Post 15, where I summed up my opinions on immigration. It was directed to no one poster, nor did id address a particular point that was made. It was an opinion where I listed several things I think the government should do to curb illegal immigration. Here it is with enough to remind you of the context: > > So there are the last six words. Directed at no one and well within the forum rules. > > Then, in Post 30 **Eva Luna** takes umbrage at what I wrote and uses those same words responding to me directly: > > She quotes me, directed her response to me, then uses that language. Not a big deal, really, but since I hadn’t even addressed her in the thread, I was taken aback that she came after me as she did. So I gave it right back to her: > > Amazingly, she then replies: > > Huh? I was not debating her, nor any point she had made. I put my opinions forth in Post 15. I did use the phrase “Time to wake the fuck up” for emphasis, but it was directed at no one in the thread, and was within the rules of the forum. SHE then and throws those words directly at me, then comes back and tells ME to “knock of the swearing”. 😕 > > This is where you come in, **Marley23** , offering the very next postin the exchange. Post 33: > > When I see this, I’m again taken aback. I wasn’t so concerned with the gentle modding, but with the fact that it was directed at me and only me, when I was not the one that started it. So, in Post 62 I say: > > I was hoping that you might have come back and something along the lines, "Yes, that was an oversight. Eva Luna, that admonishment goes for you to, blah, blah… > > But that never came, so I was left to sort it out without you. During the subsequent exchanges, **Eva Luna** accused me of “weaseling”. I showed her that I wasn’t and that SHE was the one weaseling, and (amazingly) calling her a WEASEL in the process. :eek: > > Now we move on to **tomndebb**. He enters the scene with Post 81: > > After he Warns me (as if he’s doing me a favor) for calling her a weasel, he gently admonishes the darling Eva Luna—who first accused me of weaseling—sans Warning: > > **tomndebb** responds in Post 111: > > I then correct what I think he got wrong, and why what he (and Marley23) did was unfair: > > And that brings us full circle to where we are now. Most of the explanation is provided ion the cites along the way, which leaves us with just your last comment: > > We’ve just seen that the admonishment you offered was just, “This isn’t called-for, magellan01. Dial it back.” That does not jive with what you now say you said. So your recollection of your own post is way off or you were lying. I think, hope, it was merely the former. So I look forward to your apology on the front, too. > > The moderation of this board is not fair. Simple as that. I could have with this incident just wash over me, but when combined with others, it gets fucking old. Here, when someone else started it, I’m the only one who gets warned. Another time, via PMs with **tomndebb** , again, I was the one heatedly responding to another poster’s attacks and when that got ratcheted up, we both got warned. In this latest case, I wouldn’t have said boo if we both had been admonished. but we weren’t. And then I was the only one Warned. And in both instances in this latest thread. I was responding to being attacked by another poster. > > So is it possible that you or **tomndebb** will admit to doing something wrong. History says that’s as likely as my cat making a souffle this afternoon. And I don’t have a cat. > > But how about the administration, don’t they give a shit about these boards? And does it escape them that in these things it almost always seems to be the conservative who gets the short end of the stick? Disagree ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/37 "2010-03-25T06:56:14Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t get it. It’s pretty easy to be on the board and never get mod warnings. Just say what you want without trying to insult the other person, without profanity, and making your point in a more or less polite but straightforward manner. I’ll never grok why people can’t leave the personal out of debates. Would you be this rude to someone you were debating with in real life? I nominate this post for a sticky. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/38 "2010-03-25T13:56:03Z")
I was reading the thread yesterday and my first reaction to your first “toots” comment was “Damn he sure doesn’t like it when people correct him!” because you were talking about “anchor babies” when there’s really no such thing these days. This is simply how your comment came off to a passer-by. Her first reply didn’t seem personal at all, just annoyed at seeing the same old tired myth being spread. This is her area of expertise so I can see why she would be annoyed by a misrepresentation of how that particular law works. Whether this was your intention or not, this is how it was perceived by at least one person. Because of my reaction, I felt your first unofficial warning was justified. And because you then behaved like a total jerk in reaction to the unofficial warning, hijacking the thread to stomp and pout I think the official warning was justified. You should have PMed a mod or started the complaint thread here THEN instead of causing a disruption in an otherwise calm conversation about a rather heated topic. Sorry you don’t see it that way, but sometimes we need an outside opinion to see how we’re coming off to others. No offense intended, you seem like a perfectly fine person and I don’t know your posting history at all. This is just based on the one thread. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/39 "2010-03-25T14:16:51Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > No offense intended, you seem like a perfectly fine person and I don’t know your posting history at all. This is just based on the one thread. Know how going in circles makes you dizzy? Remeber what Ferdinand Magellan was known for? That’s how this magellan’s posts come across. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522/40 "2010-03-25T14:23:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > In response to nastiness. It’s an option that I feel is sometimes appropriate. **Eva Luna** did not insult you, and in any case you increased the nastiness in the thread. That’s why I got involved. So the response is usually not appropriate, and it invites the very moderator intervention that you’re complaining about in this thread. > [@magellan01](#): > > And the fact that **Marley** came in and mishandled things (IMO) didn’t help. Inadvertently, his moderating inflamed the situation instead of calming it. It inflamed _you_, not the situation. That’s not quite the same thing. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-shitty-moderation/533522.md?page=3)