# Here we go again...terror alert raised **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851 "2004-08-01T17:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/61 "2004-08-02T19:26:20Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > Be vigilant, be aware of their surroundings and anything that seems odd – unattended packages, people who are acting suspiciously, vehicles sitting where they ought not sit or showing up outside the building too frequently to make sense, panel vans with no windows driving into underground garages, squirrelly looking people buying large quantities of diesel fuel or organic fertilizer. My favorite is the advice that we should report suspicious-looking people. It’s New York - who doesn’t look suspicious? By the way, I work next door to one of the buildings on the threat list. I have the day off today, but getting to work tomorrow should be fun. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/62 "2004-08-02T19:35:13Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > Anyone want to rethink their doomsaying/politicization allegations since this alert is apparently based on information taken off of an arrested al-Qaeda operative’s laptop computer? 1. Some people think the Bush Administration is lying about terror threats for political gain. 2. Bush Administration announces latest terror threat, and adds, “We got information from a laptop!” 3. **TeaElle** ignores the skepticism from #1, implicitly trusts #2, and wonders why people still believe #1. What’s wrong with this picture? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/63 "2004-08-02T20:17:46Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > It may be that this administration is making more politically hay off of the war on terror than is seemly, but I don’t think that they are just making shit up to scare us. For one thing, I am still idealistic enough to believe that the entire government from the top down can’t be that evil. They’ve been working hard to get rid of the honest, decent people. The whistleblowers are gone and marginalized into the “left-wing loony” column. > [@Binarydrone](#): > > For another, the potential for a leek that would cause a scandal the likes of which we have never seen is too great. The possible gain is to out of whack with the potential shitstorm. As right-leaning as the media is, and with all the things they’ve gotten away with so far, I’m astonished that you, anyone, could be so innocent. In other news, I don’t have a link yet, but just heard that Laura Bush and NY Gov. George Pataki toured Citigroup Center today. Citigroup was on yesterday’s terror alert list. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/64 "2004-08-02T20:54:39Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > Anyone want to rethink their doomsaying/politicization allegations since this alert is apparently based on information taken off of an arrested al-Qaeda operative’s laptop computer? > [@](#): > > But U.S. officials told Reuters the raising of the color-coded alert to orange or “high” was not due to the capture of Ghailani… > > “It was a product of (Abu Talha) captured by the Pakistanis,” one U.S. official said. [Capture of Qaeda Suspect Led to U.S. Alert](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=6&u=/nm/20040802/ts_nm/security_alert_usa_dc) Everything that’s been said seems to come from anonymous sources. The question is, are they Sandy Berger type anonymous sources, Valerie Plame type anonymous sources, or Richard Clarke type anonymous sources? Are they telling the truth, or are they lying? The Abu Talha bit appears somewhat fishy: > [@](#): > > Syrian-born Spaniard Muhammad Galeb Kalaje Zouaydi, also known as Abu Talha, was **detained in the Spanish capital** , Madrid. [Spain detains ‘al-Qaeda fundraiser’ (Apr 2002)](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1947317.stm) Is this the same guy? One source lists him as a financier, and another as a communications expert. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/65 "2004-08-02T21:43:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The goal is to prevent the attack, period. Catching the terrorists, breaking their ring, prosecuting them, all must take a back seat to preventing an attack. Nobody is going to let a building full of people be bait in an attempt to catch these guys. If this is the case, that the Administration seeks to disrupt a plot by making a public announcement that it knows about the plot, then we have something akin to shouting into the darkness, “I know you’re out there.” From my understanding of what the Homeland guys are going on (stuff on the computer of some guy in Pakistan that seems to be observations of the four or five sites) there is a fair chance that the stuff we have is a decoy, a diversion, as anything else. I’ll give the Homeland guys one thing. Even if the public announcement doesn’t defeat an ongoing plot it does serve to create the impression that the Homeland guys are doing something. The kid yelling “wolf” at least proved he was out there with the sheep. Here the Homeland guys have proven that they are out there making noise whether there is a basis for the yelling or not. I still don’t understand why in this high stakes poker game we feel compelled to show our hand. I just don’t know how much of this is real security and how much is cynical public relations. I don’t suppose we will have an answer to that for some time. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/66 "2004-08-02T22:22:45Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > The problem is the warnings are based on vague information. Running around and PUBLICLY announcing the terror warnings is counter-productive. > > 1. The information which precipitated the warnings only showed that AQ was listing possible targets. There was no evidence beyond that. > > 2. By going on the news and making these announcements, AQ finds out where their leaks are, and can plug them up. > > 3. By going on the news and telling everyone “these are the buildings which may be targeted, and this is how we will protect them,” we show off our security mechanism, and anyone interested can start checking for weaknesses. > > 4. Wolf! > > If they really wanted us to be protected, we would never hear about these warnings. In all, we are providing a better dry run than any over-active Syrian bladder ever could. This hits the head of the nail _perfectly_. ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/67 "2004-08-02T23:38:28Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > \ > I have seen some talk bandied about the Board about how these terror alerts are somehow coinciding with major “events” associated with the Democratic bid for the Whitehouse. This seems a little more conspiracy theory that I am willing to sign off on, but I will keep an open mind. > \. I was under the impression that talk about attacks being coordinated to specific events began after the bombing in Madrid and the effect it had on the election a few days later (although there is a dispute as to whether or not the bombing made a difference, or if that was the direction the election was heading anyway). Because in the U.S. the election is the next closest “big” event, speculation is centered on it. I believe at least immediately after 9/11, warnings were raised around Christmas and the SuperBowl, primarily because, as such important events in American culture, an attack at those time would be more disruptive. If you accept that the Madrid bombing was designed to influence the election, than speculating that a similar attack could be made on the U.S makes sense. Let’s say there is an attack around the time of the RNC Convention. Regardless of whether the attack is successful or thwarted, the reaction of the U.S. could be a victory for terrorist. At some level, the terrorists win every time the U.S. deviates from its role as the land of the free, when our actions are less than stellar. If, after such an attack or attempt, the election is postponed, or more civil liberties are surrendered, or people riot in the street–it’s a victory for the terrorist, we’ve lost some of what makes us great as a nation. If the election goes on and Bush wins by a landslide and he’s free to bully the world, the terrorists win by getting more recruits. If Kerry wins and manages to get international support and Iraq calms down, the terrorists have still won, because Bush is no longer President. We can argue if either event was caused by the attack, as we have in the Madrid bombing, but it is a possible motive for terrorist activity. Hence, the speculation and the heightened warning levels. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/68 "2004-08-02T23:47:13Z")
> [@Kallessa](#): > > At some level, the terrorists win every time the U.S. deviates from its role as the land of the free, when our actions are less than stellar They’ve already won, because our fucking rights are flying out the window. > [@](#): > > If Kerry wins and manages to get international support and Iraq calms down, the terrorists have still won, because Bush is no longer President. The rest of the world would win too. p.s. they ain’t going to fucking attack during a time when we all expect it, wake up people, they’re just fucking with us. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/69 "2004-08-02T23:58:43Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > 1. Some people think the Bush Administration is lying about terror threats for political gain. > > 2. Bush Administration announces latest terror threat, and adds, “We got information from a laptop!” > > 3. **TeaElle** ignores the skepticism from #1, implicitly trusts #2, and wonders why people still believe #1. > > What’s wrong with this picture? What’s wrong with this picture is that you have absolutely zero evidence about what I ignore or what I implicitly trust. I asked a question. Instead of answering the question, you had to try to smear me with presumption. That says a lot. A simple “no” would’ve sufficied. Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/70 "2004-08-03T00:35:08Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > In other news, I don’t have a link yet, but just heard that Laura Bush and NY Gov. George Pataki toured Citigroup Center today. Citigroup was on yesterday’s terror alert list. Here’s a link: [http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=arj.lT5AAc.s&refer=top\_world\_news](http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=arj.lT5AAc.s&refer=top_world_news) > [@](#): > > **Laura Bush** , wife of U.S. President George W. Bush, appeared this afternoon at **Citigroup Center, one of the targeted buildings** , along with her **twin daughters Barbara and Jenna** , at an event staged for Citigroup workers in the atrium of the 59-story tower, New York’s fifth-tallest building. Mayor Michael Bloomberg and New York Governor George Pataki appeared with her, as they chatted with employees selected to talk with them. > > ``I want to thank people for coming to work,’’ Laura Bush said to questions shouted from reporters. Citigroup is the world’s biggest financial services company, and its Citibank branches are among the most visible U.S. businesses abroad. Am I nuts? Am I totally fucking nuts? Doesn’t anyone else find this bizarre??? ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/71 "2004-08-03T00:45:50Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Here’s a link: [http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=arj.lT5AAc.s&refer=top\_world\_news](http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=arj.lT5AAc.s&refer=top_world_news) > > Am I nuts? Am I totally fucking nuts? Doesn’t anyone else find this bizarre??? And why is that bizarre? That the First Lady and daughters should stand in support of people who work? That she shows confidence in the abilities of the various protective services? Or am I being "whooshed?? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/72 "2004-08-03T01:50:39Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > And why is that bizarre? That the First Lady and daughters should stand in support of people who work? That she shows confidence in the abilities of the various protective services? Or am I being "whooshed?? Well, either president Bush doesn’t give a shit about his wife and daughters and is willing to take the chance that they could be vaporized along with hundreds or thousands of other New Yorkers (which, I admit, would get him a lot of sympathy that would make big bad anti-Bush people look really heartless), or the terror alert was a bunch of crap. Bush knew it, Ridge knew it, everyone in the know knew it, but it still was worth a press conference, front page news, the closing of tunnels and freaking out a few million people. What did he tell his wife and daughters before they went? “It’s ok, don’t worry, there’s no real threat” in which case, I’d ask, WHY THE TERROR ALERT?? Or did he say “You’ll be in danger, I love you, have a good time!” in which case, I’d ask, why would anyone support a man who cares so little about his family? ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/73 "2004-08-03T01:59:20Z")
No, it doesn’t mean either one. Perhaps it simply means, as I speculated, that they are demonstrating courage, confidence in the ability of the police and military, and solidarity with the people. Are you old enough to remember, or have you read about, the British royal family during WWII? Please note I’m not saying the Bush family is royalty, or that this is precisely the same thing, but the King was urged to flee London and move out into the countryside where he and his family would be safer during the frequent German bombings. Or to at least send the children. He refused. They all stayed in London, in order to set an example of courage (literally) under fire and to show that he would not give in. It was, I am told, a source of pride and inspiration to the Londoners. You may also recall that in 2001 when major league baseball resumed after the attacks, that President Bush threw out the first pitch in Yankee stadium. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/74 "2004-08-03T02:02:51Z")
No such thing as courage in your world, hmmm? No such thing as a show of confidence? Maybe he trusts the security with the lives of his family, like he is asking us to do with ourselves? ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/75 "2004-08-03T02:08:29Z")
[Drudge](http://www.drudgereport.com) is saying that the information relating to yesterday’s terror alert was 3-4 years old. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/76 "2004-08-03T02:13:26Z")
[CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/02/terror.threat/index.html) says different. Also, Drudge isn’t saying it; he’s reporting that the NY Times said it. I guess we can all trust the NY Times explicitly, too. It’s not as if the NYT ever had any erroneous reports. Or faked ones. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/77 "2004-08-03T02:16:19Z")
FWIW, the [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/02/politics/02intel.html) also says: > [@](#): > > The unannounced capture of a figure from Al Qaeda in Pakistan several weeks ago led the Central Intelligence Agency to the rich lode of information that prompted the terror alert on Sunday… ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/78 "2004-08-03T02:44:03Z")
> **[THREATS AND RESPONSES: THE OVERVIEW; Reports That Led to Terror Alert Were...](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/03/us/threats-responses-overview-reports-that-led-terror-alert-were-years-old.html)** > > Much of information that prompted heightened terror alert at several large financial institutions in New York City and Washington is three or four years old, with no evidence that terrorist plot or preparatory surveillance operations are still under... > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, Aug. 2 -Much of the information that led the authorities to raise the terror alert at several large financial institutions in the New York City and Washington areas was three or four years old, intelligence and law enforcement officials said on Monday. They reported that they had not yet found concrete evidence that a terror plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under way ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/79 "2004-08-03T02:52:05Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > No, it doesn’t mean either one. Perhaps it simply means, as I speculated, that they are demonstrating courage, confidence in the ability of the police and military, and solidarity with the people. > > Are you old enough to remember, or have you read about, the British royal family during WWII? Please note I’m not saying the Bush family is royalty, or that this is precisely the same thing, but the King was urged to flee London and move out into the countryside where he and his family would be safer during the frequent German bombings. Or to at least send the children. He refused. They all stayed in London, in order to set an example of courage (literally) under fire and to show that he would not give in. It was, I am told, a source of pride and inspiration to the Londoners. > > You may also recall that in 2001 when major league baseball resumed after the attacks, that President Bush threw out the first pitch in Yankee stadium. So, you think there WAS a threat, and think that Bush is brave and true for sending his wife and daughters into a possible fire zone? Well, bully for him in your eyes, I guess. Yes Mehitabel, there is such a thing as courage in my world. I don’t think Laura, Jenna and Barbara going to NY took courage in the face of danger though, because I believe the terror alert of yesterday was bogus and politically motivated, just like the one on Saturday, just like the one on Thursday, just like the next one will be, and the one after that, and the one after that and the one after that. The terrorists WILL strike again, but by then we’ll be so numbed and cynical no one will take the prior terror alert seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/80 "2004-08-03T03:21:41Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > So, you think there WAS a threat, and think that Bush is brave and true for sending his wife and daughters into a possible fire zone? Well, bully for him in your eyes, I guess. This is a terrible cheap shot. Is this yet another example of our President saying “Send anybody but me?” If it is all that brave and courageous a thing to do shouldn’t the President go himself? Should he really send his women folk into harms way while he is off gallivanting around the Midwest? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851.md?page=5)