# Here we go again...terror alert raised **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851 "2004-08-01T17:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/81 "2004-08-03T06:49:18Z")
So the administratioin felt the need to act on intelligence that was 3 to 4 years old in such a public and immediate way the week after the DNC because? To be clear, I don’t think the government is inventing facts out of whole cloth, but I do think that incumbants always use their office to their own advantage and that this administration is doing it to an unprecedented degree. As for how this hurts the Democrats, I think it pushes the convention and the official launch of Kerry’s campaign off the front page, or at least to a lower place on the front page. If this administration isn’t manipulating terror alerts for its own political gains, I think they are still poorly serving the American people with these kind of alarmist announcements. I’m tired of my government jumping everytime Al Qaeda says boo, I think these alerts play into the hands of Bin Laden by keeping the American public on edge. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/82 "2004-08-03T12:33:44Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > Anyone want to rethink their doomsaying/politicization allegations since this alert is apparently based on information taken off of an arrested al-Qaeda operative’s laptop computer? No, because apparently they got that info [THREE YEARS AGO](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5856948&src=rss/topNews§ion=news). Seriously, WTF? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/83 "2004-08-03T12:36:30Z")
> [@black455](#): > > No, because apparently they got that info [THREE YEARS AGO](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5856948&src=rss/topNews§ion=news). > > Seriously, WTF? Because AQ “often carries out plans years later” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/84 "2004-08-03T12:39:13Z")
Here’s an item from [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5581230/) that also stops just short of saying that this terror alert is bullshit, though that’s the clear implication. > [@](#): > > “There is nothing right now that we’re hearing that is new,” said one senior law enforcement official who was briefed on the alert. “Why did we go to this level? . . . I still don’t know that.” > [@](#): > > …[T]he characterization of the age of the intelligence yesterday cast a new light on Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge’s announcement Sunday that the terrorism threat alert for the financial services sectors in the three cities had been raised. Ridge and other officials stressed Sunday the urgency of acting on the newly obtained information, but yesterday a range of officials made clear how dated much of the intelligence was. > [@](#): > > “It’s serious business,” Bush said. “I mean, we wouldn’t be, you know, contacting authorities at the local level unless something was real.” In other words, they found a laptop with some files that show that terrorists were checking out a bunch of potential targets three or four years ago. There’s no evidence that there’s any sort of active plot against those locations now, but the administration decided to pull the fire alarm. They’re either manipulating the situation for political advantage, or they’re morons. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/85 "2004-08-03T12:40:29Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > They’re either manipulating the situation for political advantage, or they’re morons. Take your pick. Both. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/86 "2004-08-03T12:42:51Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Because AQ “often carries out plans years later” :rolleyes: So we should go on high alert, and shut down the financial districts of NY and DC, starting when? And going on for how long? Because terrorists checked out some buildings back in 2000? The adminstration ratcheted up the alert level not because they discovered some new, immediate threat. They did it because they just found evidence of an old threat. Does that actually make sense to anyone? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/87 "2004-08-03T12:44:28Z")
Sorry, **World Eater** , it’s early, and I missed the scarcasm of your post. My point remains, of course, but directed at those who still believe that it’s a reasonable justification. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/88 "2004-08-03T12:44:54Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > So we should go on high alert, and shut down the financial districts of NY and DC, starting when? And going on for how long? Because terrorists checked out some buildings back in 2000? I guess 'ol rolleyes didn’t come across, I’m 100% with you on this. That’s what they pubs were saying. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/89 "2004-08-03T12:46:55Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > So we should go on high alert, and shut down the financial districts of NY and DC, starting when? And going on for how long? Because terrorists checked out some buildings back in 2000? I guess 'ol rolleyes didn’t come across, I’m 100% with you on this. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/90 "2004-08-03T12:48:27Z")
It would be fair to say that new terror information should be disseminated to the public, but when Bush comes out and says how this new warning is “a serious reminder … a _solemn_ reminder” how we are all in grave danger, then it turns out that the info is so damn old … Can any of you Bush apologistas explain the timing of the announcement here? Coincidence, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/91 "2004-08-03T12:51:53Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So the administratioin felt the need to act on intelligence that was 3 to 4 years old in such a public and immediate way the week after the DNC because? Because they’re fucking idiots. My prior comments were valid only if there was evidence of an _actual_ plot that is nearing completion, not evidence of 3-4 year old research on some buildings, with no current information to back it up. This sort of evidence deserves attention, to be sure, but not front page headlines and national news. Account for this in your security arrangements for these buildings and cities. Mention in your press conference (if you deem one necessary) that this is old data, but you will incorporate it in your plans. Don’t act like the truck bomb is cruising through the Holland Tunnel this very minute. :rolleyes: Since it’s getting out that this info is pre-9/11, the Administration is looking pretty stupid over it. Well, **I** think they’re pretty stupid, and that’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/92 "2004-08-03T14:10:44Z")
I wonder if there was also other intelligence found about surveillance of the Pentagon and the Towers, that just wasn’t brought up this time around. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/93 "2004-08-03T14:27:10Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > I wonder if there was also other intelligence found about surveillance of the Pentagon and the Towers, that just wasn’t brought up this time around. No, I’m sure if they found some, WE’D KNOW ALL ABOUT IT! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/94 "2004-08-03T14:34:29Z")
> [@black455](#): > > No, because apparently they got that info [THREE YEARS AGO](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5856948&src=rss/topNews§ion=news). > > Seriously, WTF? [Cite.](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/) > [@](#): > > Mohammed initially proposed the attacks in 1996, but planning did not begin until 1999. Three years before the event, dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/95 "2004-08-03T14:40:45Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > Anyone want to rethink their doomsaying/politicization allegations since this alert is apparently based on information taken off of an arrested al-Qaeda operative’s laptop computer? [Terror attack warning old news](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3530358.stm) > [@](#): > > The US administration admits that new warnings of attacks on American cities were based on information gathered by al-Qaeda up to four years ago. Not really - point proven in my mind. > [@](#): > > Homeland security adviser Frances Townsend said some of the information recovered was collected in 2000/2001. > > But she said some may have been updated “as recently as January of this year.” It’s the wuluf, it’s the wuluf! No really! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/96 "2004-08-03T14:44:52Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > [Terror attack warning old news](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3530358.stm) > > Not really - point proven in my mind. > > It’s the wuluf, it’s the wuluf! No really! Note to self - don’t leave reply open half the day without checking for updates. Sorry for repeating what’s been pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/97 "2004-08-03T15:04:17Z")
[Updated back in January](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&u=/latimests/20040803/ts_latimes/freshdetailsbackthreats&printer=1). To me, this says AQ considers this still a viable target. They have recently updated the information they gathered 3-4 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/98 "2004-08-03T15:04:54Z")
Brutus, I don’t think anyone really believes that they don’t take years to plan an event like this. However, shouldn’t we have some evidence that an attack is currently being planned before searching trucks, closing roads and changing our alert level? Three year old info with no evidence of ongoing plans is just another data point, not something to go nuts over. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/99 "2004-08-03T15:17:00Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > [Updated back in January](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&u=/latimests/20040803/ts_latimes/freshdetailsbackthreats&printer=1). > > To me, this says AQ considers this still a viable target. They have recently updated the information they gathered 3-4 years ago. To me, this says that they _don’t_ consider it a viable target. At most, it says that a whole bunch of targets are still on their “someday, maybe” list. If they were seriously planning an attack any time in the near future, they’d be updating their intelligence _now_. The fact that they haven’t done anything about it in over seven months suggests to me that there’s no immediate threat at all. On top of that, the info that was updated in January was on only one of the targets, and even that update couldn’t be shown to be coming from active intelligence gathering by al Qaida. The info for the rest of the buildings apparently hasn’t been touched in years. ---
**Author:** ![seriousart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@seriousart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seriousart)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851/100 "2004-08-03T15:23:46Z")
Haven’t seen much talk about this on the boards (or in the media) but the capture of Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, a Tanzanian Al Qaeda operative announced on the day Kerry was to speak panned out exactly like it was predicted by the New Republic: > [@](#): > > A few weeks before the Democratic National Convention, The New Republic ran a story alleging that senior Pakistani intelligence officials were pressured by members of the Bush administration to make arrests of so-called high valued terrorists during the Democratic National Convention in an attempt to boost Bush’s standing in the polls during a time when John Kerry, the Democratic Presidential nominee, would have likely received a bounce in percentage points for his campaign. > > The July 7 article, “July Surprise”, said a Pakistani official was told by a White House aid “that it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July.’ – the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston ." > > That event actually occurred on July 29 when Reuters reported that an unidentified U.S. official confirmed that Pakistan arrested “a senior al Qaeda member wanted by the United States in connection with the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in East Africa” all of which lends credibility to the fact that the White House will do whatever it has to do to make sure Bush is reelected. See the article I quoted this from here: [http://www.opednews.com/leopold\_080204\_alerts.htm](http://www.opednews.com/leopold_080204_alerts.htm) Or find the original New Republic article here: [http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904](http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904) So given the highly suspicious coinciding of events, what makes it seem unlikely that Bush and friends would blow the current terror alert information out of proportion to distract the media and public from the Democrats post-convention afterglow? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-terror-alert-raised/257851.md?page=6)