Here we go again...terror alert raised

[black_rabbit]

@Brutus

Cite.

Three years before the event,

???

I seem to recall talk of, you know, actual evidence between 1999 and 2001 that something was imminent.

You know, all that chatter about Arabs taking flying lessons, but not caring how to land? Richard Clarke? Ring a bell? All that shit your boy ignored?

This time, they’ve got nothing but old info, yet still felt compelled to ratchet up the panic level a lil’ bit. I’m sure it’s entirely coincidental that they had to get this info out the weekend after the Convention.

dipshit.

Thanks, snookums. While you’re being so expressive, please point out where I said that AQ doesn’t plan for anything in advance.

Hell, I bet they’re planning something right now. Kindly set your personal terror advisory color to red, and go hide under your desk for the next three months or so.

[elucidator]

Well, you can go on and on about how pointless an excercise all this terror mongering is, but you ignore one crucial fact, delivered with straight-faced aplomb, as noted above.

Our dauntless progress in the War on Terror (over 75% of Al Q neutralized! We’ve got rock-solid rumors and unimpeachable hints…) is due entirely to GeeDubya (Praise the Leader!) We would never be in such an excellent position if it were not for the sheer brilliance and perspicacity of the Shining One!

Naysayers and defeatists niggle about Pakistan’s adventures in nuclear entrepeurship, despite the clear truth that Pakistan is the most democratic and progressive military dictatorship in the ME! And look how they are embracing the solid principles of market capitalism! How carefully they examine their bread, and, after ascertaining which side is buttered, sell out to the highest bidder!

This is the very foundation of our program for civilizing the ME! The enemy deals in intangibles and ideology, offering naught but an opportunity to die for a (presumably) noble cause, whereas we offer cold, hard cash! Whereas our enemies seek to corrupt young minds by appeals to a false and infamous religion, we offer the benefices of the One True Almighty Dollar! They offer the nihilism and corruption of Allah, we offer Moloch, they offer Paradise, we offer Tupperware.

How can anyone doubt the faithful and noble loyalty of Pakistan, the True Blue Eaudy Cologny of the ME! Only The Leader could see this shining truth, only he could blithely overlook the minor misdemeanors and petty indiscretions to see through to the essential truth: the birth of the entreprenuerial spirit!

And this is but one example of the depth and range of The Leader’s thinking! As Mr. Ridge so aptly pointed out, without him our cause is lost! A vote for Kerry is a vote for Osama, no further debate is possible, it couldn’t be clearer. And yet the carpers and naysayers, the natter nabobs of negativism, pile on, making wild accusations of political partisanship.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Leader is above partisan politics, only those who seek to undermine his truth (hmmmmm…should that be “His truth”? Perhaps not just yet…) indulge in partisan politics!

[Mojo]

Christ, I can’t believe how stupid your anti-Bush venom has made some of you. I work at the World Bank and can tell you that a) there’s plenty of people here who don’t like Bush as president, and b) they’re taking this warning very seriously. In my building alone they’ve closed off two of the entrances, instituted new ID checking policies, and posted an armed guard outside. And we’re not even the main building. My understanding is that they just recently found detailed plans originally dating back 3-4 years with very specific details about the buildings in question- layouts, peak crowd hours, security habits, etc… and that these plans had been updated within the last 3 months. In addition to that there has been increased chatter. So you’ve got detailed plans that are past the exploratory stage, somewhat recent updates, and a general increase in communication. My guess is that when Homeland Security put this all together they realized that for all they knew this could be underway right now and, rather than take a chance on a massive terrorist attack on the financial sector that would have devastating economic repurcussions, they decided to release the info in the form of a warning to prevent it.

Even without the actual attack just the act of releasing info and warnings about a terrorist attack on the financial sector has economic repurcussions- do you really think that if Dubya (or Rove, or the Neocons, or whatever bogeyman you want to pin this crap on) would throw a scare into the economy in an election year?

I’m really sick of the “Bush lied about WMDs so it’s not my fault if I believe any stupid conspiracy theory that comes down the pike” shtick.

[World_Eater]

@Mojo

do you really think that if Dubya (or Rove, or the Neocons, or whatever bogeyman you want to pin this crap on) would throw a scare into the economy in an election year?

Sure why not? If the economy is fucked up guess who they’ll blame?

I’m really sick of the “Bush lied about WMDs so it’s not my fault if I believe any stupid conspiracy theory that comes down the pike” shtick.

It’s more like, Bush has already lied about a few things, why should we believe him this?

[World_Eater]

For PC purposes, allow me to correct myself. :rolleyes:

Bush has exaggerated things, or been misinformed about things, so why is it “insane” to think he’s exaggerating/misinformed on this current threat?

[Early_Out]

@Mojo

I work at the World Bank and can tell you that … they’re taking this warning very seriously. In my building alone they’ve closed off two of the entrances, instituted new ID checking policies, and posted an armed guard outside. And we’re not even the main building.

Just because the herd has been stampeded does not indicate that there’s any real danger.

My understanding is that … these plans had been updated within the last 3 months.

I may have missed it, but I haven’t seen any indication that this is true. At most, the plans for one of the mentioned targets was updated over seven months ago, and there’s no evidence that AQ are actively working on the plans, even for that one possible target.

In addition to that there has been increased chatter.

In the absence of any specific, recent information about a potential target, that chatter could be about almost anything - an attack in Saudi Arabia, a plan to grab some more hostages in Iraq, an assault on a train in England, etc., etc. There’s no reason to believe that the chatter relates to these particular four-year-old plans.

Even without the actual attack just the act of releasing info and warnings about a terrorist attack on the financial sector has economic repurcussions- do you really think that if Dubya (or Rove, or the Neocons, or whatever bogeyman you want to pin this crap on) would throw a scare into the economy in an election year?

The economic affects are minor and temporary. Scaring the electorate, and making Bush and his administration look like they’re protecting us from the bogeyman, would more than compensate for it.

[SmackFu]

I have this weird hunch that these planing documents are just files in some guy’s computer directory, and they’re just looking at the file dates. The “recently updated” one just has a newer date. Maybe the guy opened it up and said save rather than cancel by example.

[Mojo]

@World Eater

Sure why not? If the economy is fucked up guess who they’ll blame?

And guess who the voters blame for a shitty economy? And guess what they’ll do?

It’s more like, Bush has already lied about a few things, why should we believe him this?

Cus the preponderance of evidence supports it?

@EarlyOut

The economic affects are minor and temporary. Scaring the electorate, and making Bush and his administration look like they’re protecting us from the bogeyman, would more than compensate for it.

I still fail to see how this threat works in Bush’s favor. If the attack never occurs most people will think “boy who cried wolf” more than “what a great job Bush is doing- the attack was thwarted!” Even the most die-hard Bush fans I know don’t think Homeland Security saved us from an attack by the Al-Qaeda frogmen. :rolleyes:

[World_Eater]

@Mojo

And guess who the voters blame for a shitty economy? And guess what they’ll do?

Blame AQ, the vote for Bush. What did you think they’ll do?

Cus the preponderance of evidence supports it?

Keep up pokey, I amended my statement. Do you disagree that Bush has exagerrated events, or has been misinformed?

I still fail to see how this threat works in Bush’s favor.

Simple, they create a false environment of fear and “protect” us from it, which makes him look like he’s doing something.

[Mojo]

@World Eater

Blame AQ, the vote for Bush. What did you think they’ll do?

My personal experience is that if the economy is in the shitter they’ll vote Bush (or anyone for that matter) out of office. It’s the economy, stupid.*

Keep up pokey, I amended my statement. Do you disagree that Bush has exagerrated events, or has been misinformed?

No, but do you have any evidence that he’s doing so in this case? Isn’t this supporting my “Bush lied about WMDs so it’s not my fault if I believe any stupid conspiracy theory that comes down the pike” assertion?

Simple, they create a false environment of fear and “protect” us from it, which makes him look like he’s doing something.

Once again the stakes are high (fucking up the economy 3 months before the election) and the supposed payoff is questionable at best.
[sub]*not actually calling you stupid.[/sub]

[Squink]

@Mojo

Once again the stakes are high (fucking up the economy 3 months before the election) and the supposed payoff is questionable at best.

You may be granting team-Bush more credit for forsight than they actually deserve. For example, who could have predicted that we’d be forced to raise the ceiling on our national debt mere weeks before the November elections? Team Bush, that’s who. They could have predicted that. They could have avoided the obvious political consequences for themselves by taking care of this early. They didn’t.

US Treasury Secretary John Snow has urged Congress to raise the government’s debt ceiling, or face a cash crunch in the autumn.
He warned that Washington was on track to breach the current limit of $7.4 trillion in late September.
If the ceiling is not raised, “we can finance government operations no longer than mid-to-late November,” he said.

[World_Eater]

Crap, my long post was eaten.

@Mojo

My personal experience is that if the economy is in the shitter they’ll vote Bush (or anyone for that matter) out of office. It’s the economy, stupid.*

Traditionally I’d agree with you, but I feel that’s no longer the case. AQ makes a mighty nice scapegoat for several potential problems, and I don’t have any doubt the public would swallow any spin, hook, line, and sinker.

No, but do you have any evidence that he’s doing so in this case? Isn’t this supporting my “Bush lied about WMDs so it’s not my fault if I believe any stupid conspiracy theory that comes down the pike” assertion?

Doing what in this case? The guy played fast and loose with facts before, why shouldn’t we view statements and actions from the admin with a jaundiced eye? The real question is why the hell should people trust him after all we’ve been through?

Once again the stakes are high (fucking up the economy 3 months before the election) and the supposed payoff is questionable at best.

Because it’s all give and take. Sure, he loses some people because they feel the economy is going down the crapper, but, he’s getting the same number back, plus more, with him being this securing the country guy.

I’m sure his people have crunched the numbers and found out that “security” is more important to voters then “economy”.

[sub]*not actually calling you stupid.[/sub]
[/QUOTE]

[World_Eater]

p.s. I knew you weren’t calling me stupid, I’ve heard the saying once or twice before.

[New_Iskander]

How about the following scenario:

Everyone remembers 3-11 in Madrid. It happened few days before Spanish highly contended election where a socialist was running against incumbent conservative, I believe. There was a lot of speculation how it influenced election results.

What if the incumbent would get some info about big terror act coming and announce it? What if armed police was posted everywhere just before the election? What if terror act were prevented? How would all that influenced the election?

Why are we even talking about such things?

[Spavined_Gelding]

New, the present hullabaloo is not based on some generalized idea that the Jahadists are likely to blow something up between now and the general election. That view would, if logically extended to the point of ridiculousness, support closing down the whole country and have everybody hide under the bed until November 3. Rather the present alert is supposedly based on credible evidence. It is starting to look as if the credible evidence is in fact old news. If it is old news then it is difficult to ascribe a good faith, legitimate explanation to the present heightened alert.

[Kallessa]

Originally posted by elucidator
. . . the carpers and naysayers, the natter nabobs of negativism . . .

Oh, the memories you’ve brought back to me. As a child just learning about politics, having my beliefs shaped, my attitude developed, my whole way of relating to the American political process . . . well, this quote encapsulates the whole period. It’s good to know that words like this are not lost.

[elucidator]

“truculent troglodytes…pusillanimous pussyfooters…” Good ol’ Spiro Agnew.

[anecdote]

I was a devoted fan of Pogo, Walt Kelly’s zen possum, the precursor to Doonesbury…Kelly had a habit of drawing political figures into his strips as some sort of animal (McCarthy was a badger, if memory serves, that sort of thing…)

Anyway, Nixon ordered up some white uniforms for his White House Guard, silliest damn things you ever saw. So Kelly brings in an Agnew character, who speaks in asinine alliteration, as above, and is portrayed as a canine, dressed in one of these comic-opera uniforms. Devastating stuff for its time, warmed my radical little heart, somebody is on our side.

So, some guy wrote a letter-to-the-editor for the local paper bitching about Kelly portraying Agnew as a dog, disrespectful of the man and more importantly the office yadda-blah-yadda-blah.

About a week later a letter from a zoologist at the U of MN appeared, correcting the previous letter in dry academic prose. Due to the distinctive shape of the muzzle, and the very precise rendering of the ears, it was clear that the animal used to characterize Agnew wasn’t, in fact, a dog, but a jackal.

[/anecdote]

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Walt Kelly was a genius.

[elucidator]

Hope he likes Heaven.

[wring]

@New Iskander

What if the incumbent would get some info about big terror act coming and announce it? What if armed police was posted everywhere just before the election? What if terror act were prevented? How would all that influenced the election?

and the beauty of that, of course, is that there wouldn’t really have to be a ‘big terror act’. Why the incumbant could just announce that they’d thwarted such an attack, and toss out evidence like, say computer records they’d had for several months/years, whispers from folks who’d been interrogated since 2002, and reports from friendly countries, that we’d believed were right, but lo and behold after the election, we’d find out tragically, that our leaders had been misled !

(please see in the background John Belushi as Bluto in Animal House when they’re discussing how Flounder can explain to his brother what happened to the car). “It’s gotta work better than the truth”