# Here's another Reason Not To Live In Texas. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084 "2005-12-11T01:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/41 "2005-12-11T18:53:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I think I’ve mentioned it before on this board, but it amazes me that many people don’t consider these police officers to be actual police officers. The same attitude is applied to university police departments. I can’t speak to the problem with the DART officers, but my own university experience leads me to suspect that the confusion arises from the misapprehension that “actual” police officers would appear “competent” or “effective.” _“Yes, officer, I realize it’s late at night, but I am in fact a biology major leaving the Biology building; therefore, I would please ask you to open that container inside the building rather than right now, as it does indeed contain a three-inch-long live specimen of Lethocerus americanus (better known as the Giant Toe-Biter), rather than crystal meth as you seem to believe.”_ (Although, honestly, his girlish scream of horror when that thing flew out at his face made the escape of the specimen entirely worthwhile. His partner just about died laughing. Ahh, good times.) ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/42 "2005-12-11T19:59:29Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Wow. > > This was rather like a grenade. > > My dislike of Texas’ insitutions is secondary to the link in the original post. Well, it’s never too late. We can turn this into a discussion of _“Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?”_ if you would prefer, give the DART’s alleged refusal to issue a comment on this. I’ve been careless about hijacking threads lately, and it’s time I put an end to it, so you decide. It was just your last line in the OP that may have derailed this thread. Oh, and the thread title, too… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/43 "2005-12-11T20:07:38Z")
Isn’t it standard procedure that a government agency not issue statements on the particulars of a pending disciplinary case? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/44 "2005-12-11T20:28:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Isn’t it standard procedure that a government agency not issue statements on the particulars of a pending disciplinary case? There is no evidence of any kind to suggest that disciplinary procedures are under way, or, indeed, even being considered. (Should that be; “under way, **n** or, indeed,”?) And most organizations issue some form of non-committal blanket statement, that makes it clear things are being looked into, without accusing anybody of anything. DART isn’t even answering the phone, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/45 "2005-12-11T21:22:16Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > I can’t speak to the problem with the DART officers, but my own university experience leads me to suspect that the confusion arises from the misapprehension that “actual” police officers would appear “competent” or “effective.” > > _“Yes, officer, I realize it’s late at night, but I am in fact a biology major leaving the Biology building; therefore, I would please ask you to open that container inside the building rather than right now, as it does indeed contain a three-inch-long live specimen of Lethocerus americanus (better known as the Giant Toe-Biter), rather than crystal meth as you seem to believe.”_ > > (Although, honestly, his girlish scream of horror when that thing flew out at his face made the escape of the specimen entirely worthwhile. His partner just about died laughing. Ahh, good times.) Dear God. That is one ugly bug. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/46 "2005-12-11T22:24:59Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Yes, Dallas has a law enforcement agency that is accountable to **nobody** , and can beat the piss out of you **and** your child, _in front of **witnesses** _ & get away with it. > > Texans are not civilized people. I’ve seen Chicago cops kick the shit out of people numerous times, and toss them in the paddy wagon like a lump of meat. But I never saw a story about it in the papers or on the news, not even once. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/47 "2005-12-11T22:54:32Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > I’ve seen Chicago cops kick the shit out of people numerous times, and toss them in the paddy wagon like a lump of meat. But I never saw a story about it in the papers or on the news, not even once. Sounds like Chicago needs to be immediately divorced from the union and forced to join a second rate country like Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/48 "2005-12-11T23:03:05Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > I’ve seen Chicago cops kick the shit out of people numerous times, and toss them in the paddy wagon like a lump of meat. But I never saw a story about it in the papers or on the news, not even once. That does sound pretty horrifying. Did the people at the papers and other news outlets ever give a reason why they didn’t follow up with a story, after you reported these events to them? Which newspapers did you call? The SDMB is affiliated with the _Chicago Reader_, correct? Were they one of the news outlets you tried to contact? What were the circumstances surrounding these multiple instances of police brutality? Were any charges ever filed? I myself am no journalist, but your capsule description sounds like it might well form the basis for a gem of a story, and possibly help out a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/49 "2005-12-11T23:42:16Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > I myself am no journalist, but your capsule description sounds like it might well form the basis for a gem of a story, and possibly help out a lot of people. It’s amazing how long situations like this can be an “open secret” without anything being done about it. Here in Vancouver, the cops had way of keeping the downtown strip and posher areas “clean” – they’d pick people up (with no paperwork or accusation,) drive them to a remote area, and beat the shit out of them. Everything apart from the actual beatings was open policy. This was “supposed” to be reserved for shit-disturbers and suspected drug dealers, but ended up being applied pretty much on a whim – especially to people who looked gay or otherwise “alternative.” I’ve been picked up with a friend off Granville street, walking the short distance (a couple of blocks) from the Skytrain station to the theatres, manhandled, given a bunch of doubletalk about how we were “interfering with a police investigation” (by walking South on the most densely populated street in Vancouver, I guess) loaded into a paddy wagon, and dumped across town in Stanley Park. It’s the sort of thing you could expect if you want to see a movie a happen to look a bit punk or a bit queer. If we’d given them any lip, you can bet your ass it would have gotten a lot nastier. Everybody knew what was going on – there’s even a name for the practice. The “Moonlight drive.” It didn’t become newsworthy until a few people died from cop-delivered beatings. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/50 "2005-12-11T23:55:16Z")
Let’s face facts: Cops have a very difficult, dangerous, stressful job. This means they are going to develop a certain attitude of contempt and disdain for people who are not like them and their fellow law-enforcement professionals. Occasionally, they’re going to act out against these people, forgetting that these too are citizens whom they’ve sworn to protect and serve. It’s going to happen. It’s in the nature of the job. What we as citizens have to demand is that when a cop acts out against a citizen for no good reason, that that cop and the force s/he is a part of be held accountable and disciplined accordingly. I’ve had one encounter in NYC that, while not nearly so blatant as the one in Dallas, illustrates the principle and how one person can respond. I’ll post about it if people would like to know. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/51 "2005-12-12T00:06:30Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > That does sound pretty horrifying. Did the people at the papers and other news outlets ever give a reason why they didn’t follow up with a story, after you reported these events to them? I saw a brutal fight between two people outside the Chicago stadium a couple years ago. I got involved, I ran over the cop standing on the corner and informed him of the ugly brawl going on. He looked down his nose at me, kind of looked me up and down and said, “If they need me there, they will give me a call”, then kind of glared at me as if I was causing trouble. You really have to live there a couple years to get the full effect. But generally, the way it goes, with most city cops I have encountered in big cities, you have to ask them a couple times to kick your ass before they oblige. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/52 "2005-12-12T00:09:01Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > What we as citizens have to demand is that when a cop acts out against a citizen for no good reason, that that cop and the force s/he is a part of be held accountable and disciplined accordingly. > > I’ve had one encounter in NYC that, while not nearly so blatant as the one in Dallas, illustrates the principle and how one person can respond. I’ll post about it if people would like to know. Please, by all means post when you can; I am curious. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/53 "2005-12-12T00:13:25Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > I got involved, I ran over the cop standing on the corner LOL, no I didn’t “run over” the cop, I “ran over TO him”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/54 "2005-12-12T00:47:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [From the DART website](http://www.dart.org/DARTPolice.asp): > I think I’ve mentioned it before on this board, but it amazes me that many people don’t consider these police officers to be actual police officers. The same attitude is applied to university police departments. I haven’t been in Texas for years - I lived in Fort Worth for a few years, and didn’t know anything about DART police, so I was fuzzy as to whether they were police or some sort of private security. That the accusers version and the police version differ doesn’t surprise me. Even if both sides are telling the truth, they are only telling it as they see it. Perception is everything. However, it’s possible that one side or the other (or both) are full of shit too. Most cops are decent enough folks, but every department has a few jerks who need to be dismissed. That’s a simple fact. Texas or NY or California, makes no difference. If there were no bad ones at all, nobody would need Internal Affairs. I’ll still say it again. If there is sufficient evidence and witness testimony to press charges, then it should be done. If they are guilty, they should be fired and face criminal charges. Gawd totalled up 4 people who say that the police were out of line. On the other hand, we have the police report. > [@Gawd](#): > > ]On one hand we have 2 civilians with matching stories, backed up by the independent recollections of 2 uninvolved civilians. On the other hand, there is the factually incorrect report given by DART. > > In my experience, the more out of line a police officer is on an arrest, the more incorrect his report is. It is also liable to be full of holes and missing information-just like the officers in this case who are neglecting to mention the 14 year old’s presence at all. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/55 "2005-12-12T03:44:35Z")
Ahh. After attending a party this weekend that was broken up (with nothing illegal going on) by two quite assholish cops, and coming home to find a random cop car parked in my reserved parking space, this story is just the thing to warm my heart. Think I’ll blast some Body Count on the stereo and pour myself a tall mug of Arrogant Bastard ale, in honor of our hardworking boys in blue. Texas cops can suck it. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/56 "2005-12-12T05:12:42Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > And frankly, even states as benighted as my own, Georgia, gave up lynchings way back in the 50s. What’s your excuse? Oh, that’s right. You have none. Really? You might want to check out what [Human Rights Watch](http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo41.htm) has to say about Georgia. **Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor** , while I agree with you that what they did should be investigated and if they are proven guilty they should be held accountable, but pitting Texas as a whole (as if the rest of us had a choice in the matter) is absurd. Leave the rest of us out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/57 "2005-12-12T13:04:05Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > Really? You might want to check out what [Human Rights Watch](http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo41.htm) has to say about Georgia. > > **Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor** , while I agree with you that what they did should be investigated and if they are proven guilty they should be held accountable, but pitting Texas as a whole (as if the rest of us had a choice in the matter) is absurd. Leave the rest of us out of it. I’ll be happy to. Are you writing a letter to your editor? Hmm? Just a little letter to your Texas newspaper editor? Hmm? Just a little one? To let him know you don’t approve? Hmm? Don’t approve of this sort of thing happening in Texas? Hmmm? Or your State Legislator? Hmm? The big, loud man in the cowboy hat who hands out barbecue around election day? Writing a letter of complaint? Hmmm? To him? A liitle letter? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/58 "2005-12-12T13:25:37Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Are you writing a letter to your editor? Hmm? Just a little letter to your Texas newspaper editor? Hmm? Just a little one? To let him know you don’t approve? Like the Dallas Observer? Hmm? That one? The one you started your OP by linking? Like them, you mean? Aren’t they Texan? Hmm? Just a little bit? Hmm? Sensed the approval oozing from their story, did you? Eh? Thought it was a puff piece for the cops, did you? Write to your governor all the time, do you? Every time you see a story about bad cops? Hmm? Regular Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells, are we? Hmm? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/59 "2005-12-12T13:46:40Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Like the Dallas Observer? Hmm? That one? The one you started your OP by linking? Like them, you mean? Aren’t they Texan? Hmm? Just a little bit? Hmm? Sensed the approval oozing from their story, did you? Eh? Thought it was a puff piece for the cops, did you? Write to your governor all the time, do you? Every time you see a story about bad cops? Hmm? Regular Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells, are we? Hmm? > > Sheesh. Mostly, I advocated it because for every **one** letter of complaint in the paper, **25,000** citizens are POed about the issue, more or less. A rough estimate, but it’s not unlikely the politicians make similar estimates. Tools for change are where you find em, **Badger**. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084/60 "2005-12-12T15:17:25Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Mostly, I advocated it because for every **one** letter of complaint in the paper, **25,000** citizens are POed about the issue, more or less. A rough estimate, but it’s not unlikely the politicians make similar estimates. Tools for change are where you find em, **Badger**. No, you quite transparently “advocated” it as part of your continuing quest to try and piss on Texans, and to imply that **gooftroopag** wasn’t doing enough to exonerate himself from said quest. But thanks for the heartwarming civics glurge. Twenty-five _thousand_, eh? Gosh. On the other hand, you really ought to make this advocacy group of yours official, with you at its head. Tools For Change, indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-another-reason-not-to-live-in-texas/335084.md?page=4)