# Here's my answer to you MeanOldLady. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972 "2002-12-26T15:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/21 "2002-12-26T20:46:43Z")
Go gettem, **Biggirl**! IMHO, it’s all good and fine to express opinions, but to tell other people that they are wrong simply because their opinions don’t agree with yours is ignorant! IOW, if I say “I despise Eminem, and don’t really understand what his fans see in him”, is fine. To say, “I despise Eminem, and anyone who actually LIKES that crap must have a below-70 IQ”, is not fine. In the thread referred to in the OP, MOL kept saying “I don’t really care what you like”, but right on the heels of that, she’s saying “but if you like the crap MTV plays, you must be dumb!” Even if she doesn’t come right out with it, the attitude is there for all the world to see, and I’m glad to see her called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/22 "2002-12-26T20:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*I don’t think you are being fair with your statements. It seems like you are assuming that everyone in an age bracket has similar musical knowledge. This is not true. This is “ageism”. I don’t care how old someone is, if all they have ever listened to is country, then I am not going to listen to whatever they have to say about rap. Ignorance is ignorance, it’s not exclusive to a certain age. Not everyone listens to all types of music either. Experience is also limited to a variety of other factors that have nothing to do with age. > > A person’s opinion on what makes good music is as equal to anyone else’s opinion on what makes good music. Just because you are older than her, doesn’t mean your musical taste is any better. > > As for “MeanOldLady”, I don’t think her age is any excuse. \*\* I didn’t say or even mean to imply that my taste were better because I’ve listened to more music than someone half my age or even my same age. My point is that at age 19 the rule is that you haven’t experienced much in life and there are always exceptions to the rule. I’m allowing for the exception, but the rule is still valid. Ignorance is the absence of knowledge or experience and happens for a lot of reasons, having not gotten there yet is usually the primary one. The least time you have on the planet the more ignorant you’re going to be of what’s going on with the planet, though other reasons will also contribute. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/23 "2002-12-26T21:14:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EasyPhil \* > \*\*I didn’t say or even mean to imply that my taste were better because I’ve listened to more music than someone half my age or even my same age. My point is that at age 19 the rule is that you haven’t experienced much in life and there are always exceptions to the rule. I’m allowing for the exception, but the rule is still valid. Ignorance is the absence of knowledge or experience and happens for a lot of reasons, having not gotten there yet is usually the primary one. The least time you have on the planet the more ignorant you’re going to be of what’s going on with the planet, though other reasons will also contribute. \*\* I understand what you are saying; on the face of it, it looks wrong. However you did preface the statement that their are exceptions. I suppose my concern is that when I looked at it originally your statements seemed as though you were saying that by merely being older, you can have more experience-which is not true. I saw the word “limited” to be condescending. Also I wanted to try to make the point that she shouldn’t get to use her age as an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/24 "2002-12-26T21:45:29Z")
Oh, yeah, no, I don’t think there’s much ground to criticize **MeanOldLady** merely for her _use_ of the word ‘colored,’ and **Lux Fiat** did use it first, sort of. It was the sentence that contained the word that was crushingly ignorant. The fact that she thought she could judge **Biggirl** ’s race through a few posts on a message board. Shocking. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/25 "2002-12-26T21:51:44Z")
Personally, I think it’s hilarious that, after coming out with this: > [@](#): > > Aggghh! Eminem does not put a new spin on anything! He’s not original, fresh, cutting edge or insightful! All he does is flap! And Nelly? Nelly?! Gah, he’s cheesy pop just like Justin whatshisface. Sure, he’s got some catchy beats and stuff, but his lyrics suck. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO LYRICAL CONTENT, PEOPLE?! JESUS H. CHRIST, LYRICS!!! **MeanOldLady** feels the need to tell you: > [@](#): > > Anyway, you need to simmer down, Biggirl. I don’t know why I found this quite as amusing as I did. It’s the simple things, really… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/26 "2002-12-26T22:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Wrong Girl \* > \*\*Personally, I think it’s hilarious that, after coming out with this: > > **MeanOldLady** feels the need to tell you: > > I don’t know why I found this quite as amusing as I did. It’s the simple things, really… 😉 \*\* I found it hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/27 "2002-12-26T22:42:09Z")
Oh give me a freaking break! I got your point already. I’m just not too fond of people sayig that hip hop music is all about rhythm and not so much kyrics. That is just plain false. I understand that you like Nelly b/c he’s great for shaking your arse to, but not all hip hop music is the same. There’s more than one form of rap music, you know. It’s not _all_ the same. Can you honestly pick up a KRS-ONE CD or some Common and tell me the music isn’t about the lyrics? That’s why KRS and Common are so great now. Because of the incredible things they had/have, not the rhythms. When people talk Nelly, they’re talking parties and major ass shaking. When people talk KRS, they’re talking politics, philosophy and race relations. Do you see the distinction? So you can keep your _opinion_ about Nelly being a great “artist” if you like. My point is I disagree and just b/c he and a lot of other popular artists bank off their catchy beats doesn’t mean everyone else is the same. Two more things before I go. 1. I was saying “colored” in response to someone else’s post. I also happen to be “colored.” 2. Thanks for making this board. I’ve never had one dedicated to me. I feel special. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/28 "2002-12-26T22:46:01Z")
And who said I didn’t know **Lux** was being sarcastic? I wasn’t commenting on what he had to say, I was just wondering where he got the idea **Biggirl** colored from. Whoops, did I say that God awful ‘c’ word again? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/29 "2002-12-26T22:47:27Z")
Grrr. Botched tags again! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/30 "2002-12-26T22:50:31Z")
> [@](#): > > So you can keep your opinion about Nelly being a great “artist” if you like. So you still have to put the word _artist_ in quotation marks? Had you made a point in the original thread that, after more than twenty years, the genre was developing into its own mature subgenres, you might have made a case. Dismissing other opinions out of ignorance does not make a case for anything but your ignorance. Can you actually _discuss_ the differences? Or are you so limited in your expression that you can only point out what you like and what you do not like–a fairly clear indication that you have not actually _thought_ about those art forms, despite your claim that one group should be valued more highly for _its_ “thoughts” (as presented in their lyrics). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/31 "2002-12-26T22:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I was just wondering where he got the idea **Biggirl** colored from. Whoops, did I say that God awful ‘c’ word again? Her presence at a Doper function. Her photo on the Straight Dope-related page of photos. Her participation in numerous cultural discussions in which she had indicated her ethnic background. (In other words, **Lux** has paid attention to the details regarding other posters that are available to anyone who lurks and looks around before picking a fight.) ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/32 "2002-12-26T22:56:55Z")
What **tomndebb** said. Plus… > [@](#): > > **just b/c he and a lot of other popular artists bank off their catchy beats doesn’t mean everyone else is the same.** Nobody said that they _were_ all the same. In fact **Biggirl** made the same point you profess to be making several times, and you apparently ignored it. Or disagreed with it. Seems like your coding efforts aren’t the only thing that’s faulty. Your logic could use some tuning up too. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/33 "2002-12-26T22:59:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > **Had you made a point in the original thread that, after more than twenty years, the genre was developing into its own mature subgenres, you might have made a case.** I thought that was my point. In the original forum **Biggirl** attempted to convince me that hip hop music was all about the beat and not rhythm. My contention was otherwise. Sure, some of the major rappers get by on their beats, others base their appeal on lyrical content. In the original forum, I even used the exact words “music evolves” and then here I said not _all_ rap music is the same. There’s no big huge thing called rap. I mean… well there is… but there are different _kinds_ of rap… which is what I said long time ago. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/34 "2002-12-26T23:09:29Z")
Well I’m sorry, **Tom** , but I’m relatively new to the boards. I hadn’t seen any of her posts until then. Fuck me in the Ozarks. And I love the way **Biggirl** and everyone else keep pretending like she never said lyrics aren’t what’s important about hip hop music. She never acknowledged the fact that there are A LOT of hip hop artists out there who sell off lyrics alone and not their pop beat. She said it’s all about the rhythm and lyrics don’t mean as much, rather than saying that’s how it is for _some_… b/c again I remind you, there are different types of rap music. > [@](#): > > I dunno Meanie, but I think if you want lyrical content, rap music is not the place to be looking. Sure you can find deep, meaningful words in rap, but this genre is all about the rhythm. > > Beats, bass and flow are more important than message. That’s what she says… now if I misunderstood, maybe I do have some serious logical problems. And then after that she says > [@](#): > > Lyrical content takes a back seat to the rhythm. Seems to me as if she’s making a very simple statement. In rap, beats matter, lyrics are secondary. Never mind the fact that not all rap music is the same. Never mind that her statement is not applicable to the likes Talib Kweli and Blackalicious. Of Nelly, sure… so again, someone is neglecting the fact that not all rap music is alike. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/35 "2002-12-26T23:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > of the major rappers _get by_ on their beats You’re still couching your expressions in terms that dismiss the groups that you do not favor. This is rather like saying that Verdi or Bach could “get by” with their concertos while the “real” composers wrote symphonies. If two subgenres are _different_, then disparaging one–especially when one has not provided an articulate argument to support actual superiority in a different one–is nothing more than supporting a popularity contest rather than discussing the actual values. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/36 "2002-12-26T23:16:13Z")
Well I say “get by” b/c I don’t think Nelly’s lyrics are that great. Good gracious ass is bodacious? … My grammar be’s ebonics. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/37 "2002-12-26T23:18:51Z")
> [@](#): > > again I remind you, there are different types of rap music _Again_ you remind us? Where have you stated that in the other thread? Even in this thread you have only grudgingly admitted that some artists “get by” with different appeals. The place to have initiated a discussion of subgneres was the other thread. You did not do that, simply dismissing the claims for rhythm as if the genre had moved beyond that measure. {'m willing to entertain the notion that there are multiple subgenres that can be defended on different standards. If you have a coherent argument, you might even get **Biggirl** to acknowledge that. However, you have _not yety put forth that argument_. You have simply disgreed with her position, rather rudely. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/38 "2002-12-26T23:21:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Well I say “get by” b/c I don’t think Nelly’s lyrics are that great. But if the standard to measure his subgenre is _not_ the lyrics and is the beat or rhythm, then dismissing him for bad lyrics is an invalid measure–except to show that he is in a different subgenre. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/39 "2002-12-26T23:24:21Z")
I said it 9,000 times. I said music evolves and there’s a big difference to the pop/dance/rap of Nelly and the poetry/hip hop stylings of Kweli. And **Biggirl** doesn’t have to acknowledge it if she doesn’t want to. Doesn’t stop it from being true. If you pick up a Nelly CD and a Common one and cannot not tell the difference, then you probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between Destiny’s Child and India Arie either. ---
**Author:** ![Osip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@Osip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osip)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972/40 "2002-12-26T23:33:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > **Fuck me in the Ozarks.** Would 8 o’clock on the 11th be acceptable? ok ok just joking… but I do have this thing about ladies who have been pitted. Oh where or where has the Kay Kay gone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-my-answer-to-you-meanoldlady/144972.md?page=3)