# Here's the attempt to "Swiftboat' Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685 "2012-08-16T17:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/181 "2012-08-17T21:14:55Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I hope that unlike Kerry, Team Obama puts out contrasting ads responding to the attack as soon as possible. Never good to let the narrative get away from you Team Obama would be wise to not respond to the ads directly, but rather to simply put out ads that feature Obama saying these exact words, with a tagline that shows the date he said them: > [@](#): > > A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body. > > Tonight, we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counterterrorism professionals who’ve worked tirelessly to achieve this outcome. The American people do not see their work, nor know their names. But tonight, they feel the satisfaction of their work and the result of their pursuit of justice. > > We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism, and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country. And they are part of a generation that has borne the heaviest share of the burden since that September day." No other commentary, no reference to the idiots putting forth the idiotic theory that Obama took all the credit for himself. No comment needed about how the main proponent is a crazy birther, or that he was not even in the Forces at the time of Obama’s capture and death. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/182 "2012-08-17T21:15:59Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > By which of the 3 mechanisms do you think Swiftboating hurt Kerry? I think your model is flawed. The Swiftboating hurt Kerry because he was using his military service to make the claim that he was a better choice than Bush to lead the country, and the Swiftboating cast doubt on that service. His campaign didn’t respond to it effectively and in general he didn’t run a good campaign. When you consider the country’s deeply conflicted feelings about Vietnam, Kerry’s own mixed feelings about his own service, and the weaknesses inherent in campaigning based on long-ago military service, it’s not surprising that it hurt him. This is a much simpler claim: they’re not saying Obama did not really order the Bin Laden raid or that he didn’t really kill Bin Laden or something. They’re agreeing he did all that and saying he’s being impolite about it. So I ask again: so what? Obama drew contrasts with Bush and McCain on foreign policy, Romney really has nothing to offer in this regard. > [@](#): > > I fear a similar effect, even 4%, could make a significant impact if Swiftboating Obama could move 4% or so of the US voting populace. _It doesn’t matter. None of these people were voting for Obama._ > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > In hindsight the Republicans like to pretend that anyone would have made the same call that Obama did. The broader issue is that Leon Pannetta did not just march into the Oval Office one day and say they had a solid lead on Bin Laden. Obama told the CIA to make it a priority that Bin Laden be found because it had not been one in recent yeras, and as a consequence, new evidence turned up and eventually they located him in Abbottabad. It’s not something that just happened. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/183 "2012-08-17T21:18:56Z")
Let’s also remember that [Romney himself criticized Obama](http://in.reuters.com/article/2007/08/04/idINIndia-28811520070804) during the prior election for saying that he would strike inside Pakistan to get at bin Laden. In the last election Obama said he would pursue bin Laden into Pakistan even if it meant keeping the Pakistani government in the dark. Both Romney and McCain opposed that course of action. The raid that actually resulted in bin Laden’s death would not have happened if either of those men had been elected President. They either would have passed on the opportunity, or attempted a joint operation with Pakistani intelligence that would have resulted in Al Qaeda being tipped off in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/184 "2012-08-17T21:27:53Z")
Well, the poo-flingers won’t confine themselves to one or two discrete points, they’ll fling \*all kinds \*of poo. We’ve already got: “taking too much credit”, “any President would have done it, so it’s not anything special”, “leaks are threatening the Seals/National Security”, “unspecified others actually made the decision anyway”, “he bungled the announcement, contaminating additional security value of found documents/etc”, and no doubt a few more I’m forgetting off the top of my head. Note that Birtherism/911ism/whatever, is never just one coherent narrative, but a jumble of (frequently contradictory) poo. I guess I just lack faith in some element of the middle who are clearly able to be impacted by loons (such as the 25% ‘unsure’ I keep referring to, and yes, I fear it could swing them. “So much smoke, there must be something to it”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/185 "2012-08-17T21:30:08Z")
All of this has been out there since the day after Obama announced that Bin Laden was dead. This kind of fearful condescension is not going to do you any favors. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/186 "2012-08-17T21:39:43Z")
Well, you call it ‘fearful condescension’ if you want, and you may be right. I call it being old enough to remember Nixon being roadkill, and then elected President, not once, but twice. BTW, \*\*you’re \*\*the one that called them “loons” in the first place, so who are you to call me ‘condescending’? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/187 "2012-08-17T21:44:17Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Well, you call it ‘fearful condescension’ if you want, and you may be right. I am. > [@](#): > > BTW, \*\*you’re \*\*the one that called them “loons” in the first place, so who are you to call me ‘condescending’? Birthers are loons. The condescending part is the assumption that Obama could lose because a significant number of people could fall for this garbage about “taking credit.” People can be very dumb, but there are occasionally limits. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/188 "2012-08-17T21:50:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s why we always tell our children, “In America, anyone can avoid being President. So if it happens to you, it’s your own damn fault.” _Clap_ ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/189 "2012-08-17T21:51:34Z")
_Clap_ ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/190 "2012-08-17T21:51:51Z")
Quote: [QUOTE=Gangster Octopus’s imitiation of what the nutbags think Obama should have said] And so shortly after taking office, somebody directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al-Qaida, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network. Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, somebody was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. \*\* Somebody met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan. And finally, last week, somebody determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. [/QUOTE] What? This colossal egotist said that “\*\* Somebody met repeatedly with my national security team”?? “MY national security team”? “MY”? Who does this presumptuous twerp think he is, calling them “my national security team”? Does he own them personally? We outlawed slavery 100 years ago. They’re American’s goddamned national security team! blablabla,rantrantrant, ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/191 "2012-08-17T21:52:13Z")
I admire you, your optimism, and your certainty. I would agree it is a longshot that Obama could lose enough advantage from this to lose the election. I never in a million years thought Shrub would be re-elected, either, after the mess he made of his first term. Sometimes you’re paranoid, and sometimes they _are_ out to get you… ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/192 "2012-08-17T21:52:36Z")
_Clap Clap Clap…_ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/193 "2012-08-17T22:07:50Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > _Clap Clap Clap…_ If you’re trying to turn the lights off, just use the damn switch already. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/194 "2012-08-17T22:13:05Z")
He’s trying to get the strobe effect. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/195 "2012-08-17T22:19:28Z")
And this just in, from your good friends at ThinkProgress (a lefty site, hence full of truth, justice, and crunchy goodness…) [http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/08/17/709231/founder-of-obama-swift-boating-group-im-a-birther/](http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/08/17/709231/founder-of-obama-swift-boating-group-im-a-birther/) **Founder of Obama Swift-Boating Group Says “I’m a Birther”.** To try conceal your shock and surprise… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/196 "2012-08-17T22:29:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this just in, from your good friends at ThinkProgress (a lefty site, hence full of truth, justice, and crunchy goodness…) > > [http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/08/17/709231/founder-of-obama-swift-boating-group-im-a-birther/](http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/08/17/709231/founder-of-obama-swift-boating-group-im-a-birther/) > > **Founder of Obama Swift-Boating Group Says “I’m a Birther”.** > > To try conceal your shock and surprise… I used up my shock and surprise in [post #154](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15394991&postcount=154) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/197 "2012-08-17T22:41:30Z")
Well, **Marley** is an admin, can stick a post in wherever he wishes. Did he show you a long form Certificate of Posting? I didn’t think so… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/198 "2012-08-18T05:58:16Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > [Larry King Live, July 28, 2008](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/28/lkl.01.html) > > KING: “If you were president and knew that bin Laden was in Pakistan, you know where, would you have U.S. forces go in after him?” > > MCCAIN: “ **Larry, I’m not going to go there and here’s why, because Pakistan is a sovereign nation.** I think the Pakistanis would want bin Laden out of their hair and out of their country and it’s causing great difficulties in Pakistan itself.” > > Direct question, direct answer. Now maybe McCain would have changed his mind after he got in office, but based on his statements prior to the election, he strongly disagreed with Obama’s plan to pursue bin Laden into Pakistan without involving the Pakistanis. > > In hindsight the Republicans like to pretend that anyone would have made the same call that Obama did. However, based on what McCain said on the campaign trail, that assertion simply isn’t true. If Obama hadn’t been elected President, the sort of raid that eventually killed bin Laden would have been off the table. McCain would have been too nervous about upsetting the Pakistanis to authorize it. You have, at best, an incomplete picture. Also, I take McCain’s answer to King as not being as saying that he didn’t want to address the point. [But here is the explanation he gave that I was remembering:](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7K9HpWZEfY) It says just what I recalled. And it is interesting to note that then-candidate Hillary Clinton was much more aligned with McCain and took Obama to task for his Pakistan comments. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/199 "2012-08-18T06:09:17Z")
Also, there’s a difference between knowing he’s in Pakistan and knowing which building he is in. But it is fair to point out that Obama’s been much more aggressive about fighting terrorists in pakistan than McCain or Clinton would have been, if we assume that McCain and Clinton would have continued Bush’s moderate policy. Obama’s policy on Pakistan is actually pretty radical and reckless, in a good way. Sometimes you have to be. Pakistan’s playing both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/200 "2012-08-18T08:18:58Z")
Enomaj, I’m not sure if you’re applauding me or trying to give me the clap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685.md?page=11)