# Here's the attempt to "Swiftboat' Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685 "2012-08-16T17:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/141 "2012-08-17T17:34:56Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You missed this, apparently… This post wins the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/142 "2012-08-17T17:38:07Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Where can I buy some of the confidence you seem to have that this isn’t going be a problem? Apply common sense, rinse, repeat. The American public didn’t really know John Kerry before he started running for president and he served in Vietnam decades ago. The whole country watched the news about Bin Laden break pretty much in real time 15 months ago, and most of them still remember September 11th. “Obama shouldn’t claim so much credit?” Who gives a fuck? Bin Laden’s bullet-ridden corpse is rotting somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/143 "2012-08-17T17:38:08Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Any questions? Yeah, what was Joe Biden’s role in the operation? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/144 "2012-08-17T17:45:28Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > YOU are the one who is making a mountain out of a molehill, not Obama. > > He said he was doing his job. Big deal. Would you prefer that he humbly say that he didn’t do his job? Hh? I’m simply giving my opinion how I see things. Did I cart this thread? No. Do I think this is as big a deal as Kerry’s Swiftboat Vets? No. Do I think its a big deal at all? Not really. But if the subject comes up, I’ll give my opinion on it. I’m funny that way when it comes to message boards. Or perhaps we have a different definitions of “mountain” and “molehill”. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/145 "2012-08-17T17:51:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Apply common sense, rinse, repeat. The American public didn’t really know John Kerry before he started running for president and he served in Vietnam decades ago. The whole country watched the news about Bin Laden break pretty much in real time 15 months ago, and most of them still remember September 11th. “Obama shouldn’t claim so much credit?” Who gives a fuck? Bin Laden’s bullet-ridden corpse is rotting somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. I hope you aren’t overestimating the common sense of the American voter. I’ve seen the “Big Lie” approach seem to work better and better throughout the years… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/146 "2012-08-17T17:51:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hh? I’m simply giving my opinion how I see things. Did I cart this thread? No. Do I think this is as big a deal as Kerry’s Swiftboat Vets? No. Do I think its a big deal at all? Not really. But if the subject comes up, I’ll give my opinion on it. I’m funny that way when it comes to message boards. > > Or perhaps we have a different definitions of “mountain” and “molehill”. You gave your opinion. I commented on it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/147 "2012-08-17T17:52:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Especially with something like this, where the real credit unquestionably goes to the individuals who carried out the mission and there’s a general belief that any President would have made that call. President McCain wouldn’t have. He explicitly said during the campaign that he wouldn’t pursue bin Laden into Pakistan and chided Obama for suggesting it. Without Barack Obama in the White House the raid that took out bin Laden never would have happened. If McCain had won, Bin Laden would still be sitting fat and happy in his safe house, plotting against the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/148 "2012-08-17T17:57:43Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I hope you aren’t overestimating the common sense of the American voter. I’m not. You might recall that Romney is trying to win this election with the economy as his main issue and keeps screwing up by talking about everything else. Any time he or Republican-backed groups spend quibbling about how much credit Obama should take on one of his biggest successes - something that amounts to an unimpeachable triumph - is time wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/149 "2012-08-17T18:04:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The fact that it comes up again does not help Obama. While, I think, everyone was willing to give him a pat on the back for it, he made the mistake of patting himself on the back. How do you reconcile your opinion with the following? Or do you just ignore the actual words of the president that don’t fit in with your pre-concieved notions? Obama: > [@](#): > > "A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body. > > Tonight, we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counterterrorism professionals who’ve worked tirelessly to achieve this outcome. The American people do not see their work, nor know their names. But tonight, they feel the satisfaction of their work and the result of their pursuit of justice. > > We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism, and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country. And they are part of a generation that has borne the heaviest share of the burden since that September day." > [@](#): > > Thanks to the incredible skill and courage of countless individuals — intelligence, military — over many years, the terrorist leader who struck our nation on 9/11 will never threaten America again. > > And today, here at Fort Campbell, I had the privilege of meeting the extraordinary Special Ops folks who honored that promise. It was a chance for me to say — on behalf of all Americans and people around the world — “Job well done.” Job well done. > > They’re America’s “quiet professionals” — because success demands secrecy. But I will say this. Like all of you, they could have chosen a life of ease. But like you, they volunteered. They chose to serve in a time of war, knowing they could be sent into harm’s way. They trained for years. They’re battle-hardened. They practiced tirelessly for this mission. And when I gave the order, they were ready. > > Now, in recent days, the whole world has learned just how ready they were. These Americans deserve credit for one of the greatest intelligence military operations in our nation’s history. But so does every person who wears America’s uniform, the finest military the world has ever known. And that includes all of you men and women of 101st." ETA: One tactic for Obama to use to counter this bullshit would be to simply play video of him saying this (with the date) over and over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/150 "2012-08-17T18:22:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not. You might recall that Romney is trying to win this election with the economy as his main issue and keeps screwing up by talking about everything else. Any time he or Republican-backed groups spend quibbling about how much credit Obama should take on one of his biggest successes - something that amounts to an unimpeachable triumph - is time wasted. Hope you are right. Kerry’s Vietnam service wasn’t gonna be George’s main focus either, and Dukakis wearing that tanker’s helmet…Sometimes it seems that stupid, trivial sideshow shit has a disproportional impact. I guess I worry that sometimes I can’t predict very well how well the monkey poo is gonna stick. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/151 "2012-08-17T18:27:19Z")
Here is another [excellent read](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/29/how-obama-got-bin-laden-a-detailed-account-from-showdown-by-david-corn.html) on how little Obama did (spoiler, he did a lot): > [@](#): > > McRaven had based the planning on an assumption that if his commandos were confronted by the Pakistanis, they would protect themselves without attempting to defeat the Pakistani forces, while waiting for the politicians in Washington and Islamabad to sort things out. He calculated that his team could hold off any Pakistani assault for one or two hours. > > Obama nixed the idea of commandos hunkering down to await diplomatic rescue. He worried that the Navy SEALs conducting the mission could end up as hostages of the Pakistanis, and he told McRaven to ensure that the U.S. forces could escape the compound and return to safety, whether or not they encountered Pakistani resistance. > > “Don’t worry about keeping things calm with Pakistan,” Obama said to McRaven. “Worry about getting out.” > > McRaven added additional forces; a second group of SEALs would be prepared to take on any Pakistani forces that might try to intervene. > [@](#): > > Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, described the latest plans. In response to Obama’s demand for a fight-your-way-out plan, McRaven had added two Chinook helicopters to complement the pair of MH-60 Black Hawk stealth copters. And the SEALs had been instructed to be prepared to engage if they were met by the Pakistani military. Good thing, because one of the original helicopters crashed necessitating the need for one of the Chinooks to come in and help evacuate. > [@](#): > > Panetta reported that the intelligence community had conducted a red team test exercise, in which analysts who had not previously worked on the bin Laden case evaluated the intelligence that had been collected. The CIA had earlier told Obama that its analysts had concluded there was a 60 to 80 percent certainty that bin Laden was in the Abbottabad compound. The red team ended up with lower odds: 40 to 60 percent. > > Several of Obama’s national security advisers were worried by the red team results and wondered why the confidence level was lower. Michael Leiter, the chief of the National Counterterrorism Center, believed the CIA had inflated the case. But the president showed little interest in calibrating the difference between the two conclusions. > > “My impression was that he viewed this as a 50-50 case,” Rhodes later said. “He knew there would always be a significant chance that the intelligence was not correct and he would have to live with the downside risk.” > > Whatever the percentages, Obama and everyone else realized this was the best shot the U.S. government had at finding bin Laden since he escaped at the battle of Tora Bora in late 2001. > [@](#): > > It was time to decide. Obama asked his national security team for their individual recommendations. Vice President Joe Biden and Gates each counseled waiting for more intelligence. “Don’t go,” the vice president said. Several of the participants still opted for a missile strike. Panetta and the president’s chief counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan, backed the helicopter assault. There was no consensus. > > The raid was not supported by a majority—and Obama’s most experienced advisers, his vice president and defense secretary, were wary of proceeding with this mission. > > “He had very senior people advising a different course,” a participant recalled. “It would take a lot of confidence and fortitude to go against all that.” > [@](#): > > Obama left the meeting, walked across the colonnade past the Rose Garden to the residence, to make a decision. He was thinking of Desert One and Black Hawk Down > [@](#): > > On Friday morning, April 29, before flying to Alabama to inspect tornado damage, Obama called national security adviser Tom Donilon, White House chief of staff Bill Daley, deputy national security adviser Denis McDonough, and John Brennan to the Diplomatic Room of the White House. They had expected to brief Obama again on the bin Laden options. But before the aides proceeded, Obama interrupted: “It’s a go.” > > “I’ve never seen a decision that courageous done without any sense of drama,” a top national security aide subsequently observed. Yeah, he didn’t do anything, except make a difficult decision, added to the success of the mission and put his political career on the line because he knew it was what was best for the country. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/152 "2012-08-17T19:11:34Z")
To be fair, if things had gone pear-shaped and Seal Team Six had all been killed in the mission instead, I’m sure the right-wingers wouldn’t be _blaming_ the President for it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/153 "2012-08-17T19:22:44Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > To be fair, if things had gone pear-shaped and Seal Team Six had all been killed in the mission instead, I’m sure the right-wingers wouldn’t be _blaming_ the President for it. Excellent point. And if he had called off the mission, they’d be bashing him for that. They will bash him no matter what, because this is about politics. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/154 "2012-08-17T19:54:37Z")
[Birthers are involved with the anti-Obama military push.](http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/08/17/anti_obama_navy_seal_leader_i_m_a_birther) My stars, who could have imagined such a thing! Yeah, this bunch of idiots and nutbags is going to help Romney in a big way. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/155 "2012-08-17T20:10:23Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > President McCain wouldn’t have. He explicitly said during the campaign that he wouldn’t pursue bin Laden into Pakistan and chided Obama for suggesting it. I don’t think that’s right. I’m pretty sure McCain’s point was that you don’t announce to Pakistan that you’re going to do that. You do what you have to, but you don’t announce to the world that you plan to violate another country’s territory. It puts that leader in a bad situation. Especially when we want his cooperation. If you think I’m wrong, I’ll have to ask for a cite for your claim. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Without Barack Obama in the White House the raid that took out bin Laden never would have happened. If McCain had won, Bin Laden would still be sitting fat and happy in his safe house, plotting against the U.S. I’ve taken note of your clairvoyance and will contact you the next time I go to Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/156 "2012-08-17T20:13:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > How do you reconcile your opinion with the following? Or do you just ignore the actual words of the president that don’t fit in with your pre-concieved notions? > > Obama: > > ETA: One tactic for Obama to use to counter this bullshit would be to simply play video of him saying this (with the date) over and over and over again. You’re kidding, right? The problem is not with _everything_ he said, but with the portion that has been cited more then once now. You’re building a strawman that “everything he said was bad”. I don;t think anyone is of that opinion. I know I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/157 "2012-08-17T20:17:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re kidding, right? The problem is not with _everything_ he said, but with the portion that has been cited more then once now. Sounds like you’re saying “if we ignore the parts where he gave credit to others, it looks like he’s taking all the credit for himself.” ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/158 "2012-08-17T20:18:26Z")
Polls in April 2011 showed that 1/4 of Americans, and roughly 45% of Republicans, believed that Obama was born outside the US. The nutbags can influence public opinion rather remarkably. Looking for current #s, but my Google-fu is weak today. Recent poll re: Presidents religion: PRINCETON, NJ – Just 34% of Americans correctly say U.S. President Barack Obama is a Christian, while 44% say they don’t know Obama’s religion and 11% say he is a Muslim. (Gallup, 6/12) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/159 "2012-08-17T20:19:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re kidding, right? The problem is not with _everything_ he said, but with the portion that has been cited more then once now. You’re building a strawman that “everything he said was bad”. I don;t think anyone is of that opinion. I know I’m not. And what he said is bad because…he used ‘I’ to describe things he did that were part of the not inconsequential process? Deranged. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685/160 "2012-08-17T20:22:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Sounds like you’re saying “if we ignore the parts where he gave credit to others, it looks like he’s taking all the credit for himself.” I never said he was taking ALL the credit for himself. But nice try. I;m saying that he would have served himself much better if he left out what has been cited. People with his visibility who deserve credit get it without making speeches about what he or she did. And once they are seen trying to claim any, the amount that people would normally give them declines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-the-attempt-to-swiftboat-obama/631685.md?page=9)