# Here's why Hillary won the popular vote. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764 "2016-12-15T12:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/21 "2016-12-28T13:58:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > She likely would have won if not for Comey bringing the FBI into it. > > Cite: [http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/309871-nate-silver-clinton-almost-certainly-wouldve-won-if-election-were-before](http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/309871-nate-silver-clinton-almost-certainly-wouldve-won-if-election-were-before) > > She had a good strategy, she just didn’t expect the FBI head to drop a partisan bomb with 11 days to go. > > If you and I are playing chess, and your cousin punches me in the head before I checkmate you, causing me to run out the game clock and lose, that doesn’t mean I have a stupid strategy. I just didn’t think your cousin was gonna weigh in. Why is nothing ever _Clinton’s_ fault? Take this back a step. If she hadn’t made the decision to have her own server, and having _TS/SCI_ emails at her home, she wouldn’t have given Comey the opportunity. I don’t think that the government / military vote hurt or helped her. But many government workers that I know that generally lean left were pissed that Clinton did something, then took no responsibility for that something until the very end, that would have gotten them thrown in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/22 "2016-12-28T14:12:14Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Why is nothing ever _Clinton’s_ fault? > > Take this back a step. If she hadn’t made the decision to have her own server, and having _TS/SCI_ emails at her home, she wouldn’t have given Comey the opportunity. > > I don’t think that the government / military vote hurt or helped her. But many government workers that I know that generally lean left were pissed that Clinton did something, then took no responsibility for that something until the very end, that would have gotten them thrown in jail. Name a few of the government workers thrown in jail for similar “crimes.” Getting a poor performance review does not count. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/23 "2016-12-28T15:17:36Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > ; a survey aimed at finding out how many people actually voted for Clinton because they thought she was a good candidate with good policies and values versus how many voted for her because they really, really can’t stand Trump would certainly be interesting. As would the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/24 "2016-12-28T15:32:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not a cite; that’s a guess. A guess by someone who guessed wrong the entire campaign. _Post hoc ergo propter hoc_ is a fallacy. It’s an educated guess from a fantastically accurate expert. I take Silver’s estimation with appropriate, I think, weight. This campaign is different from any before, because we’ve never elected an uneducated bullshit artist into office before. Silver didn’t think Trump would win, but he also didn’t expect Comey shitting all over the process. Which recursively leads me back to my previous post. We can’t know what would have happened, but Silver has numbers. Whatchoo got? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/25 "2016-12-28T15:36:12Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Name a few of the government workers thrown in jail for similar “crimes.” Getting a poor performance review does not count. [Navy Enlisted Going to Jail](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646#ixzz4DZTWAYt1) Here is one quick example of less than TS/SCI landing one in jail. Hell, we had an SES here in our office fired over not handling SECRET properly within the confines of the building. I’m just curious. What do you think would happen to a midlevel government employee, say a GS-10 or 12, that had TS/SCI on their home computer? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/26 "2016-12-28T15:39:13Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Why is nothing ever _Clinton’s_ fault? The things that are her fault are her fault. The things that aren’t aren’t. Glad I could clear that up. > [@](#): > > Take this back a step. If she hadn’t made the decision to have her own server, and having _TS/SCI_ emails at her home, she wouldn’t have given Comey the opportunity. The email server isn’t a scandal. It’s a mistake. Nothing evil was done, no malfeasance was wrought. If you think it’s a serious scandal, you’re being mislead by grave sounding talking heads intoning nonsense in earnest tones. > [@](#): > > I don’t think that the government / military vote hurt or helped her. But many government workers that I know that generally lean left were pissed that Clinton did something, then took no responsibility for that something until the very end, that would have gotten them thrown in jail. She took responsibility. And if you think this would put others in jail, you’re misinformed. It’s late now, but people holding the same misinformed view as you certainly pushed towards Trump’s election. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/27 "2016-12-28T15:42:23Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > [Navy Enlisted Going to Jail](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646#ixzz4DZTWAYt1) > > Here is one quick example of less than TS/SCI landing one in jail. > > Hell, we had an SES here in our office fired over not handling SECRET properly within the confines of the building. > > I’m just curious. What do you think would happen to a midlevel government employee, say a GS-10 or 12, that had TS/SCI on their home computer? Utter nonsense. > [@From the Quoted Article](#): > > Prosecutors allege that Petty Officer First Class Kristian Saucier used a cellphone camera to take photos in the classified engine room of the nuclear submarine where he worked as a mechanic, the USS Alexandria, then destroyed a laptop, camera and memory card after learning he was under investigation. Jesus dude. What utter shit. She directed her lawyers to delete the personal emails before turning them over. She didn’t oversee the deletions, and wasn’t, presumably twirling her mustache at the time. This comparison is part of the horseshit feeding frenzy that made people equate the two candidates. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/28 "2016-12-28T16:56:23Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The email server isn’t a scandal. It’s a mistake. Nothing evil was done, no malfeasance was wrought. A mistake. OK. So could you humor me? As I wrote up thread, if a mid-grade Officer or GS employee had TS/SCI at home, what do you think, would and should be done? Because where I work, SECRET material is a huge deal. TS/SCI is an enormous deal. Just wondering where you stand. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/29 "2016-12-28T17:31:42Z")
I wouldn’t vote for Saucier either. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/30 "2016-12-28T17:42:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You’ve won the, “unconvincing pedantic foofaroo” award. > > Wait, is there such a thing?!? If there is, I’d bet it looks like a paper towel tube. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/31 "2016-12-28T21:24:38Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > A mistake. OK. > > So could you humor me? As I wrote up thread, if a mid-grade Officer or GS employee had TS/SCI at home, what do you think, would and should be done? Did the mid-level employee get signed off by the IT department to get their email on that server? Do you see how that’s different? If some low-level dude tries to use his personal server he’d probably be told, “no.” But just like Powell, the guy or gal at the top has lattitude. > [@](#): > > Because where I work, SECRET material is a huge deal. TS/SCI is an enormous deal. Just wondering where you stand. You are misinformed about the issue. Clinton had three items that didn’t have the headers of classified material, but had an (c) in the body of the text. Out of a hundred thousand emails. 1. She didn’t send any of those. They were sent to her, perhaps improperly. Classified info was sent on other, more secure systems. The other classified information that was reported was just paraphrasing stuff that in retrospect may have been classified. Comey, the utterly partisan douchebag, couldn’t find a reason to charge Clinton. Said it would be unreasonable to do so. So I’m guessing if your hypothetical dude did the same thing, he’d be reprimanded or perhaps fired. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/32 "2016-12-28T21:43:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If there is, I’d bet it looks like a paper towel tube. This is a warning for being a jerk referencing the paper towel tube in this fashion. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/33 "2016-12-28T23:20:38Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is a warning for being a jerk referencing the paper towel tube in this fashion. > > [/moderating] I guess we’re not in the Pit. Gotta remember to check which forum I’m in. I apologize to the board and to **Bone**. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/34 "2016-12-29T13:53:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Did the mid-level employee get signed off by the IT department to get their email on that server? Do you see how that’s different? If some low-level dude tries to use his personal server he’d probably be told, “no.” But just like Powell, the guy or gal at the top has lattitude. You see when it comes to classified material, there isn’t supposed to be “lattitude.” That’s how, well, classified material gets on non-secure servers and falls in the hands of people we don’t want it to. This “latitude” - completely of her doing - is what put her in this situation. And the fact that the Secretary and her staff could brow beat the GS-15 IT head into approving her server doesn’t mean much. > [@Lobohan](#): > > You are misinformed about the issue. Clinton had three items that didn’t have the headers of classified material, but had an (c) in the body of the text. Out of a hundred thousand emails. They were sent to her, perhaps improperly. . . The other classified information that was reported was just paraphrasing stuff that in retrospect may have been classified. Not misinformed at all. She received and sent TS-SCI that wasn’t properly marked as such. But you don’t have be an expert when you read something that is marked UNCLAS when you know it should be. Especially at that classification level. My belief is that this philosophy about classified material that permeated Clinton and her staff, the whole " They were sent to her, perhaps improperly. . . The other classified information . . . was just paraphrasing stuff that in retrospect may have been classified" laissez-faire, it’s all cool man, who gives a rat’s ass lackadaisical attitude is what influenced Comey to revisit this via the Weiner laptop. Clinton’s the smartest person in the room until it’s convent for her not to be. The whole “who knew what this little (c) meant” insolence combined with the rest is like nails on a chalkboard to professionals who handle classified material for a living. I can’t say this enough. To those who that handle this material frequently, TS/TSI is an enormous deal, and isn’t treated like this. > [@Lobohan](#): > > So I’m guessing if your hypothetical dude did the same thing, he’d be reprimanded or perhaps fired. Ohh. They’d only have their clearance revoked, be fired from their career and never have the ability to get a job in government or related to their profession again? That’s all? Sorry, I thought the ramifications might have been meaningful. I guess if you’re that Sailor who’s in jail, that might not be so bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/35 "2016-12-29T16:16:37Z")
> [@thicknick](#): > > I don’t care if she did or didn’t win the popular vote. Judging by her actions after her lose, her terrible behavior and inability to accept defeat with respect and dignity I would imagine her popularity is not what it once was. Her group of haters whether involved of not you’d think she’d shut them down. Doesn’t she realize how low they make her appear. Bad publicity is not always good publicity. Sometimes it’s better to let it die. How long can you beat a dead horse before you accept it is what it is. You gave it a shot and you lost, own it. Until then you appear as a sore loser and a pathetic one at that. Step back have another drink if necessary and move on. With dignity what’s left of it…:smack::eek:::mad: Sounds like a condensed version of 15 years of Fox News coverage of Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/36 "2016-12-29T17:20:13Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > You see when it comes to classified material, there isn’t supposed to be “lattitude.” That’s how, well, classified material gets on non-secure servers and falls in the hands of people we don’t want it to. This “latitude” - completely of her doing - is what put her in this situation. And the fact that the Secretary and her staff could brow beat the GS-15 IT head into approving her server doesn’t mean much. The server wasn’t used for classified material. Some classified material got sent by accident. Only 3 items were improperly marked. The rest were email chains that contained some information they shouldn’t have. Whooptydoo. > [@](#): > > Not misinformed at all. She received and sent TS-SCI that wasn’t properly marked as such. But you don’t have be an expert when you read something that is marked UNCLAS when you know it should be. Especially at that classification level. 3 improperly marked items were sent to her. Comey himself said it was reasonable to assume that the content wasn’t classified. All other classified material was in email chains that contained some unmarked snippit buried within them that was found, after exhaustive search to be classified. She wasn’t forwarding special forces orders. Someone said something that after exhaustive review was found to cross a line. It’s utterly minor, and not evidence of a crime. Period. > [@](#): > > My belief is that this philosophy about classified material that permeated Clinton and her staff, the whole " They were sent to her, perhaps improperly. . . The other classified information . . . was just paraphrasing stuff that in retrospect may have been classified" laissez-faire, it’s all cool man, who gives a rat’s ass lackadaisical attitude is what influenced Comey to revisit this via the Weiner laptop. Clinton’s the smartest person in the room until it’s convent for her not to be. The whole “who knew what this little (c) meant” insolence combined with the rest is like nails on a chalkboard to professionals who handle classified material for a living. I can’t say this enough. To those who that handle this material frequently, TS/TSI is an enormous deal, and isn’t treated like this. People were talking about stuff that was determined to be classified after the fact. These were real-time communications, and sometimes some people let stuff slip a bit more. They weren’t sending classified documents to each other. You are cleaving to your assessment because you’ve decided that this is a travesty. Not because the facts support it. > [@](#): > > Ohh. They’d only have their clearance revoked, be fired from their career and never have the ability to get a job in government or related to their profession again? That’s all? Sorry, I thought the ramifications might have been meaningful. I guess if you’re that Sailor who’s in jail, that might not be so bad. I didn’t say that. You are free to believe whatever nonsense makes you happy, just know it’s bullshit. The Sailor in jail did something totally different. Equating the two is inept. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/37 "2016-12-29T18:09:49Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > [Navy Enlisted Going to Jail](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646#ixzz4DZTWAYt1) > > Here is one quick example of less than TS/SCI landing one in jail. > > Hell, we had an SES here in our office fired over not handling SECRET properly within the confines of the building. > > I’m just curious. What do you think would happen to a midlevel government employee, say a GS-10 or 12, that had TS/SCI on their home computer? From your link: > [@](#): > > One factor that may have led investigators and prosecutors to handle Saucier’s case more aggressively is the way he responded when confronted about the photos. Court filings say he initially denied he took the pictures. Prosecutors say he later smashed his laptop, camera and memory card and threw them in the woods. What do you believe was the analogous conduct from Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/38 "2016-12-29T20:51:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What do you believe was the analogous conduct from Clinton? I’ll take a stab at it. Publicly at least, Clinton’s statements on the emails certainly “evolved” over time: “I never sent or received any classified material” - February 4, 2016 Later on this line evolved to include “marked” and then “at the time that they were sent / received” I have no idea what she told the FBI though. They apparently believe she didn’t lie _to them_. She initially said: “The State Department asked former secretaries of state for our assistance in providing copies of work-related emails from our personal accounts. I responded right away and provided all my emails that could possibly be work-related, which totaled roughly 55,000 printed pages, even though I knew that the State Department already had the vast majority of them. We went through a thorough process to identify all of my work-related emails and deliver them to the State Department.” - March 10, 2015 The highlighted bits weren’t accurate, but that might have just been due to Clinton’s own ignorance, and not an attempt to deceive. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/39 "2016-12-29T23:27:53Z")
It’s interesting that right-wingers are totally open to overlooking mistakes and even downright wrongdoing by Republican politicians, but keep their eye on every jot and tittle of what Democrats do. Democrats have to be superhumanly perfect just to get an equal hearing next to a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-why-hillary-won-the-popular-vote/774764/40 "2016-12-30T00:52:02Z")
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