# Here's your "all white jury", race hustlers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621 "2013-07-26T20:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/181 "2013-07-29T17:04:08Z")
I’d rather talk about Fox’s conservative bias. Those bastards! ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/182 "2013-07-29T17:34:36Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Goddamn you’re a fucktard. Please do the world a favor and never leave your moms’ basement. It’s bad enough you are allowed on the internet. You’re drunk. Go home. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/183 "2013-07-29T19:19:17Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I’m posting this here cuz I happens to be here… I just did a search for the keyword “Zimmerman”…259 threads!:eek: Now, now, I’m sure some are WWI threads referring to the [del]Zimmermann[/del] Zimmerman telegram. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/184 "2013-07-29T20:16:00Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Now, now, I’m sure some are WWI threads referring to the [del]Zimmermann[/del] Zimmerman telegram. 🙂 Or noted sixties folk singer Robert Zimmerman, although he’s more commonly known by his stage name. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/185 "2013-07-29T21:13:11Z")
Say, **Steophan** , ever find that cite about all those medical experts at Z’s trial? You remember, how all of them rebutted the testmony about Z’s injuries being minor? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/186 "2013-07-29T21:29:32Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Because it _was_ a deliberate act. Do you disagree you attempted to craft a gotcha, based on (what you thought was) a hyper-literal comparison? The honest mistake is that you crafted it on a false premise. BTW, crafting a gotcha isn’t some evil crime, in my book. Some people are asking for it. I’ve crafted plenty. Is this the third or fourth permutation of your bullshit backpedal story? No, it wasn’t a gotcha. At least, not towards Bricker, the way you read it. Because I more or less agree with\*\* Bricker\*\* on this subject. I agree that the media is misleading. But not just “liberal media”. IMO there is no liberal media.The corporate entities that control the likes of ABC or NBC don’t care about George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin, they just want to sell their wares and further their own business interests. You think Salatan, as an opinion writer, doesn’t have his own bias and agenda? Check the corrections page of Slate. \*\* Bricker\*\* might agree with some of that, probably with some points of departure. It’s called nuance, something you seem to have trouble with. Anyway, **Bricker** stated he had no position on the article itself when he posted it. He was using it to make a different point. You’d have known that if you’d bothered to read the original post. But you have trouble with context, too. Just like last time. My post “triggered you”, so you clicked on the link looking for something to rebut. Not because you had an interest in the subject. That’s the real joke here: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Stratocaster** > > I’ll decide for myself when I see the whole thing. But if it is as he interpreted it, this is a perfect example of what **Bricker** was commenting on–a slanted, deliberate act of pseudo-journalism. Sure, you might get around to deciding what to think eventually, but why wait until then to post your brilliance? You don’t have an opinion of your own, so what else can you post but gotchas, boilerplate snark, and cliched soundbites that pass for a POV? I blame myself for getting suckered in again. I should have known better this time.The real tell was your first post to me in the other thread. You replied to the LOL post, not the post where I stated my opinion. You weren’t interested in my “logic”; you read **Terr** ’s strawman about what I said and responded to that. The perceived insult is what triggered you, same as here. You thought I was trying to insult **Terr** or **Bricker** so you jumped in because I was “asking for it”, right? You are either too lazy or incapable of forming an opinion of your own, so you latch on to another poster’s coattails and try to play wingman with your “one minute” rebuttals. So go ahead and get your last word in, because you can’t help it - as you say you tend to react to snark with snark. React being the key word. And after all, I’m “asking for it”. Women are too emotional, right? Not able to let something go and give the man the last word once he’s put them in their place. Consider this a parting gift: I won’t respond to your predictable parting shot and burn Mr. Thick Skin’s ass again. In future, if you insist on replying to my posts with your “one minute’s thought” brilliance, my one minute response will be a link to this post. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/187 "2013-07-29T21:46:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Say, **Steophan** , ever find that cite about all those medical experts at Z’s trial? You remember, how all of them rebutted the testmony about Z’s injuries being minor? Yes, the cite is the trial. I assume you followed it, since you are opining so regularly on it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/188 "2013-07-29T22:22:04Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Is this the third or fourth permutation of your bullshit backpedal story? > > No, it wasn’t a gotcha. At least, not towards Bricker, the way you read it. Because I more or less agree with\*\* Bricker\*\* on this subject. I agree that the media is misleading. > > But not just “liberal media”. IMO there is no liberal media.The corporate entities that control the likes of ABC or NBC don’t care about George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin, they just want to sell their wares and further their own business interests. You think Salatan, as an opinion writer, doesn’t have his own bias and agenda? Check the corrections page of Slate. \*\* Bricker\*\* might agree with some of that, probably with some points of departure. > > It’s called nuance, something you seem to have trouble with. > > Anyway, **Bricker** stated he had no position on the article itself when he posted it. He was using it to make a different point. You’d have known that if you’d bothered to read the original post. But you have trouble with context, too. Just like last time. My post “triggered you”, so you clicked on the link looking for something to rebut. Not because you had an interest in the subject. That’s the real joke here: > Sure, you might get around to deciding what to think eventually, but why wait until then to post your brilliance? You don’t have an opinion of your own, so what else can you post but gotchas, boilerplate snark, and cliched soundbites that pass for a POV? > > I blame myself for getting suckered in again. I should have known better this time.The real tell was your first post to me in the other thread. You replied to the LOL post, not the post where I stated my opinion. You weren’t interested in my “logic”; you read **Terr** ’s strawman about what I said and responded to that. > > The perceived insult is what triggered you, same as here. You thought I was trying to insult **Terr** or **Bricker** so you jumped in because I was “asking for it”, right? You are either too lazy or incapable of forming an opinion of your own, so you latch on to another poster’s coattails and try to play wingman with your “one minute” rebuttals. > > So go ahead and get your last word in, because you can’t help it - as you say you tend to react to snark with snark. React being the key word. And after all, I’m “asking for it”. Women are too emotional, right? Not able to let something go and give the man the last word once he’s put them in their place. > > Consider this a parting gift: I won’t respond to your predictable parting shot and burn Mr. Thick Skin’s ass again. In future, if you insist on replying to my posts with your “one minute’s thought” brilliance, my one minute response will be a link to this post. Wow. You need to adjust your meds. Or something. Sayonara. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/189 "2013-07-29T22:52:25Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/190 "2013-07-29T22:54:26Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/191 "2013-07-30T15:52:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, the cite is the trial. I assume you followed it, since you are opining so regularly on it. Oh, I fear there is scant comfort for you there. There were three such experts testifying at the trial. One, the medical examiner which we have already covered. Who offered the opinion that Z’s injuries were “insignificant” and most likely resulted from a single blow. On cross examination, she allowed as how it was _possible_ that there were more than one, but her expert opinion stands. And note: since we have no reason to believe that Martin dragged Z from some other location to the sidewalk, the most reasonable presumption would be that Z fell backwards onto the sidewalk just before Martin was atop him. If you have any evidence to offer otherwise, now would be an excellent time to present it. The second medical witness testified for the defense, the essential thrust of his tesimony being that the gunshot evidence on Martin’s clothes was consistent with his being atop Z and leaning forward. He also made a passing reference that it was “not necessarily” the case that serious injuries would leave obvious wounds. Duly noted. Since the medical examiner had already alluded to this possibility, that doesn’t mean a whole lot. > **[Hardball with Chris Matthews on MSNBC](https://www.msnbc.com/hardball)** > > Get the latest news, video, and commentary from Chris Matthews, and join Hardball’s community. (See that? That’s what we call a “link”, a means by which the reader may verify the facts of a cite. Its a common feature of honest debaters, such as myself…) The last medical expert witness performed the autopsy on Mr. Martin. Dr Shiping Bao had nothing to offer about Z’s injuries, nor would we expect him to. It appears, then, that your statement… > [@](#): > > …That would be the expert testimony that said the injuries were consistent with multiple blows, yes? Because all the experts at the trial said that… …is at best misleading, and at worst utter bullshit. Unless there was other “expert testimony” not mentioned here? And the word “all” means something other than the commonly understood meaning of the word? Here’s a helpful hint: some people here, and I am one of them, check facts. Especially when offered a sweeping statement such as the one you offered, above. You might want to be careful about that, if your reputation for integrity and honesty has any value to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/192 "2013-07-30T16:09:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Here’s a helpful hint: some people here, and I am one of them, check facts. Especially when offered a sweeping statement such as the one you offered, above. You might want to be careful about that, if your reputation for integrity and honesty has any value to you. Such as: > [@What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/54): > > First offer us proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. > [@What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/56): > > I changed my mind about same-sex marriage after evidence presented here showed the error of my position. > > Now provide US with proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. > [@What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/60): > > As **Bricker** has indicated, he can and does change his mind when evidence and argument can show him his position is inconsistent or incorrectly formulated. I can vouch for that, as I’ve been involved in discussions here where that happened. > [@What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/64): > > You didn’t answer me, and after I answered you! > > Well? (And by “you guys,” I’ll settle for YOU). > [@What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/95): > > Well, elucidator? You asked, I answered, now I am asking you. Have you ever changed your mind after evidence showed you were wrong? Is there some evidence of that? You have studiously ignored that conversation since it happened. Does this have any bearing on your “reputation for integrity and honesty?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/193 "2013-07-30T16:14:27Z")
But you did change my opinion, you most certainly did! I, like many others here, used to think of you as an honest conservative. I still think of you as a conservative. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/194 "2013-07-30T16:31:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Well, I would hope so, if I was defending myself from a stalker with a gun. But scary black teens in hoodies are not allowed to stand their ground in Florida. Multiple witnesses claim the confrontation begin west of the T, than moved south, Z claimed he was returning to his truck, and not following anyone. If the witnesses are accurate, Z would have been mere seconds from his truck. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/195 "2013-07-30T16:32:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But you did change my opinion, you most certainly did! I, like many others here, used to think of you as an honest conservative. I still think of you as a conservative. The problem with your example is that it doesn’t capture the type of change your post was asking for: > [@elucidator](#): > > First offer us proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. This question doesn’t appear to contemplate a “change” in which one becomes further entrenched in the position they hold, since the context of the question was as your response to **Saint Cad** : > [@What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/53): > > Then answer this question: > > 1. How many citizens over 18 were denied their chance to vote because > a) They lack appropriate ID > b) They are unable (not merely unwilling) to get the appropriate ID You replied, “First offer us proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds.” And now you’d like to simultaneously answer that your own ability to change your mind in this manner is shown by your change of thinking I’m an honest conservative to simply thinking I’m a conservative…and giving **Steophan** advice on maintaining his “reputation for integrity and honesty.” Is that about the size of it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/196 "2013-07-30T18:29:05Z")
I’ve been savagely mauled by a chihuahua! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/197 "2013-07-30T18:58:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’ve been savagely mauled by a chihuahua! That’s not an answer. It’s your usual trick of spewing bullshit prose that means nothing. Do you have an actual, plain, clear, answer? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/198 "2013-07-30T19:07:17Z")
Sure! You don’t deserve one. Plain enough for your sorry ass? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/199 "2013-07-30T19:07:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not an answer. It’s your usual trick of spewing bullshit prose that means nothing. > > Do you have an actual, plain, clear, answer? It’s his trick for never being actually wrong, never actually say _anything_. It failed earlier when he managed to support my post whilst attempting to prove me wrong, by showing that all the medical testimony was consistent with Zimmerman having been attacked and bashed against the ground repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/200 "2013-07-30T19:24:36Z")
Against the ground? What happened to the sidewalk? And if I _did_ support your post with citation, its more than you managed to do. Your use of the word “consistent” is misleading, as if it were a positive statement implying a high degree of probability. “Not inconsistent” is not precisely the same thing as “consistent”, it can be used to describe something that is not ruled out by the facts, but that does not mean that it is likely. Certainly it is possible that repeated bashing of the head might result in trivial injury, if it is done softly, softly. Is that the premise you would like to offer? Martn lightly and repeatedly pressing Z’s head to the sidewalk (or the ground, you seem to be confused on this…). The medical examiner offered her expert opinion in the sense of what is likely. The defense witness was not called to testify about wounds on Zimmerman, but ballistic evidence regarding Martin. He offered his opinion that serious injury could be delivered without leaving much evidence of having occurred. All of this is available by way of the cites provided. So far as I know, the expert who performed the autopsy offered no opinions whatever about Z’s wounds, so if you have evidence that he did, bring it. And cite it, of course. Your wording was misleading. We already have a grand master of slippery semantics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=11)