# Here's your "all white jury", race hustlers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621 "2013-07-26T20:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/61 "2013-07-27T01:30:52Z")
As the sign said… “If the head is split, you must acquit.” (forget where I saw that) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/62 "2013-07-27T01:35:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What it the man was banging your head against the sidewalk? Sure, and if I was lucky enough to kill him I’d be the only one able to testify as to what happended which is enough to get me off with a broadly applied law. Why ‘stand your ground’ is never applied to an unarmed man who is followed in the middle of the night is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/63 "2013-07-27T01:44:12Z")
Well, it certainly would be if he weren’t dead! The law is very impartial. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/64 "2013-07-27T01:53:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Shit, if a man can simultaneously bang my head on the sidewalk twenty times while using both hands to cover my broken nose and mouth AND not get a drop of blood on his hands? I’d have better luck surrendering. How do you surrender to a guy who is already doing that? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/65 "2013-07-27T02:02:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How do you surrender to a guy who is already doing that? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/66 "2013-07-27T02:08:22Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Why ‘stand your ground’ is never applied to an unarmed man who is followed in the middle of the night is beyond me. This was not a SYG case. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/67 "2013-07-27T02:09:14Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Cite? You want a cite for a hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/68 "2013-07-27T02:12:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. Except that no one knew that to be true until now. The racial composition of the jury was widely reported when the jury was selected and sworn; the fact that the one Hispanic juror was also the longest holdout for conviction wasn’t known until she came forward. True. It was widely speculated though, that she was the one who voted for murder 2, and was the last to agree to acquit (since the first juror interview two days later). I know I wasn’t surprised when she came forward to confirm it. But this just adds to the confusion: If there was all this speculation about the Hispanic juror being the holdout, how was it simultaneously put forward that the jury was all white? Possible answer: Maybe her Hispanic label was originally considered white, in the same way Zimmerman was considered white. Once she came forward and revealed herself to the public, her appearance was used to change her designation to non-white. Do we know how she self identifies? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/69 "2013-07-27T02:34:28Z")
I think this is as much as we know now (and that she is “Puerto Rican”): \*The only woman of color sworn in as a juror in the George Zimmerman trial Thursday is being identified as juror B-29. Her ethnicity is unclear. “We understand she is Hispanic,” Attorney Benjamin Crump said Thursday. Defense attorney Mark O’Mara said she was black, but her ethnicity was not on the record. In court, Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda identified her as “black” but was unsure if she was Hispanic\* [Link](http://www.local10.com/news/juror-b29-mother-of-six-is-new-to-seminole-county/-/1717324/20653762/-/8a5fcb/-/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/70 "2013-07-27T02:37:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How do you surrender to a guy who is already doing that? Kryptonite? (Sarcasm, **John**. Have you had your humor chip calibrated lately?) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/71 "2013-07-27T02:45:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In the matter of the _Volokh_ excerpt: (Why did they give themselves a name that sounds like a Stan Lee supervillain?) It’s the surname of Professor Eugene Volokh, who clerked for O’Connor before joining the faculty of the UCLA School of Law. > [@](#): > > To my mind, when a man straps on a lethal weapon he makes a statement, he says that he is solidly responsible, morally straight and worthy of a level of trust far beyond what is ordinarily offered to a citizen. I know very few people I accord that level of respect. _Very_ few. That is your mind. In fact, every citizen is entitled to keep and bear arms: it’s an individual right. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/72 "2013-07-27T02:49:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think in a case like this it’s a simple matter of being biased in favor of accepting something that “fits the narrative” more easily than something that doesn’t. We see it here all the time. Posters on the left or right will often accept a statement form folks on “their side” without scrutinizing it the way they would a remark from someone on the other team. > > **Bricker** , you were caught with at least one OP like that recently, IIRC. Something about unions workers and hurricane Sandy…? Not to single out you, because it’s a common occurrence. Correct. But how long did my error persist? Did I fail to correct it when presented with contrary evidence? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/73 "2013-07-27T02:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > …That is your mind. > > In fact, every citizen is entitled to keep and bear arms: it’s an individual right. You mean to tell me its just my opinion? And that there are laws in place that entitle people to keep and bear weapons? No shit? Thanks for the update. I may have to take a moment to absorb this new and startling information. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/74 "2013-07-27T03:04:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > And here, I think, lies the problem. Florida law, and (not coincidentally) the mindset of many people who live there, considers the carrying of a weapon to be a minor, everyday thing, with a licence that’s significantly easier to get than, say, a driving licence. A legible set of fingerprints on file and an FBI background check aren’t required to get a driver’s license anywhere. I know they are to get CCW here in AR and I’m pretty sure FL is the same. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/75 "2013-07-27T03:09:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You want a cite for a hypothetical? Hardly a hypothetical…its a narration of Z’s statements. Without any credible corroboration. Thus, cite or retract. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/76 "2013-07-27T03:28:38Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Hardly a hypothetical…its a narration of Z’s statements. Without any credible corroboration. > > Thus, cite or retract. It’s a hypothetical. It may be based on the narrative, but it’s a hypothetical. No cite for a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/77 "2013-07-27T03:43:15Z")
Wait, I say “hypothetical” and that means I don’t have to prove anything? Shit, I can get some _mileage_ out of that! Hypothetically. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/78 "2013-07-27T04:15:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Kryptonite? > > (Sarcasm, **John**. Have you had your humor chip calibrated lately?) No, I just had my SoH checked, and it’s 100%. I guess that leaves us with the only other explanation-- you once again argued yourself into a corner and cried SARCASM!! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/79 "2013-07-27T04:17:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait, I say “hypothetical” and that means I don’t have to prove anything? Shit, I can get some _mileage_ out of that! Hypothetically. Who’s trying to “prove” something? You threw out a hypothetical and said you would do “x”. I altered the hypothetical, and asked what you’d do under that circumstance. But no matter, you were just being sarcastic… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/80 "2013-07-27T04:27:07Z")
You many things, **John** , but stupid isn’t on the list. I find it hard to think you didn’t actually get the thrust of **Red** ’s question. But if you say so, I will believe you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=5)