# Here's your "all white jury", race hustlers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621 "2013-07-26T20:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/81 "2013-07-27T04:29:05Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > What are “race hustlers”? They are to race what the agitators over the Mohammed cartoons are to religion. Real-life trolls trying to start a riot. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/82 "2013-07-27T04:41:16Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > What are “race hustlers”? Try this instead: Ask the people who use that phrase to name prominent, active proponents for racial equality who _aren’t_ “race hustlers”. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/83 "2013-07-27T05:30:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > . I guarantee you that oversights in the opposite direction were not happening. Can you point to any errors at all made by NBC that favored Zimmerman? Not having followed this story in any depth, I can’t point to any errors at all, and don’t know the details of the previous error you’re referring to. But your original quote was: > [@](#): > > It boggles the mind to imagine the failure to correct the misapprehension as a lack of journalistic skill or understanding. It seems far more likely to conclude it was deliberate – that reporting the race of the juror as definitively other than white would disrupt the narrative the media had crafted thus far. That’s a pretty strong quote, and one that pretty clearly implies not just carelessness, or even carelessness-more-likely-to-happen-in-one-direction, but conscience malfeasance and deception. Which I find incredibly unlikely… not that I necessarily think NBC would be above something like that, but because I think they’d be above something concerning an issue which is nearly 100% certain to be disproven by a simple photograph at some point in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/84 "2013-07-27T05:44:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s one of those terms certain people can’t stop using when they’re talking about racial issues. (“Race pimps” is another, and so is “thugs.”) I’m not sure why that is- maybe it’s genetic? When I think “race hustler,” I think of Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity, Rish Limbaugh, Matt Drudge, and a host of other media figures who get a lot of mileage out of events like the Zimmerman trial. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/85 "2013-07-27T06:02:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You many things, **John** , but stupid isn’t on the list. I find it hard to think you didn’t actually get the thrust of **Red** ’s question. But if you say so, I will believe you. OK, let me rephrase my question. Alert!!! Alert!!! …HYPOTHETICAL… Alert!!! Alert!!! If you had a gun, and someone had you pinned down and was bashing your head against a sidewalk, would you use the gun to defend yourself? Alert!!! Alert!!! …HYPOTHETICAL… Alert!!! Alert!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/86 "2013-07-27T06:46:04Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > What are “race hustlers”? Uppity niggers who don’t know their place. In all seriousness, I’m not using that term to offend people but because I’ve literally never heard the term used to describe a white person and the people who do it practically dare you to call them racist for using racially loaded language. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/87 "2013-07-27T07:37:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Are you speaking of the non-white juror who thought that Zimmerman “[got away with murder](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/justice/zimmerman-juror-b29-interview)”? Not thought. Felt. > [@](#): > > The juror, who used only her first name of Maddy out of concerns for her safety, told ABC that she and others on the panel felt Zimmerman was guilty, but that wasn’t enough. > > “You can’t put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty,” she said. “But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence.” The injustice! A jury having to consider the evidence! If you have a problem with that, may you live to be convicted by a jury’s feelings in defiance of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/88 "2013-07-27T10:14:15Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Are you claiming that’s unnatural? Not for conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/89 "2013-07-27T12:37:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, let me rephrase my question. > > Alert!!! Alert!!! …HYPOTHETICAL… Alert!!! Alert!!! > > If you had a gun, and someone had you pinned down and was bashing your head against a sidewalk, would you use the gun to defend yourself? > Alert!!! Alert!!! …HYPOTHETICAL… Alert!!! Alert!!! First off, that’s not a rephrasing of “How do you surrender to a guy who is already doing that?” It’s a completely different question. Second, it’s still not a hypothetical because you are asking it in the context of this thread. The second I say “Yes, I probably would,” you are going to use it against me to argue about Zimmerman. There’s no other rational reason to ask that question in this thread. And, BTW, if Zimmerman’s story is true, I agree that he was justified in using the level of force he did. My problem, as I’ve said many times, was that the was not immediately arrested while they searched for this. If they’d have done that, this whole thing would never have become about race. That’s why SYG is relevant, because that’s almost certainly why he wasn’t at least arrested. If that had happened, there would have been no story about how a white guy was able to shoot a black guy and walk away. And I must admit, I’m still not entirely convinced that SYG would have been assumed to apply if the races were different. I’m less concerned about Zimmerman’s racial motivations than those of the State of Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/90 "2013-07-27T12:56:20Z")
Why would you expect the police to hamper their investigation by immediately arresting him? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/91 "2013-07-27T13:10:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I must admit, I’m still not entirely convinced that SYG would have been assumed to apply if the races were different. I’m less concerned about Zimmerman’s racial motivations than those of the State of Florida. This was not a SYG case. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/92 "2013-07-27T13:12:52Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Not for conservatives. No retraction of your lies about me then? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/93 "2013-07-27T13:43:22Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Not having followed this story in any depth, I can’t point to any errors at all, and don’t know the details of the previous error you’re referring to. > > But your original quote was: > > That’s a pretty strong quote, and one that pretty clearly implies not just carelessness, or even carelessness-more-likely-to-happen-in-one-direction, but conscience malfeasance and deception. Which I find incredibly unlikely… not that I necessarily think NBC would be above something like that, but because I think they’d be above something concerning an issue which is nearly 100% certain to be disproven by a simple photograph at some point in the near future. And yet they spent a week broadcasting and rebroadcasting their version of Zimmerman’s call to the police: > [@](#): > > Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black. The whole country heard that, repeatedly, on both NBC Nightly News and on the Today show. But then the Washngton Post’s Eric Wemple published a startling fact: > [@](#): > > Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. > > Dispatcher: OK, and this guy - is he black, white or Hispanic? > > Zimmerman: He looks black. NBC did not say anything about this on the air. They issued a written statement: > [@](#): > > During our investigation it became evident that there was an error made in the production process that we deeply regret. We will be taking the necessary steps to prevent this from happening in the future and apologize to our viewers. They never explain to their viewers what the error was. Zimmerman sued them for defamation. That suit is still pending. After he sued, NBC explains at the end of almost every Zimmerman story, “George Zimmerman is suing NBC Universal, the parent company of this network, for defamation. NBC strongly denies the allegations.” What’s your opinion of that? Just carelessness? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/94 "2013-07-27T16:52:03Z")
I endorse **Big T** ’s answer, **John**. I also admire the crisp and succinct way it is expressed, and i doubt it could be improved upon, even with the addition of screaming fonts and hysterical capitalization. I would add only the piddling detail that I do not, and would not, carry a gun. And that renders your “hypothetical” absurd, since I am not remotely the person described as “you”. I will not live in Deadwood. You may if you wish, I can’t stop you, but I damn sure ain’t going with you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/95 "2013-07-27T17:04:18Z")
Eh. Substitute “use potentially deadly force” if you wish. There are lots of ways to defend oneself without a gun. The gun is not the key element. The key element is the reaction to being set upon by someone whom you think is threatening your life. Not the reaction to someone who simply bloodies your nose. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/96 "2013-07-27T17:05:22Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Everyone seems to forget that it’s the _defendant_ who gets the jury of his peers. Not the victim. The victim has zero constitutional rights. The exclusion of a juror based on race is a violation of the juror’s rights, not the defendant’s. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/97 "2013-07-27T17:25:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s your opinion of that? Just carelessness? No, assuming your description of what transpired is accurate\*, that’s clearly unethical and poor journalism. But I find it far more likely that it ended up on the air due to a collection of minor failings rather than some meeting in which Brian Williams said “well, this quote from George Zimmerman doesn’t make him appear NEARLY evil enough… can we edit it dishonestly to make him seem worse? We can? Muahahahahahaha!”. As for not issuing a clear retraction, that’s again inexcusable, but something easier to blame on embarrassment and a desire to sweep it under the carpet than a political agenda. \*I doubt you’re actually lying about what happened, but the context of NBC’s coverage of the whole case is large enough that there could clearly be plenty of examples of NBC being extremely fair that you just didn’t notice because you didn’t happen to be watching. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/98 "2013-07-27T17:29:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The exclusion of a juror based on race is a violation of the juror’s rights, not the defendant’s. No, it’s both. “Purposeful racial discrimination in selection of the venire violates a defendant’s right to equal protection, because it denies him the protection that a trial by jury is intended to secure.” It also violates the juror’s rights, and as a bonus it “…undermine[s] public confidence in the fairness of our system of justice.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/99 "2013-07-27T17:35:04Z")
Hm. Didn’t remember that part of Batson. Withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/100 "2013-07-27T17:38:22Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > No, assuming your description of what transpired is accurate\*, that’s clearly unethical and poor journalism. But I find it far more likely that it ended up on the air due to a collection of minor failings rather than some meeting in which Brian Williams said “well, this quote from George Zimmerman doesn’t make him appear NEARLY evil enough… can we edit it dishonestly to make him seem worse? We can? Muahahahahahaha!”. > > As for not issuing a clear retraction, that’s again inexcusable, but something easier to blame on embarrassment and a desire to sweep it under the carpet than a political agenda. > > \*I doubt you’re actually lying about what happened, but the context of NBC’s coverage of the whole case is large enough that there could clearly be plenty of examples of NBC being extremely fair that you just didn’t notice because you didn’t happen to be watching. Or not. You’re bending over backwards to give them the benefit of the doubt, I see. In my view, that’s justified for the first instance – the “bad edit.” When they take steps to hide in when the error is discovered, that suggests to me a consciousness of guilt. And then we have this third thing – the juror’s race. You are looking at each event in isolation, and saying that there’s no definitive proof of anything beyond poor journalism. But taking all three together? You seriously think that the most probable explanation is poor journalism, and again poor journalism, and, darn that unlucky Zimmerman, yet another bout of poor journalism? I will completely abandon this claim, by the way, if you can show me any instance of NBC addressing this more fairly “…that I didn’t happen” to catch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=6)