# Here's your "all white jury", race hustlers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621 "2013-07-26T20:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/121 "2013-07-28T12:44:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > She _seems_ to be hesitating? She _seems_ to be presented with a statement? She _seems_? > > There is a reason why _Blightbart_ is regarded with contempt by reasoning people. James O’Keefe. the Clueless Pimp is one, there are dozens. Literally, dozens. Ok, Brietbart sucks; we accept nothing he says. [Slate’s William Saletan: the media are a reporting that a juror said George Zimmerman got away with murder. That’s not true.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.single.html) The article makes virtually identical claims. And it’s not from Hades Underload Breitbart. Can you now address whatever merits may exist in the argument? (I haven’t looked at the issue at all and have no idea what position to take. Just irritated at **elucidator** ’s dismissal of the claims made based on the fact that Brietbart repeated them; if Brietbart reports that water boils at 100[sup]o[/sup] C at one atmosphere, we ought not to immediately upend the laws of physics simply because Brietbart has endorsed them.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/122 "2013-07-28T12:46:14Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You positively delight in the death of this black teen. You remind me of one of those people you see in old photos of lynchings, standing under the body and grinning for the camera. Your a racist piece of shit and you are obsessed with this case. But his first post wasn’t about the case, like you said it was? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/123 "2013-07-28T12:55:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > There’s certainly no definitive PROOF of anything. But there’s a middle possibility which I’m open to, which is a “let’s be more accepting of things that fit our narrative” type approach, in which certain types of reports would be more likely to be double checked than others, etc. The key difference here is that all of that can happen entirely unintentionally. I find it quite plausible that if we had some completely objective rating of the totality of NBC’s coverage of the Zimmerman/Martin case it would get a very low score for overall truth in reporting and a special red mark from the teacher for tending towards one interpretation of the facts. But that’s very very different from a conscious attempt to mislead or deceive. I’m open to that possibility as well. I just regard it is less likely as deliberate action. When three mistakes happen, all that require a major news organization to exercise dramatically poor journalism, all involving the same subject, each succeeding one makes it less likely that “mistake” is really in play. Not impossible, of course. > [@](#): > > That’s awfully vague. But I’m sure that if we got videotape (or the modern equivalent) of every second of coverage of the case on NBC (and possibly all of its affiliated organizations) there would be plenty of entire little segments in which nothing particularly slanted or objectionable was said. I mean, that has to be true purely by chance if nothing else. Of course. But my point is ordinary carelessness would suggest random errors would go in random directions. NBC’s errors all go in the same direction. I was asking you to refute that – to show even one of these unfortunate “errors” benefitting Zimmerman. If nothing slanted or objectionable is said, _that’s their job_. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/124 "2013-07-28T13:13:17Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You positively delight in the death of this black teen. You remind me of one of those people you see in old photos of lynchings, standing under the body and grinning for the camera. Your a racist piece of shit and you are obsessed with this case. God almighty, you’re an idiot. No one will take away your “Racial Good Guy” card if you don’t reflexively fling shit at anyone who doesn’t see things exactly the way you do. By the way, you remind me of those people you see in old, sepia-tinted photos riding those old-fashioned bicycles with the huge front wheels. Man, that makes my blood boil. Stop it! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/125 "2013-07-28T13:38:52Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You positively delight in the death of this black teen. You remind me of one of those people you see in old photos of lynchings, standing under the body and grinning for the camera. Your a racist piece of shit and you are obsessed with this case. You’re a twat who’s incapable of actually thinking for yourself. Just because NBC or whatever said this was a racist case, doesn’t make it so. Read my fucking posts _that I linked to_ and you’ll see my concern is with people falsely accused of murder, not with the colour of those killed. Dickhead. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/126 "2013-07-28T14:58:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And the medical examiner’s opinion that Z’s injuries were “very insignificant”? > > [Medical examiner calls Zimmerman's injuries 'very insignificant'](http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story) > > (Among others: google “Zimmerman injuries insignificant” and take your pick…) Continuous head pounding causes death. How long would you wait until shooting? Before death or after death? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/127 "2013-07-28T15:38:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ok, Brietbart sucks; we accept nothing he says. > > [Slate’s William Saletan: the media are a reporting that a juror said George Zimmerman got away with murder. That’s not true.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.single.html) > > The article makes virtually identical claims. > > And it’s not from Hades Underload Breitbart. Can you now address whatever merits may exist in the argument? > > (I haven’t looked at the issue at all and have no idea what position to take. Just irritated at **elucidator** ’s dismissal of the claims made based on the fact that Brietbart repeated them; if Brietbart reports that water boils at 100[sup]o[/sup] C at one atmosphere, we ought not to immediately upend the laws of physics simply because Brietbart has endorsed them.) Sure, let’s address the merits. Saletan says it’s not true that she said George Zimmerman got away with murder. And yet, from his article (my emphasis): > [@](#): > > In the unedited video, Roberts’ question is longer, with words that have been trimmed from the Nightline version, and Maddy pauses twice, for several seconds, as she struggles to answer it. “… George Zimmerman … That’s—George Zimmerman got away with murder. But you can’t get away from God.” > > You have to watch her, not just read her words, to pick up her meaning. As she struggles to answer, she looks as though she’s trying to reconcile the sentiment that’s been quoted to her—that Zimmerman “got away with murder”—with her own perspective. So she repeats the quote and adds words of her own, to convey what she thinks: that there’s a justice higher than the law, which Zimmerman will have to face. She thinks he’s morally culpable, not legally guilty. So, she says it, _but_… Would you say his header claim “That’s Not True” was accurate? And this was supposed to be an article about how media misleads? Same circus, different clown. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/128 "2013-07-28T16:24:41Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Sure, let’s address the merits. Saletan says it’s not true that she said George Zimmerman got away with murder. No, he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/129 "2013-07-28T16:38:02Z")
Well, I’m certainly convinced! Due to the Counselor’s brilliant and incisive argument, I have come to realize that _Breitbart_ reflects his own commitment to utter candor and non-partisan unbiased reporting. Why, had it not been for the relentless truthiness of Breitbart, we might never have known about ACORN’s wretched involvement in the importation of underage prostitutes into America, not to mention the cultural insight of how the modern American pimp dresses and comports himself. Truly, I am convinced! Breitbart embodies the very finest virtues of clear and non-partial reporting. Who better, I ask, to carry the banner of strict adherence to fact and strike the very heart of ignorance? I fling myself at your feet, Counselor, and beg your generous forbearance, in the hope that one day I might bask in the warm glow of your approval. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/130 "2013-07-28T16:39:05Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > No, he didn’t. Well. that certainly settles _that_! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/131 "2013-07-28T16:40:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I’m certainly convinced! Due to the Counselor’s brilliant and incisive argument, I have come to realize that _Breitbart_ reflects his own commitment to utter candor and non-partisan unbiased reporting. Why, had it not been for the relentless truthiness of Breitbart, we might never have known about ACORN’s wretched involvement in the importation of underage prostitutes into America, not to mention the cultural insight of how the modern American pimp dresses and comports himself. > > Truly, I am convinced! Breitbart embodies the very finest virtues of clear and non-partial reporting. Who better, I ask, to carry the banner of strict adherence to fact and strike the very heart of ignorance? > > I fling myself at your feet, Counselor, and beg your generous forbearance, in the hope that one day I might bask in the warm glow of your approval. What the @#$% does that have to do with Saletan? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/132 "2013-07-28T16:42:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well. that certainly settles _that_! If you’d like, you can read the goddam thing yourself. Then I’m sure you can compose another non sequitur that shows why you’re really right after all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/133 "2013-07-28T16:45:15Z")
Mr. Saletan has that rarest of gifts, the power to peer into the minds of people he does not know and has never met, and winnow away the chaff from the grain. Mr. Doyle Brunson is fortunate that Mr Saletan has not taken up poker, as his psychic gifts would render him unbeatable! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/134 "2013-07-28T17:01:02Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Continuous head pounding causes death. How long would you wait until shooting? Before death or after death? Contiuous head pounding causes death by way of massive injury. We have expert testimony that no such injuries occurred. Dare we hope that the obvious conclusion is apparent to you? ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/135 "2013-07-28T17:25:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Contiuous head pounding causes death by way of massive injury. We have expert testimony that no such injuries occurred. Dare we hope that the obvious conclusion is apparent to you? The problem being if we wait until the attack causes massive head injuries, we will have lost the ability to defend ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/136 "2013-07-28T17:59:41Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > > [@camille](#): > > > > Sure, let’s address the merits. Saletan says it’s not true that she said George Zimmerman got away with murder. > > No, he didn’t. From\*\* Bricker\*\*'s post: > [@Bricker](#): > > [Slate’s William Saletan: the media are a reporting that a juror said George Zimmerman got away with murder. That’s not true.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.single.html) I was replying to his post, and that was how he described what Saletan’s article said. If you have a problem with that interpretation, please take it up with **Bricker**. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/137 "2013-07-28T18:24:00Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Oh, you can’t, because you’re a fucking moron who doesn’t care about facts, just his own idiotic ideas. Have you met **Stoid**? You’d probably get along well. I see you’re finding new threads to make your always unsupported allegations about me. Have any quotes of me ignoring facts? No? What a shock. (For those who haven’t been following along, Steophan is under the adorable impression that whatever he believes, thinks and perceives is what constitutes a fact, and anyone who fails to understand and acknowledge this is insulting his gift of imparted knowledge. I fail to acknowledge quite a bit, having my own ideas…which, of course, being my own, and not his, are therefore, by definition, idiotic.) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/138 "2013-07-28T18:42:24Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Have any quotes of me ignoring facts? Quotes? There’s entire threads. What about the one where you claim to have successfully lost weight, and yet are larger than when you started? What about the one where you claimed to understand the law, and have it on your side, and yet were literally laughed out of court when your long suffering ex got his money back from you? The most amusing ones recently are the ones where you claim the defendant in a criminal trial isn’t actually entitled to presumption of innocence, we just say that out of tradition :smack: That’s the one were I repeatedly provided cites to show you wrong, from the actual jury instructions, which you countered with cites from a dictionary talking about completely different jurisdictions :smack::smack: You live in a fantasy world, where no amount of facts, reason, logic, law, or morality matters, or will even be acknowledged to exist, if contrary to the nonsensical and ever-changing “rules” of your delusion. Anyway, _[here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=9916821)_ my cite to support the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/139 "2013-07-28T18:46:36Z")
> [@camille](#): > > From\*\* Bricker\*\*'s post: > > I was replying to his post, and that was how he described what Saletan’s article said. If you have a problem with that interpretation, please take it up with **Bricker**. I was simply quoting the subtitle of the Saletan piece, not describing it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621/140 "2013-07-28T18:47:22Z")
> [@camille](#): > > From\*\* Bricker\*\*'s post: > > I was replying to his post, and that was how he described what Saletan’s article said. If you have a problem with that interpretation, please take it up with **Bricker**. Huh? Were you suggesting that Bricker is the counterpoint to the pro-Martin narrative much of the mainstream media was advancing when you said: > [@](#): > > So, she says it, but… Would you say his header claim “That’s Not True” was accurate? And this was supposed to be an article about how media misleads? > > Same circus, different clown. You were referring to the header to Saletan’s article. Bricker did paraphrase inaccurately, actually, but I’ll chalk that up to an honest mistake. Consequently, I have nothing to take up with him. But your statement… > [@](#): > > Saletan says it’s not true that she said George Zimmerman got away with murder. …seems to be a fail at crafting a hyper-literal gotcha. I’m not even saying Saletan’s interpretation of the interview is correct. But he didn’t say what you attributed to him, and, in fact, the interview with the juror he quotes specifically says otherwise–the not guilty verdict was the proper one. This is what the header says… > [@](#): > > The media are reporting that a juror says Zimmerman is guilty of murder. That’s not true. …and that’s accurate. He also specifically quotes her as saying Zimmerman got away with murder, but his point is that that was in response to that phrase as offered by the interviewer, and it was taken out of context, along with some other quotes, to suggest this juror was somehow bullied into agreeing with a verdict that was not the proper one. That was his point, that this was a more nuanced series of responses, and that nuance was not just ignored by the network, it was obliterated to create a specific impression that was misleading. I’ll decide for myself when I see the whole thing. But if it is as he interpreted it, this is a perfect example of what Bricker was commenting on–a slanted, deliberate act of pseudo-journalism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heres-your-all-white-jury-race-hustlers/664621.md?page=8)