# Heritage? Nah, just hate. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487 "2017-08-12T23:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/241 "2017-08-16T01:28:00Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But the Confederacy’s apologists most certainly did. I too grew up in Virginia, and I’ve heard all my life that the Civil War wasn’t about slavery, it was about states’ rights. I spent some of my formative years around Charlottesville, and considered it my home town even after we left, but I bled and bleed Yankee Blue and my whole relationship was problematic. Dad got told off by his co-workers, including Byrds (a name that is still big magic in both Virginias) for calling a Black waitress “miss” instead of “girl.” I recall an overlooked Whites Only drinking fountain towards the back of a walkway. Public school kids got Lee-Jackson Day and Jeff Davis’ birthday off. The state song was still: Carry me back to old Virginny. There’s where the cotton and corn and taters grow. There’s where the birds warble sweet in the spring-time. There’s where this old darkey’s heart am long’d to go. There’s where I labored so hard for old Massa, Day after day in the field of yellow corn; No place on earth do I love more sincerely Than old Virginny, the state where I was born. The town has changed, so I was saddened when those Nazi bastards brought shame along with their rifles. Anybody who makes the slightest attempt to whitewash them and their actions must realize that they sicken reasonable people. In 17 years I’ve never had an ignore list before, but I am using these threads to populate one. You people disgust me. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/242 "2017-08-16T01:41:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So both sides weren’t fighting? Both sides didn’t have weapons? You’re a bad person. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/243 "2017-08-16T01:48:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, that statue went up in the 20s. It went up when we were starting to have the first conversations widely about civil rights – when lynching was becoming publicly known, and publicly criticized widely, by more than just the black newspapers and journalists. > > It went up at the first sign that Jim Crow might not last forever. > > We can look back at the history of these monuments – most of them came up in the 20th century. Not to honor valor, but to be a public symbol against the changing values of the country. And in my town we just recently erected a monument to the dead from WWII. Are you suggesting that this monument is in response to a virulent attack on our… desire to… Sometimes statues and such go up long after the fact man. There are not always ulterior or sinister motives. > [@](#): > > Just one example – the inscription on the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place in New Orleans (recently removed): > > ``` > "[Democrats] McEnery and Penn having been elected governor and lieutenant-governor by the white people, were duly installed by this overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers, Governor Kellogg (white) and Lieutenant-Governor Antoine (colored). > > United States troops took over the state government and reinstated the usurpers but the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state." > > ``` That’s fucked up. Point conceded on that one. > [@](#): > > For one thing, this is ignoring the many, many black Southerners who suffered both before and after the war. For another, economic hardship doesn’t excuse bigotry. Not one iota. Southerners who still venerate the Confederacy refuse to accept the truth that the South was a monstrous, horrible place for black people up until very recently, and this was because of the behavior of their ancestors and forebears. They don’t fucking CARE! The historical sufferings of those that aren’t them are irrelevant . The present day suffering of those that ARE them do matter to them. Perhaps if the North had treated the South to reparations similar to the allies to the axis in WWII then these problems would have been mitigated. But my understanding is that the settlement was much more treaty of Versailles and so this is merely reaping what has been sown. But I am more than willing to be corrected if I’m wrong. Like I said we don’t study the civil war in depth here. Does a schizophrenic who hears voices saying the government has planted spybots in his scrotum believe it any less firmly because it is not supported by evidence? > [@](#): > > They weren’t “glory days” for any but the very rich. Looking back at the facts, plantation owners were very rich, and maybe a few merchants, but everyone else (especially slaves, but also most whites who didn’t own slaves) suffered and struggled. I certainly didn’t ignore that fact. I was talking about perception. As any HR widget will tell you perception is reality. This is the perception of the people you are currently decrying. People who come from states that ARE in fact impoverished, ARE in fact behind in every measure and ARE in fact largely undereducated. They perceive that their problems began with the civil war - how many people (like the SCA orc-fuckers) long for days gone by without considering the likelihood that they would have been serfs. I never claimed it was rational or based in fact. I claimed that this is their perception of reality. > [@](#): > > There has been a lot of progress in the South. And notably, it’s concentrated around urban centers which are the most diverse – Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans (despite the hurricanes!), etc. The cities, which embrace diversity and tolerance to a much greater extent, thrive far better than the rest of the South. Yes, a few major metropolitan areas. Sure. I notice that there are no cities in Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana (outside of New Orleans - which has always sounded cool but certainly not terribly prosperous) on your list. What about Virginia, North and South Carolina? I know that there are metropolitan centers in Florida, but is the majority of the state on par with Miami? Is most of Texas like Dallas? > [@](#): > > Tolerance and diversity isn’t just the goal – it’s also the cure. Tolerance through vitriolic intolerance and enforced diversity only exacerbate the problem. > [@](#): > > Millions of black people were murdered over the course of slavery. Even more were raped and brutalized. The goal wasn’t genocide, but the moral crime was just as great – it’s no less evil to kidnap and rape someone every day for 50 years than to kill them on day 1 How many million? Does it come close to 12 million? If not then the numbers don’t equate. If it was close to 12 million then was it done in the space of 4 years? If not then the scale does not equate. There has been no human atrocity EVER that comes near to the holocaust and to suggest that it is less than a singular event is to minimize the magnitude of it and I’m surprised that you would say otherwise. > [@](#): > > To say anything else just minimizes the incredible evil of slavery. Rape and brutality were everyday occurrences. There’s no way to maintain such brutal and total control of millions of slaves without the threat of incredible brutality (and accompanying actual brutality for transgressions) – only incredible mortal terror, every single day, could possibly control such a massive number of people for so long in such terrible bondage. Are you fucking kidding me? The Romans, The Greeks, The Egyptians, The British, The Belgians (who may have come close to the Nazis under Leopold II - though not in numbers) Do you really suppose that Jews weren’t raped, beaten and mutilated under the Nazis? How about LGBTQTS? Romanians, Poles, Russians. > [@](#): > > They are vile beyond tolerance. So what is to be done with people who are “vile beneath tolerance” I know a group that had an idea. “Oh,” but you say, “I’m justified in saying that.” What would Himmler have said? > [@](#): > > Why treat them better than that? See above. > [@](#): > > Things have improved greatly, but not so much that we don’t have to worry about the rise of such behavior again. The only way to prevent future Holocausts and lesser atrocities is to be constantly vigilant, constantly aware, and always confront, challenge, and denounce hateful groups and their rhetoric. And you believe that the best way to do this is to emulate the tactics and rhetoric of those you abhor? Did the Nazi’s begin with extermination or did they begin with shutting down and attacking dissent while claiming those they disagreed with were harming society and were beneath contempt? > [@](#): > > 1)No it wasn’t – only in Lost Cause fantasies. > 2)In the whitest areas, perhaps, but in the more diverse and tolerant areas, much more progress has been made. Diversity and tolerance and openness are the cures. > 3)This is not an excuse at all. Provide the context and I’ll be happy to respond but I’ve no idea what this is in response to. > [@](#): > > They’re lazy pathetic cowards, for the most part. Some of them are motivated killers, but most are losers who joined these groups because no one else would have them. > > This is America’s ISIS. The American Taliban. We can’t just let them spew what they want without challenge, any more than any other group spouting violent rhetoric. Holy fuck man! You are right, zealotry only exists on their side. > [@](#): > > It’s not hyperbole. No group has harmed America more, or more Americans, than white supremacists. These are the worst of us, and they must be challenged, confronted, and defeated. Then why did you guys spend so much time, money and blood blowing the fuck out of Iraqi’s (instead of the Saudi’s who actually did 9/11.) Fuck me man, it would have been a lot cheaper and easier to go after the ones who had done worse than 9/11. Wow man, just wow. Slavery is on par with the holocaust and the KKK is up there with ISIS and the Taliban. I see where you are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/244 "2017-08-16T01:54:55Z")
Many, many more millions than 12 were killed by the brutality of slavery in the US. Even more were raped and brutalized. The KKK and other white supremacists killed far, far more people than the Taliban and ISIS, if we look at all of American history. Yes, American slavery is on par with the Holocaust (pretty much as evil as evil gets), and white supremacists are up there with ISIS and the Taliban. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/245 "2017-08-16T01:55:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Octopus[/b Both sides showed up with weapons both sides got the fight they wanted - > [@Ravenman](#): > > Like World War II, right? Germany invaded Poland, then the Allies invaded Normandy. Violence on both sides. There’s no way to blame the violence on one side. I think the alt-left was heavily involved. Because of socialist FDR. Sad! No, more like WWI. \*Sorry **Octopus** if the quote wasn’t quite exact but it’s pretty damned close and any inaccuracy is unintentional and apologized for. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/246 "2017-08-16T01:57:02Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > And in my town we just recently erected a monument to the dead from WWII. Are you suggesting that this monument is in response to a virulent attack on our… desire to… > > Sometimes statues and such go up long after the fact man. There are not always ulterior or sinister motives. :rolleyes: > **[Why Are There Still So Many Confederate Monuments?](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/the-stubborn-persistence-of-confederate-monuments/479751/)** > > A new report identifies some 1,500 memorials to the Civil War’s losing cause, from schools to state holidays, ranging from the Deep South to the Pacific Northwest. > [@](#): > > But what about the importance of historical memory? Even that argument may be somewhat spurious, as the SPLC report demonstrates. Many of the treasured monuments that seem to offer a connection to the post-bellum South are actually much later, anachronistic constructions, and they tend to correlate closely with periods of fraught racial relations, as my colleague Yoni Appelbaum has noted. South Carolina didn’t hoist the battle flag in Columbia until 1961—the anniversary of the war’s start, but also the middle of the civil-rights push, and a time when many white Southerners were on the defensive about issues like segregation and voting rights. > [@](#): > > A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/247 "2017-08-16T02:00:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Many, many more millions than 12 were killed by the brutality of slavery in the US Cite? > [@](#): > > Even more were raped and brutalized. Cite? > [@](#): > > The KKK and other white supremacists killed far, far more people than the Taliban and ISIS, if we look at all of American history. Cite? > [@](#): > > Yes, American slavery is on par with the Holocaust (pretty much as evil as evil gets), and white supremacists are up there with ISIS and the Taliban. This I won’t ask for a cite on because it is opinion. The rest are claims of fact. Provide cites to substantiate your claims please. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/248 "2017-08-16T02:02:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > [Confederate Monuments and Their Complicated Legacy - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/the-stubborn-persistence-of-confederate-monuments/479751/) The rolleyes were unneeded. I’ve not once suggested I wasn’t willing to accept evidence. I’ve only asked for evidence. Thank-you for substantiating that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/249 "2017-08-16T02:03:02Z")
Are you fuvking kidding me? ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/250 "2017-08-16T02:05:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you fuvking kidding me? To whom are you fuvking speaking? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/251 "2017-08-16T02:10:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No. > > I answered your question – now actually make an effort to address some of my points, please. What points do you want addressed? Outside of actual Nazi’s and a few other fringe elements people today generally recognize that genocide and slavery are bad things. But I get tired of plainly stupid and overly emotional people who are willing to advocate dismissing fundamental ideals in order to virtue signal. It’s counterproductive and too many on this board and elsewhere are far too illiberal in their thought. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/252 "2017-08-16T02:11:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You’re a bad person. Because I’m not jumping in with the let’s bash and murder people crowd? Your sense of morality and reason is warped. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/253 "2017-08-16T02:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America. > > And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000. That’s right: a tiny percentage. Source - [The Root](http://www.theroot.com/how-many-slaves-landed-in-the-us-1790873989) So to do the math on the whole new world slave trade: 1866-1525=341 Assuming that each slave was murdered raped or brutalized that works out to 366567 per year. The Holocaust - 12 million dead between 1941 and 1945 1945-1941=4 that works out to 3 million per year. Yu, that seems about equal. The numbers have conclusively shown that the New World slave trade and the fucking holocaust are completely equivalent. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/254 "2017-08-16T02:20:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What points do you want addressed? > > Outside of actual Nazi’s and a few other fringe elements people today generally recognize that genocide and slavery are bad things. > > But I get tired of plainly stupid and overly emotional people who are willing to advocate dismissing fundamental ideals in order to virtue signal. It’s counterproductive and too many on this board and elsewhere are far too illiberal in their thought. How about this one: I’m not being disingenuous. I don’t think you actually agree with those examples, but I think they’re illustrative of my point – that the presence of Nazis and white supremacists really does change the game. I think it’s probably reasonable to think they’ll be violent, and maybe to be prepared for violence. And even with this, it’s still important to directly oppose them. I wouldn’t be for starting fights, but being ready for a fight isn’t the same thing as starting one… and with Nazis and white supremacists, being ready for a fight might be necessary for life and limb. Or how about the ones about the monuments? Why was it okay for Germans to tear down Nazi monuments, but not for us to do the same for confederate ones? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/255 "2017-08-16T02:29:53Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Cite? > > Cite? > > Cite? > > This I won’t ask for a cite on because it is opinion. > > The rest are claims of fact. Provide cites to substantiate your claims please. You might have to do some of the math yourself (I can’t cite right now) - looking at slave population charts, and estimated child mortality rates and life expectancies, there were at the very least a few tens of millions of slaves in America for our whole history. A lot more than 12 million. All were subject to routine brutalization, including rape. Most died considerable younger than free Americans due to routine brutality. Considering the very significant amount of European ancestry (20 to 30 percent) that African Americans have on average, and considering the essentially godlike powers a plantation slave master (and importantly any male overseers and adolescent sons) had over his slaves, it’s very likely that almost every young female slave was raped, many or most repeatedly and routinely. Male slaves were often forced to have sex with other slaves in order to “breed” desirable characteristics - that was also rape. It doesn’t get any worse than that. It doesn’t get any worse than the Holocaust (in which some is my relatives died) either. Both are as bad as humans get. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/256 "2017-08-16T02:30:27Z")
The Mongols likely killed far more people than the Nazis ever did. The estimate of the number of people Stalin killed through starvation and purges varies from 35-60 million. To use the Nazi Holocaust as your marker to minimize the price and horrors of slavery is despicable. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/257 "2017-08-16T02:31:37Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Source - [The Root](http://www.theroot.com/how-many-slaves-landed-in-the-us-1790873989) > > So to do the math on the whole new world slave trade: > 1866-1525=341 > Assuming that each slave was murdered raped or brutalized that works out to 366567 per year. > > The Holocaust - 12 million dead between 1941 and 1945 > 1945-1941=4 > that works out to 3 million per year. > > Yu, that seems about equal. > > The numbers have conclusively shown that the New World slave trade and the fucking holocaust are completely equivalent. > > Ignorance fought. That’s only the ones who came by ship. Many more were born in America, and all were subject to rape and brutalization. You might feel that killing someone immediately is way worse than chaining them up and raping them for the rest of their lives, but I don’t. They’re both terribly evil. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/258 "2017-08-16T02:31:56Z")
Its not a fucking competition! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/259 "2017-08-16T02:36:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Because I’m not jumping in with the let’s bash and murder people crowd? Your sense of morality and reason is warped. You’re a bad person because you do bad things. You let your bigotry and fear master you; the struggle of good people is to work their entire lives to master their bigotry and fear. You are so dominated by your fear, fear of your inadequacies, fear of people different than you, fear that you haven’t done much with your life, that you now find yourself defending nazis. Think back to a time when you weren’t this broken, could that person have imagined what a failure you’ve become spiritually and emotionally? You are a bad person, stop. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/260 "2017-08-16T02:38:01Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Source - [The Root](http://www.theroot.com/how-many-slaves-landed-in-the-us-1790873989) > > So to do the math on the whole new world slave trade: > 1866-1525=341 > Assuming that each slave was murdered raped or brutalized that works out to 366567 per year. > > The Holocaust - 12 million dead between 1941 and 1945 > 1945-1941=4 > that works out to 3 million per year. > > Yu, that seems about equal. > > The numbers have conclusively shown that the New World slave trade and the fucking holocaust are completely equivalent. > > Ignorance fought. Hey folks, at least he admits the Holocaust happened, so there’s that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487.md?page=14)