# Heritage? Nah, just hate. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487 "2017-08-12T23:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/101 "2017-08-13T23:00:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Seriously, anyone who thinks that denying that history happened is a fucking idiot. Nobody has ever once denied that it happened. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/102 "2017-08-13T23:01:07Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Seriously, anyone who thinks that denying that history happened is a fucking idiot. I agree with you for once! But who here is doing that? ---
**Author:** ![GreenHell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@GreenHell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenHell)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/103 "2017-08-13T23:10:50Z")
Many Acadians in Louisiana did simply refuse to fight, or left the ranks of their captors. The conflict was Le Geurre Confederalle (spelling is probably borked, but “The Confederates’ War” in English). My ancestors largely had no interest in risking their lives fighting against their own country to keep rich, mostly Anglo, slaveowners in the style to which they had grown accustomed. For their trouble, many were recaptured, some were murdered, and in at least one case, the traitors took the effort to summon their families so they could witness the mass murder of their kin. So, if I don’t seem broken up over the “loss of our history”, maybe it’s because my people suffered at the hands of the insurgents before they got their richly deserved trouncing. To put it in terms the anti-PC alt-right might understand: “Let’s drop the bullshit. Your side lost snowflake, handily. If you are determined to resurrect the fight, get ready to lose all over again. The South wasn’t so glorious when the mostly barefoot ‘soldiers’ were starving so badly they were picking grain out of horseshit and the South hasn’t ‘risen’ in a century and a half, so excuse me if I’m skeptical”. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/104 "2017-08-13T23:36:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I can defend Robert E. Lee. He was born in 1807. Sure, he was a racist and a defender of slavery. But he grew up in a society that was racist and defended slavery. > > It’s 2017. Everyone knows better now. Anyone waving a confederate flag is not only a racist but they’re somebody who chose to be a racist. Lee was a descendant of slave owning planters. Throughout Lee’s life, the ethics of slavery were in hot debate. When Lee was young, his father died in the West Indies, where the slave based economy was facing increasing pressure from England. After Lee’s father died, Lee and his family were financial supported by one of their relatives, who was a plantation and slave owner. As an educated military officer, Lee would have been well aware of the military (there had been quite a few slave rebellions in the Caribbean and the USA), political, economic, and yes, ethical issues of slavery. By 1933, slavery was illegal in almost all of the British Empire – a fact of which Lee must have been aware. Despite having full knowledge of the ethics (or lack thereof) of slavery, Lee freely chose to support slavery in 1861, and was responsible for the killing of thousands upon thousands of Americans in his fight to continue slavery. His was a truly vile but fully informed decision, and he bears full responsibility for his actions that arose out of his decision. Following the rebellion, Lee strenuously opposed blacks being permitted to vote, and he pressed for Blacks to be deported. After the rebellion, he had the opportunity to repent his evil ways, but instead doubled down. He is one of the evil ones, as should be apparent by the great regard with which he is held by his Confederate-Nazi minions today. And speaking of today, you have a president who was elected in part by the Confederate-Nazis who is into making it more difficult for people of colour to vote and making it easier to deport people of colour. The president that your country elected is just another evil bigot. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/105 "2017-08-13T23:57:05Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I agree with you for once! But who here is doing that? He can’t answer; he’s adept at shitting on threads, though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/106 "2017-08-14T00:18:40Z")
[Lee’s views on slavery were common for the time:](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/) > [@](#): > > I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/107 "2017-08-14T00:36:41Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Seriously, anyone who thinks that denying that history happened is a fucking idiot. History is remembered through education, museum curators, interpretive exhibits at significant locations, and research librarians. Statues in public parks are decorations, not history. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/108 "2017-08-14T00:38:19Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Canada, my country, is somewhat unique We have [anti-hate laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada) that come into play, whereas the USA does not have such protection. We have reasonable restrictions on firearms, whereas the USA does not have such protection. The constitutionally enshrined failures in these two areas in the USA lack reasonable checks and balances, making it easier for bigotry to spread in the USA and to be very dangerous when it organizes. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/109 "2017-08-14T00:40:50Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > History is remembered through education, museum curators, interpretive exhibits at significant locations, and research librarians. > > Statues in public parks are decorations, not history. Not just decorations, but statements by the community of what the community values and admires. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/110 "2017-08-14T00:51:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Lee’s views on slavery were common for the time:](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/) White man’s burden. They were dragged off in chains, sold into slavery, beaten into submission, whipped, tortured, mutilated and killed, for their own good. I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/111 "2017-08-14T00:52:57Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Not just decorations, but statements by the community of what the community values and admires. Slavery, treason, rebellion, and getting poor dumb white trash crackers to do the fighting for the rich plantation owners. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/112 "2017-08-14T00:59:34Z")
Indeed, a more merciful Reconstruction would have saved this country a lot of trouble. But a truly merciful Reconstruction would have been even less to the liking of Lee and his fellow honorless traitors, because they’re not the ones who needed mercy the most. A merciful Reconstruction would have meant back wages paid to all of the former slaves, paid if necessary through the confiscation and sale of the plantations. We’re still suffering from the festering self-inflicted wounds of slavery, because we’ve never really tried to make things right. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/113 "2017-08-14T01:16:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Indeed, a more merciful Reconstruction would have saved this country a lot of trouble. But a truly merciful Reconstruction would have been even less to the liking of Lee and his fellow honorless traitors, because they’re not the ones who needed mercy the most. A merciful Reconstruction would have meant back wages paid to all of the former slaves, paid if necessary through the confiscation and sale of the plantations. We’re still suffering from the festering self-inflicted wounds of slavery, because we’ve never really tried to make things right. You realize that slavery was an ancient and world wide institution? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/114 "2017-08-14T01:23:24Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Not all - or even most - racists are genocidal. Most simply want people that belong to a certain skin colour to return to the area that others of their skin colour came from. If they believe that so strongly, why haven’t they moved back to Europe? I haven’t heard of any of them selling up and emigrating. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/115 "2017-08-14T01:30:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You realize that slavery was an ancient and world wide institution? Holy shit, that is so smart! Thanks Trump for bringing this new generation of smart dumbfucks to the world!! MAGA MOTHERFUCKERS!!! ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/116 "2017-08-14T01:32:18Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > We have [anti-hate laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada) that come into play, whereas the USA does not have such protection. We have reasonable restrictions on firearms, whereas the USA does not have such protection. The constitutionally enshrined failures in these two areas in the USA lack reasonable checks and balances, making it easier for bigotry to spread in the USA and to be very dangerous when it organizes. I fail to see how any of that is relevant to the portion of what I said that you quoted. Louis Riel led an armed rebellion in Manitoba. He lost and we allowed him to split to the USA. He came back and did it a 2nd time in Saskatchewan. He lost, we kept him and we hanged him. Now Manitoba has a day celebrating him and he is considered a Canadian hero. I only mentioned him in the context of “all traitors must die” “treason must be punished” etc. We are unique in that we venerate a rebel. Does England have a William Wallace day? There is Guy Fawllkes’ day - but that is dedicated to the denigration of his memory. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/117 "2017-08-14T01:35:08Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Holy shit, that is so smart! Thanks Trump for bringing this new generation of smart dumbfucks to the world!! MAGA MOTHERFUCKERS!!! Calm down. We don’t want you to have a stroke. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/118 "2017-08-14T01:39:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **octopus** : > > You realize that slavery was an ancient and world wide institution? Yes. Do you realize that American slavery specifically was neither worldwide nor ancient? We bear no responsibility for ancient Roman or Hebrew or Chinese or Indian slavery. We do bear responsibility for our own slavery. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/119 "2017-08-14T01:53:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes. Do you realize that American slavery specifically was neither worldwide nor ancient? We bear no responsibility for ancient Roman or Hebrew or Chinese or Indian slavery. We do bear responsibility for our own slavery. Slavery was still pretty widespread world wide though. Back wages were probably not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487/120 "2017-08-14T02:42:17Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I agree with you for once! But who here is doing that? His imagination. Dementia will do that, don’tcha know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heritage-nah-just-hate/793487.md?page=7)