# Herman Cain: Action Hero **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947 "2011-09-11T16:12:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/221 "2011-10-11T00:53:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sorry, are you actually equating the former New York City mayor AND Tennessee Senator to little ol’ Herman Cain? You’re right, it’s absurd to compare a multi-term successful executive of a polity of 8 million people to a guy who’s never held any elected office in his life. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/222 "2011-10-11T10:52:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Herman Cain has three years of radio shows that are going to be examined very closely by his adversaries, Democrat and Republican. I don’t doubt there will provocative embers that will fanned to flames, and Cain will return from whence he came. Herman Cain endorsed Mitt Romney last cycle. The Republicans are going to have a very, very tough time finding anything critical he said about either Romney or perhaps Paul (who also ran). He’s good friends with Bachmann and I can never remember an illword said about her, same goes with Gingrich. That leaves Santorum, Huntsman, and Johnson - good luck. But, as I said previously, he was very critical of the McCain campaign strategy so that may be a point they try to exploit. Then again, who wasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/223 "2011-10-11T13:56:10Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Shit just got real. “All but!” I love it. When is that national primary again? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/224 "2011-10-11T14:07:53Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > I’m sorry, are you actually equating the former New York City mayor AND Tennessee Senator to little ol’ Herman Cain? > > This is getting better and better by the day. I’m sorry to interfere with your fake misunderstanding of that post, but Giuliani didn’t forget to campaign - he was the putative front runner, but his poll numbers kept tanking and he withdrew from state after state. Ultimately he was not even close to competitive. This is the guy who was supposed to be the front runner in 2007, remember. He couldn’t even get into the conversation when people started voting in 2008 because it turned out the voters couldn’t stand him. It was pretty similar with Fred Thompson: he had government experience and Hollywood chops, maybe he’d remind people of Reagan! Except not. He turned out to be uninterested at best, and was not a contender. What happened in 2008, basically, is that McCain was one of the leaders in name recognition and appeal, but the conservative wing of the party didn’t like him very much, so they flitted from candidate to candidate to look for an alternative. In the end they couldn’t find a good option and McCain was convincing enough to get the nomination. Does that sound familiar to you at all? Because it should, and it’s not good news for Cain. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/225 "2011-10-11T14:11:39Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Shit just got real. **Abloy** , do you believe that a second-place finish in NH (if it doesn’t follow an Iowa win - I’d really like to see a fresh Iowa poll), will be enough to keep Cain going into SC (which Cain has a good shot in) and NV (which Romney is sure to win)? Do you think he has the team and resources for a long campaign? > [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Herman Cain endorsed Mitt Romney last cycle. I think you are beginning to stumble on the reality of the situation. Cain has one purpose - help split up the anti-Romney vote. If he can manage to win in Iowa and SC (or at least keep Perry from winning either), then the field opens up beautifully for Romney when the big states vote. In return, Cain gets either a VP nod or a very nice administration post. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/226 "2011-10-11T14:16:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m sorry to interfere with your fake misunderstanding of that post, but Giuliani didn’t forget to campaign - he was the putative front runner, but his poll numbers kept tanking and he withdrew from state after state. Ultimately he was not even close to competitive. This is the guy who was supposed to be the front runner in 2007, remember. He couldn’t even get into the conversation when people started voting in 2008 because it turned out the voters couldn’t stand him. It was pretty similar with Fred Thompson: he had government experience and Hollywood chops, maybe he’d remind people of Reagan! Except not. He turned out to be uninterested at best, and was not a contender. I never said he forgot to campaign all together. I said he hedged all his bets in Florida. > [@](#): > > What happened in 2008, basically, is that McCain was one of the leaders in name recognition and appeal, but the conservative wing of the party didn’t like him very much, so they flitted from candidate to candidate to look for an alternative. In the end they couldn’t find a good option and McCain was convincing enough to get the nomination. Does that sound familiar to you at all? Because it should, and it’s not good news for Cain. Haha, yawn. > [@](#): > > Abloy, do you believe that a second-place finish in NH (if it doesn’t follow an Iowa win - I’d really like to see a fresh Iowa poll), will be enough to keep Cain going into SC (which Cain has a good shot in) and NV (which Romney is sure to win)? > > Do you think he has the team and resources for a long campaign? He’ll finish strong in Iowa, if not win it. Second in NH, probably. He’ll win in most of the South, including SC and Florida. Yes, he has the resources and money. > [@](#): > > I think you are beginning to stumble on the reality of the situation. Cain has one purpose - help split up the anti-Romney vote. If he can manage to win in Iowa and SC (or at least keep Perry from winning either), then the field opens up beautifully for Romney when the big states vote. > > In return, Cain gets either a VP nod or a very nice administration post. He won’t get the VP nod. Treasury Secretary works fine for me. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/227 "2011-10-11T14:22:17Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Yes, he has the resources and money. Do you have a cite for this? The last report I saw was this: > [@](#): > > Cain hasn’t released his third-quarter fundraising totals yet, but as of June 30, he had raised only $2.5 million and had spent $2 million of it. > > Read more: [The Business Journals | Portfolio](http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/elections/2011/10/06/cain-can-win-but-he-needs-money/#ixzz1aU05bnD5) > [@](#): > > He won’t get the VP nod. I thought that as well, but the more I look at the numbers I think managing to get, say, 20% of the black vote swings Virginia back to the GOP, locks down NC, etc. It really helps narrow the playing field. It also helps Romney pick up the “I didn’t vote for McCain, I voted for Palin” crowd - and base support and enthusiasm will be Romney’s biggest weakness. > [@](#): > > Treasury Secretary works fine for me. That’s probably even more realistic than VP (and way, way more than POTUS). ETA: For comparison’s sake, Perry raised $17 million this past quarter. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/228 "2011-10-11T14:25:45Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? Nope, anecdotal conversations with members of his campaign staff. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/229 "2011-10-11T14:27:29Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > The last report I saw was this:I thought that as well, but the more I look at the numbers I think managing to get, say, 20% of the black vote swings Virginia back to the GOP, locks down NC, etc. It really helps narrow the playing field. It also helps Romney pick up the “I didn’t vote for McCain, I voted for Palin” crowd - and base support and enthusiasm will be Romney’s biggest weakness.That’s probably even more realistic than VP (and way, way more than POTUS). And now you know why the liberals are scared to death of this man and will do anything in their power to discredit him and his supporters. We just laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/230 "2011-10-11T14:28:53Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > I never said he forgot to campaign all together. The point is that he didn’t forget to campaign. He kept withdrawing from states because the polls showed he was not going to be competitive in any of them. In the end he had to bet on Florida (where he was also not doing well) because he was running out of time. That didn’t work either. > [@](#): > > Haha, yawn. Translation: “I don’t want to admit this is probably true.” > [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Nope, anecdotal conversations with members of his campaign staff. Well _that’s_ convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/231 "2011-10-11T14:33:52Z")
Got my wish on a new Iowa poll: [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/186657-poll-cain-closing-gap-on-romney-in-iowa](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/186657-poll-cain-closing-gap-on-romney-in-iowa) Cain in second, with Romney winning. If Romney wins Iowa and NH it’s basically over. And by Cain taking over Perry’s support (and Perry obviously not dropping out until after Iowa), that’s looking more likely than before the Cain surge. As to the “scared” and “discredit him and his supporters”, I don’t think I’ve done anything of the sort. I’m merely attempting to discuss some of the realities of the situation. One of which is: Cain needs money, and lots of it. That’s the next data point I’m awaiting - quarterly fund-raising numbers (with cash on hand). When I see a big number there or an Iowa poll with Cain in first, we can talk again. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/232 "2011-10-11T14:35:10Z")
Also wanted to add: holy shit are those numbers terrible for Rick Perry. He needs a good performance tonight (and a Cain mistake or three) in the worst way. His money will carry him for awhile, but new donors aren’t gonna buck up for a candidate polling below 10 in the early states. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/233 "2011-10-11T15:31:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The point is that he didn’t forget to campaign. He kept withdrawing from states because the polls showed he was not going to be competitive in any of them. In the end he had to bet on Florida (where he was also not doing well) because he was running out of time. That didn’t work either. Here, debate this to death and try to figure out what actually happened. Then, applied what you’ve discerned AFTER the following sentence: “Now, all Cain has to do to follow Guiliani’s failure is” You’re so hung up on the trivial details of my comments it’s hilarious. > [@](#): > > Translation: “I don’t want to admit this is probably true.” More like: “Because history always repeats itself and because a CEO/Talk Show host was in second place last time around and your analogies are fucking stupid.” > [@](#): > > Well _that’s_ convincing. If I told someone I know what throwing a newspaper into a garbage can looks like, and someone asked for a cite, would you really expect me to produce a tangible one? Do you honestly expect me to produce a citation of fairly confidential campaign information? Next time I’m on the phone or talking to campaign staff in person, I’ll make sure to have the Washington Post nearby that can capture the details, publish it, and I’ll have a citation just for you sweetheart. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/234 "2011-10-11T15:39:31Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > You’re so hung up on the trivial details of my comments it’s hilarious. I’m glad you find so many things hilarious. Unfortunately saying over and over again “this is hilarious” is not a counterargument. Which is too bad, because it’s becoming your stock response to everything. > [@](#): > > More like: "Because history always repeats itself and because a CEO/Talk Show host was in second place last time around and your analogies are fucking stupid. The point - which you’re still trying to avoid facing - is that being in second place (or first place) months before anybody votes isn’t worth much. Nobody said history always repeats itself. In point of fact, though, a lot of candidates have peaked before anybody voted and then failed when it matter. 2008 was not the first time that happened. > [@](#): > > Do you honestly expect me to produce a citation of fairly confidential campaign information? You actually don’t have a citation at all. You have an assertion from someone who has a vested interest in the outcome, so there’s no reason to trust your source. A citation would have a name and a date and some level of fact checking. You say someone in Cain’s campaign told you they have plenty of money. What do you expect them to say? “We’re broke?” ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/235 "2011-10-11T15:41:25Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Got my wish on a new Iowa poll: [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/186657-poll-cain-closing-gap-on-romney-in-iowa](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/186657-poll-cain-closing-gap-on-romney-in-iowa) > > Cain in second, with Romney winning. If Romney wins Iowa and NH it’s basically over. And by Cain taking over Perry’s support (and Perry obviously not dropping out until after Iowa), that’s looking more likely than before the Cain surge. Spell defeat for the Romney campaign, then. Iowa and South Carolina are deadheats at this point, with Romney slightly leading in Iowa and Cain slightly in South Carolina. If Romney has Nevada locked up, then the same can be said for Cain and Florida. Let’s not forget that only 55% of GOP voters, according to Gallup, know who Herman Cain is. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/236 "2011-10-11T15:43:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m glad you find so many things hilarious. Unfortunately saying over and over again “this is hilarious” is not a counterargument. Which is too bad, because it’s becoming your stock response to everything. And listen to me carefully when I say, I don’t give a flying fuck. > [@](#): > > The point - which you’re still trying to avoid facing - is that being in second place (or first place) months before anybody votes isn’t worth much. Nobody said history always repeats itself. In point of fact, though, a lot of candidates have peaked before anybody voted and then failed when it matter. 2008 was not the first time that happened. Good deal. Did any candidate, from any previous election, start out dead last in virtually all polls and continue to progress from that point to second and then first in the polls? Cain has done it. Polls now have him as the GOP front runner. Two weeks ago, he was second. When is the surge over? > [@](#): > > You actually don’t have a citation at all. You have an assertion from someone who has a vested interest in the outcome, so there’s no reason to trust your source. A citation would have a name and a date and some level of fact checking. You say someone in Cain’s campaign told you they have plenty of money. What do you expect them to say? “We’re broke?” When it’s published in a few weeks, let’s talk then! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/237 "2011-10-11T15:47:55Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > And listen to me carefully when I say, I don’t give a flying fuck. I don’t like posting and moderating in the same thread when I can avoid it, but I am getting tired of this attitude from you. If you really don’t give a flying fuck, _stop debating_. If you do want to debate, the rules require you to be civil and act like an adult. You can post like this in the Pit, but not in the other forums. If you keep doing this, you’re not going to be allowed to post here much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/238 "2011-10-11T15:55:09Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Nope, anecdotal conversations with members of his campaign staff. …through the screen door when they were distributing flyers… ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/239 "2011-10-11T15:59:57Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > If Romney has Nevada locked up, then the same can be said for Cain and Florida. Why do you say that? The polls show Romney in the lead in Florida: [RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - Florida Republican Presidential Primary](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/fl/florida_republican_presidential_primary-1597.html) I say Romney has Nevada because he carried it hugely in 2008, and nobody else seems to even be competing there this cycle. There are a lot of Mormons in Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/240 "2011-10-11T16:07:03Z")
Look, something like how much resources a campaign has isn’t really something you _need_ to get firsthand from a member of the staff. The numbers are public. Everyone in the country who cares to find out, can find the same numbers that **Jas09** did, and those numbers do not equate to “plenty of resources”. > [@](#): > > And now you know why the liberals are scared to death of this man and will do anything in their power to discredit him and his supporters. > > We just laugh. The liberals _aren’t_ scared of this guy; we’re the ones laughing at him. Well, OK, maybe conservatives are laughing at him, too; I’ll take your word on that. Yes, if this guy ever got into a position of power, it’d be an absolute disaster, but that’s really not something to be afraid of, because it ain’t gonna happen. And the fact that some people think it _could_ happen is just hilarious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947.md?page=13)