# Herman Cain: Action Hero **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947 "2011-09-11T16:12:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/81 "2011-09-30T16:22:34Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Yes, I think that would be his solution, because there is no other. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > They can’t set sales tax by zone, populations are too much in flux to do that. They already do it. Do counties, and perhaps cities, in your state not vary in their sales tax rate? > [@](#): > > Are they gonna average out all the incomes within a zip code or something? You’ve got me. The idea I mentioned was purely my take and opinion. It in no way represents Cain’s goal for the empowerment zones. > [@](#): > > If there’s one rich guy living in an area he would skew the average and possibly make everyone around him ineligible for the break. Is there some reason they couldn’t account for these rareties and exclude them? Rhetorical question, no, there isn’t. > [@](#): > > Oh, and maybe make him a target for everyone who wants an extra 2% off their bags of Cheetos. I would be tempted myself. 😛 2/10. Troll harder. > [@](#): > > Or, you could have the IRS send out some kind of discount cards to people which they can use when they buy. How would that fly? The Republicans are already up in arms over the “intrusiveness” of the IRS. Hey that’s another solution. It’s definitely better than bringing tax forms to the grocery store, right? ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/82 "2011-09-30T16:27:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oh, yeah, and how are businesses going to document that they sold thousands of products to different people at different tax rates, and calculate that tax, and then justify their payment to the IRS at an audit, which they will have to be able to do. That would be a HUGELY expensive cost for retailers. Yeah! And how are businesses going to be able to sell goods to other businesses and agencies that are tax exempt, calculate that lack of tax, and then justify their payment to the IRS at an audit, which they will have to be able to do?!?!?! Wait, they already do? Oh. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/83 "2011-09-30T16:34:08Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Yeah! > > And how are businesses going to be able to sell goods to other businesses and agencies that are tax exempt, calculate that lack of tax, and then justify their payment to the IRS at an audit, which they will have to be able to do?!?!?! > > Wait, they already do? Oh. That’s a rare occurrence. And I’ve worked for not for profits all my life. For small purchases, they don’t even bother with the tax shit – they just pay it because the hassle of setting up a special account isn’t worth it. In impoverished areas, retailers would probably be discounting more than half their sales, instead of maybe 5% or less. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/84 "2011-09-30T16:39:58Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > That’s a rare occurrence. And I’ve worked for not for profits all my life. For small purchases, they don’t even bother with the tax shit – they just pay it because the hassle of setting up a special account isn’t worth it. You’re addressing the buyer’s point of view, not the seller’s. You previously addressed the seller’s point of view, not the buyer. Good job. > [@](#): > > In impoverished areas, retailers would probably be discounting more than half their sales, instead of maybe 5% or less. Kind of like they already do to offset state sales tax? Do you have any supporting evidence for this stance? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/85 "2011-09-30T16:45:42Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > …Kind of like they already do to offset state sales tax?.. I do no understand what you’re saying here. Do some states already give breaks on sales tax to the poor? I haven’t heard of it, but I’m willing to be educated. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/86 "2011-09-30T17:09:49Z")
Both a flat tax and a national sales tax: two instruments that disproportionately punish the poor. Who’s conducting class warfare again? ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/87 "2011-09-30T17:32:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I do no understand what you’re saying here. Do some states already give breaks on sales tax to the poor? I haven’t heard of it, but I’m willing to be educated. You mentioned that retailers would slash prices in order to offset the new taxes impact on final prices. I asked if they already do it for state/local sales tax. I’m basically implying that they don’t already do it, so what makes you think they would start? > [@](#): > > Both a flat tax and a national sales tax: two instruments that disproportionately punish the poor. Who’s conducting class warfare again? Do you guys only hear and read what you want? This is the 3rd time someone has ignored the other two 9’s. Also, read up on the Fair Tax’s monthly prebates. Cain wants the Fair Tax, which has provisions to essentially nullify any tax burdens a national sales tax will have on those who make less. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/88 "2011-09-30T19:25:56Z")
OK, let’s make this as simple as possible: Under Cain’s plan, whose taxes would go up? _Someone_’s has to. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/89 "2011-09-30T20:20:19Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > You mentioned that retailers would slash prices in order to offset the new taxes impact on final prices. > > I asked if they already do it for state/local sales tax. > > I’m basically implying that they don’t already do it, so what makes you think they would start? > > Do you guys only hear and read what you want? This is the 3rd time someone has ignored the other two 9’s. > > Also, read up on the Fair Tax’s monthly prebates. Cain wants the Fair Tax, which has provisions to essentially nullify any tax burdens a national sales tax will have on those who make less. Are you dyslexic or something? Two of the nines are the flat tax and the sales tax. The third one is to reduce corporate taxes from 35% to 9%, which is just flat dangerous, not to mention stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/90 "2011-09-30T21:43:42Z")
This Cain fellow sounds rather not right, wot? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/91 "2011-09-30T23:53:15Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > And how are businesses going to be able to sell goods to other businesses and agencies that are tax exempt, calculate that lack of tax, and then justify their payment to the IRS at an audit, which they will have to be able to do?!?!?! Given that you admit “I have no idea how he wants to accomplish it, …”, what, precisely, are you arguing for? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/92 "2011-10-01T01:04:08Z")
Oh please, Cain is a joke. Wonder if he can develop a 9-9-9 plan in under 3 pages. It might be difficult. Gotta keep it simple so he can follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/93 "2011-10-01T07:10:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, let’s make this as simple as possible: Under Cain’s plan, whose taxes would go up? _Someone_’s has to. They’d do just like the last three Republican administrations did. Lower taxes (for some), raise spending, and make up the difference by borrowing. The debt ceiling will vanish as a conservative issue if a Republican is in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/94 "2011-10-01T11:17:40Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Given that you admit “I have no idea how he wants to accomplish it, …”, what, precisely, are you arguing for? He was arguing against the complexity of adding such a tax for businesses. I mentioned that it’s not as cut and dry as a single tax under the current system anyways. > [@](#): > > Are you dyslexic or something? Two of the nines are the flat tax and the sales tax. The third one is to reduce corporate taxes from 35% to 9%, which is just flat dangerous, not to mention stupid. Please, elaborate. > [@](#): > > OK, let’s make this as simple as possible: Under Cain’s plan, whose taxes would go up? Someone’s has to. Everyone’s sales tax would go up, some more than others, or that’s what his empowerment zone comments would imply. > [@](#): > > Oh please, Cain is a joke. Wonder if he can develop a 9-9-9 plan in under 3 pages. It might be difficult. Gotta keep it simple so he can follow it. Yes, because Herman Cain is obviously dumb. Outstanding fucking logic. Have you read anything about his background? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/95 "2011-10-01T13:37:35Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Yes, because Herman Cain is obviously dumb. Outstanding fucking logic. Have you read anything about his background? And you realize that running a business is nothing like running a government? And that the tax code probably needs to be a wee bit more complex than a fertilizer label? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/96 "2011-10-01T13:57:51Z")
With a 9% national sales tax combined with Washington’s 7% state sales tax, Washington would have to put up a fence to keep their consumers from crossing the border to Oregon. There would probably be riots in Virginia. Or is Cain planning to tell the states they can’t raise revenue via sales tax? That whole states’ rights thing is a bitch, ain’t it? Has anybody ever seen a sales tax go _down_? Of course not. What he’s proposing is to put a huge cash cow in place, which can be raised at the whim of congress, and which will require yet another agency to monitor and regulate, both at the national and state levels. Reducing corporate tax from 35% to 9% would accomplish what, exactly, other than to grossly increase the personal bank accounts of CEOs and other executives like Herman Cain and drastically cut revenue for needed government services? I will personally bitch slap the first person who says it will create jobs anywhere but in the third world. Cain’s simplistic solutions are just that: poorly thought-out plans that fit on a bumper sticker. Hey! I just realized that 999 is completely satanic when you flip your computer over! That’s not going to sit well with the religious righties. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/97 "2011-10-01T15:44:07Z")
9-9-29 might be feasible, and it rolls about as easily off the tongue. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Has anybody ever seen a sales tax go _down_? Of course not. Well, the Canadian Goods and Services Tax (GST) was introduced in 1991 at 7% and is currently 5%. As an incidental note, it’s indirectly responsible for our lack of abortion laws, I mention for the heck of it. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/98 "2011-10-01T15:57:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > And you realize that running a business is nothing like running a government? Nice strawman. The topic of debate was his intelligence, which gonzomax insinuated was lacking with his three page comment, and not qualifications. Try again. > [@](#): > > And that the tax code probably needs to be a wee bit more complex than a fertilizer label? They are changes to details in the current tax code and not an entirely new tax code. His new tax code platform is the Fair Tax. That’s a bit more complex than a fertilizer label. > [@](#): > > What he’s proposing is to put a huge cash cow in place, which can be raised at the whim of congress, and which will require yet another agency to monitor and regulate, both at the national and state levels. Kind of like they do with Federal gas taxes, huh? Again, the 9-9-9 plan is short term and everything in it would be null and void with the Fair Tax. The Fair Tax is obviously going to take longer so, in the interim, 9-9-9 is his solution. > [@](#): > > Reducing corporate tax from 35% to 9% would accomplish what, exactly, other than to grossly increase the personal bank accounts of CEOs and other executives like Herman Cain and drastically cut revenue for needed government services? I love this train of thought. Any sort of efficiency that keeps money in the company or any tax cuts that keep money in the payroll they can hold on to AUTOMATICALLY goes to the CEO’s pocket, right? Ok. Well then, what’s the point of debating this with you? Despite the real implications or results, you’ve already decided that the money left over from the tax cut will already be used for nefarious reasons. So, I can tell you how great it is and point to statistics, the whole 9, but you’ve decided it’s already bad. So, let’s leave it at that, I guess. > [@](#): > > I will personally bitch slap the first person who says it will create jobs anywhere but in the third world. Cain’s simplistic solutions are just that: poorly thought-out plans that fit on a bumper sticker. It will create jobs in America. Would you like me to PM you my address to try your hand at slapping me hot shot? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/99 "2011-10-01T16:30:30Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Would you like me to PM you my address to try your hand at slapping me hot shot? I think someone loves Herman Cain a little too much. It’s time for some decaf. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947/100 "2011-10-01T17:24:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Everyone’s sales tax would go up, some more than others, or that’s what his empowerment zone comments would imply. No, I mean whose _total_ taxes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain-action-hero/595947.md?page=6)