# Herman Cain **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 15, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093 "2011-07-15T02:39:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/21 "2011-07-18T10:34:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m shocked, _shocked_ at this off-topic, irrelevant effort to shoehorn a partisan objection to the health care bill into this thread. > > EDIT: OK, I’m not. You guys argued that three page bills are silly. I just pointed out the evils of the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/22 "2011-07-18T12:58:29Z")
A 1,600 page bill subdivided in three-page bills would end up being 533 three-page bills – which I am sure is what would happen if a three page limit was enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/23 "2011-07-18T13:13:38Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > You guys argued that three page bills are silly. I just pointed out the evils of the alternative. No, you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/24 "2011-07-18T13:52:30Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Hey, I’ll give the devil it’s due, Medicare is actually better run that most private insurance. There are abuses, and you could tighten up a few things, but why not just say, “If you don’t have insurance from your employer, you can apply for medicare.” Because insurance companies would reject anyone with any preexisting conditions, and they end up draining Medicare. Privatize the profits, socialize the risk; it is what conservatives have been pushing for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/25 "2011-07-18T14:08:06Z")
> [@whitetho](#): > > A 1,600 page bill subdivided in three-page bills would end up being 533 three-page bills – which I am sure is what would happen if a three page limit was enforced. Actually, it would have to be “In accordance with instructions and conditions found in document XYZ12345” or some such nonsense, because you cannot lay out detailed laws, treaties and regulations in three pages. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/26 "2011-07-18T14:13:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Actually, it would have to be “In accordance with instructions and conditions found in document XYZ12345” or some such nonsense, because you cannot lay out detailed laws, treaties and regulations in three pages. Right. Judging a bill by its length is a poor solution that’s intended to appeal to the terminally stupid. An incomplete, unclear three-page bill is not inherently better than a long, hard-to-understand bill. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/27 "2011-07-18T15:47:36Z")
I think you guys are reading what he said a bit too literally. Take, for example, Cain’s support for the Fair Tax. Compared to the current tax code and IRS regulations, The Fair Tax Act is roughly 1/5th the physical size. Is it 3 pages long? No, but Cain’s praised it’s simplicity compared to the current system. Did any of you actually take the time to view the video where he made the comment? If not, do so. If you still consider his comment as humorless after viewing it in the context it actually occurred in, well, then I’ll entertain your nitpicks. It’s easy to read what he said literally and spin it to fit your argument. Anyone with half a brain that saw the speech knows it was an obvious joke, however. The context is clear as day. In before the liberal s\*\*t storm. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/28 "2011-07-18T15:50:36Z")
> [@](#): > > You’re absolutely right, it could have been. > > So why didn’t he do that? You know damned well why he didn’t do that. Because despite claiming to prefer simple bills, the Republicans would have filibustered something so “socialist” (translation: “efficient”). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/29 "2011-07-18T16:01:24Z")
> [@AbloyProtec](#): > > Take, for example, Cain’s support for the Fair Tax. Compared to the current tax code and IRS regulations, The Fair Tax Act is roughly 1/5th the physical size. Is it 3 pages long? No, but Cain’s praised it’s simplicity compared to the current system. Because if the bill is shorter it _must_ be better. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/30 "2011-07-18T16:12:06Z")
Here’s an even shorter one: “All income, from any source, above the national median for the prior year, is taxed at 35%”. Wow, that’s short… I must be a genius. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/31 "2011-07-18T16:12:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because if the bill is shorter it _must_ be better. The parallels drawn were to clarity rather than quality in reference to pending or existing legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/32 "2011-07-18T16:17:40Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WN5AZsfpH40/hqdefault.jpg "Herman Cain's Pledge: No Bills Longer Than 3 Pages") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN5AZsfpH40) > [@Cain](#): > > Don’t try to pass a 2,700-page bill- and even they didn’t read it? You and I didn’t have time to read [the PPACA]- we’re too busy trying to live, send our kids to school. That’s why I am only going to allow small bills — three pages. [smiles, crowd applauds] You would have time to read that over the dinner table. I can see how such a vague statement would be misinterpreted, what with the fact that it included a specific number, his reasoning [snort] and a counterexample. But isn’t kind of ironic that Cain was arguing in favor of clear legislation and somehow accidentally made it sound like his obvious metaphor was a specific proposal? I think he actually had to disavow the three-page limit a few days later. ---
**Author:** ![AbloyProtec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@AbloyProtec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbloyProtec)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/33 "2011-07-18T16:40:53Z")
Haha, too good. Spin more. So long SD. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/34 "2011-07-18T16:47:16Z")
I looked around for longer portions of that particular speech, but I didn’t see any. It does seem clear he meant that comment to be taken literally. That he later retracted the comment and said it was a metaphor that nobody understood is very standard spin. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/35 "2011-07-18T19:21:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It does seem clear he meant that comment to be taken literally. I hardly think that’s clear. It is one reasonable interpretation, but it kinda depends on your already believing Herman Cain to be a profound ignoramus. OTOH, if we take it as given that a 3-page limit to the length of bills before Congress would be preposterous, and we look at Cain’s breaking into a huge grin as he says “three pages,” another reasonable interpretation would be that he was using hyperbole. And even if we do think that Herman Cain is a profound ignoramus, that doesn’t exactly make the latter option less likely than the former. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/36 "2011-07-18T19:25:07Z")
Hm… OK, so let’s be generous and say “3 pages” was hyperbole. How do we wave away this one: > [@](#): > > In an exchange on “Fox News Sunday,” the Republican presidential contender said that he sided with some in a town near Nashville who were trying to prevent Muslims from worshiping in their community. > > “Our Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state,” he said. “Islam combines church and state. They’re using the church part of our First Amendment to infuse their morals in that community, and the people of that community do not like it. They disagree with it.” > > Asked by host Chris Wallace if any community could ban a mosque if it wanted to, Cain said: “They have a right to do that.” ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/37 "2011-07-18T19:35:29Z")
Well that’s just fucking vile, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/38 "2011-07-18T19:45:27Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > I hardly think that’s clear. It is one reasonable interpretation, but it kinda depends on your already believing Herman Cain to be a profound ignoramus. Or that he believed he was speaking to an audience of profound ignoramuses. I wasn’t Cain a fan before this particular comment because public, but I didn’t believe him to be a profound ignoramus until I heard the above. Like I said, I’m open to changing my opinion of that comment if somebody can provide more context. (In which case I’d hang the “profound ignoramus” comment on the comment **Jas09** quoted.) > [@](#): > > if we take it as given that a 3-page limit to the length of bills before Congress would be preposterous If only we could assume that politicians would never deliberately say something preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/39 "2011-07-18T20:07:40Z")
Oh, see, I was solidly in the “profound ignoramus” camp after his Constitution/DoI quote: > [@](#): > > “We don’t need to rewrite the Constitution of the United States,” Cain said. “We need to reread the Constitution and enforce the Constitution.” > > "And I know that there’s some people that are not going to do that. So, for the benefit for those that are not going to read it because they don’t want us to go by the Constitution, there’s a little section in there that talks about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. > > "You know, those ideals that we live by, we believe in, your parents believe in, they instilled in you. When you get to the part about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, don’t stop right there, keep reading. > > “’Cause that’s when it says that when any form of government becomes destructive of those ideals, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it. We’ve got some altering and some abolishing to do.” ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093/40 "2011-07-22T10:44:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Yet another graduate of Republican Clown College. He wouldn’t allow any bills longer than 3 pages. He doesn’t know the difference between the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. The guy is unbelievably ignorant. A couple weeks ago he was holding forth on Middle Eastern policy, and the host asked him about the Right of Return. Cain had no idea what he was talking about. Another damn “Gotcha!” question. And from a Fox News host, no less. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herman-cain/589093.md?page=3)