# Heroes 10/1/07 - "Lizards" (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203 "2007-10-01T21:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/101 "2007-10-03T15:11:18Z")
[QUOTE=GuanoLad] Well, did his expoding Manhattan come true or not? That’s a temporal argument that goes in circles. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say I agree with him, just what I thought his comments meant. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/102 "2007-10-03T15:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] You mean the “Cane” that features a sister who married her adoptive brother, who is in quite a bit of danger? [/QUOTE] Yes, yes that is the one. [QUOTE=GuanoLad] Well, did his expoding Manhattan come true or not? That’s a temporal argument that goes in circles. [/QUOTE] Funnily enough, I mis-read this at first as “a temporal argument that goes in cliches.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/103 "2007-10-03T15:40:11Z")
I guess it’s early enough in the season to post wildass predictions. As for the unibomber (no knowledge just a guess): I think it is going to turn out to be Takezo. Either we fnd out that his powers make him immortal or at least very longlived (as it will for Claire) or Hiro brought him ahead to at least thirty years ago. That is why he walked away from the fall with Sulu Someone mentioned being bored with a storyline. I seem to recall that there will be two story arcs this year. One will end at the midseason break right before they start _Heroes:Origins_. A second arc will start after the break and go to the end of the season. If you are bored with the story at least you only have to deal with it for half a season. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/104 "2007-10-03T20:33:55Z")
I _use_ my little toe for balance, if I’m on the boat. Or to hold onto things with. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/105 "2007-10-03T21:31:59Z")
I think it would be awesome for the uni-bomber to be Takezo. He might figure he is the original super (as far as he knows) and so he has the right to get rid of these “annoying children”. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/106 "2007-10-03T22:10:57Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] This is probably going to end the same way Zach (and then an “unnamed major character”) would turn out to be gay. The creators of Heroes say a lot of things, but almost none of them turn out to be true. I think they’re going to start contradicting the online comic any day now. [/QUOTE] Possibly, but it seems that at the moment it’s definately Nathan, and as such Adrian Pasdar (I think that’s his name) played it as such in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/107 "2007-10-03T22:29:03Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] [La Llorona](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Llorona) [/QUOTE] Yeah, I looked it up. But did some woman on the show drown her children? I don’t get who on the show is being referenced. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/108 "2007-10-03T23:22:30Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] AHHH!!! That phrase bugs me more than magic fireball shooting evolution on a TV show. Evolution is “only a theory” in the same way that scientists talking about “the theory of gravity” means that “gravity is only a theory”. [/QUOTE] Me too. It was a _Whoosh_ (though I’m surprised that Alabama doesn’t require a “Theory Only” sticker on the DVD set or that Heroes hasn’t made its way into more anti-ev sermons and screeds). Speaking of evolution, though- Mohinder used a term in discussing human migration at one point that’s evidently an anthropological term- it’s very German sounding, something like _ruenzugeh_- and I remember wanting to research it. Does anybody know what the word was? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/109 "2007-10-04T00:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth] Yeah, I looked it up. But did some woman on the show drown her children? I don’t get who on the show is being referenced. [/QUOTE] Common image of La Llorona is a woman with black eyes or hollow eyes, weeping blood. And, after seeing her, you die. There was a particularly creepy article floating around on the 'net a few years back, recounting urban myths as told by homeless kids in Miami – IIRC, you chant “Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary” in front of a mirror, La Llorona appears with her missing eyes and bloody tears, and then bad things happen. Hmm… looks like [that story](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1997-06-05/news/myths-over-miami/) is still online, actually. Anyway, they make Maya up to look just like La Llorona is described, and people who see her die. Hence, my associating the two together. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/110 "2007-10-04T02:07:31Z")
There is a temporal contradiction between the picture of dead Sulu and the pictures of the explosion. The picture of Sulu dead on pavement with those same cracks and the blood pooling in that same pattern requires him to have been pushed from a rooftop where he would have no reason to be if the bomb had exploded. You can argue that the attempt on his life would have taken place even if the bomb had gone off (Was he in the vicinity?). But the scene would have looked different. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/111 "2007-10-04T05:20:42Z")
[QUOTE=Sir Prize] There is a temporal contradiction between the picture of dead Sulu and the pictures of the explosion. The picture of Sulu dead on pavement with those same cracks and the blood pooling in that same pattern requires him to have been pushed from a rooftop where he would have no reason to be if the bomb had exploded. You can argue that the attempt on his life would have taken place even if the bomb had gone off (Was he in the vicinity?). But the scene would have looked different. [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. The episode “Five Years Later” made it clear that Isaac’s lost wasn’t near ground zero of the bomb. And AFAIK, Hiro’s dad was still at the sword shop during the “final fight,” of season 1, and we have no idea where that was, so it’s not unreasonable to assume it (and therefore he) could have survived the blast, and then had been on Isaac’s roof at a later point to die. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/112 "2007-10-04T14:28:37Z")
I think the problem is that, while Isack’s power was to paint _the_ future, Hiro’s power was causing there to be multiples of _the_ future. Until Hiro opened the future box to find out if the cat was alive or dead, _both_ futures were _the_ future, and there was no way for an outside observer like Isack to determine which was which. Alternatively, we can suppose that _another_ NY explosion will occur in _this_ timeline, as well as Papa Sulu and the other 7 (8?) would have been killed in the same way in the _other_ timeline. Myself, I think the Schrödinger fanwank is more plausible, but time travel stories are generally headache-inducing. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/113 "2007-10-04T21:02:28Z")
[QUOTE=JXJohns] I took that to mean that all of the paintings had come true except the 8, until now… [/QUOTE] and the eight represent the original “Company” who are to die? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/114 "2007-10-04T21:22:21Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] And AFAIK, Hiro’s dad was still at the sword shop during the “final fight,” [/QUOTE] Speaking of, that must have been one helluva lesson that Dad gave Hiro. One afternoon and he was suddenly fighting like a Samurai. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/115 "2007-10-04T22:09:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Speaking of, that must have been one helluva lesson that Dad gave Hiro. One afternoon and he was suddenly fighting like a Samurai. [/QUOTE] Maybe that was Daddy-san’s power. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/116 "2007-10-04T23:36:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Speaking of, that must have been one helluva lesson that Dad gave Hiro. One afternoon and he was suddenly fighting like a Samurai. [/QUOTE] Never underestimate the power of a good 80s-style training montage. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/117 "2007-10-05T02:16:33Z")
Hiro didn’t fight Sylar so much as run at him with the pointy end pointing that-a-way. Hey, whatever works. The rooftop of unhappiness survived the thwarted big boom, as seen by H&A arriving there for _Five Years After_ ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2007, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/118 "2007-10-05T08:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] Hiro didn’t fight Sylar so much as run at him with the pointy end pointing that-a-way. Hey, whatever works. The rooftop of unhappiness survived the thwarted big boom, as seen by H&A arriving there for _Five Years After_ [/QUOTE] Hee. The “rooftop of unhappiness”. Now I will never be able to think of it as anything else but this. Presumably it’s a close cousin of the Misery park bench in _Eastenders_, where all the central characters are drawn to sit whenever they are in the grip of despair. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2007, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203/119 "2007-10-05T08:44:45Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Never underestimate the power of a good 80s-style training montage. [/QUOTE] Heh. The only thing missing was “You’re the best…around…nothing’s gonna ever keep you down…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-1-07-lizards-spoilers/421203.md?page=5)