# Heroes 10/13/08 "Angels and Monsters" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821 "2008-10-14T01:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/21 "2008-10-14T06:50:59Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > For those who think it’s unrealistic for Sylar to suddenly be a good guy that wants to prove he can be reformed…just note the look on his face after HRG gets out of the car to talk to Claire after Sylar tells him that she doesn’t believe him, and that he’ll never understand people like them…you don’t think Sylar has a bigger end-game in mind? Awesome. Someone has inappropriate niece feelings- Sylar thinks he found a soul mate. :eek: After that “I felt your pain/Don’t even look at her, psychofreak” exchange at the House of Vortex, I’m surprised Noah didn’t make him ride in the trunk. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/22 "2008-10-14T07:19:04Z")
Nathan: I’ve been there, I wanted to tell the world, I even called a press conference Tracy: What happened? What the fuck? How could you not know what happened? That was the reason you suggested he get tapped for the senate seat. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/23 "2008-10-14T10:47:00Z")
Well, the stupid virus sure seems to be catching, but I’ve come to accept that by now – what bugs me more about this season is that they’ve basically just flipped the ‘opposite allegiance’ switch on every character; now they’re even trying to villainize Hiro. Though I don’t believe for a second he killed Ando, any more than I believe that Sylar’s gonna turn all lovey-dovey (even though he’s been shown to be redeemable). I get that they’re wanting to show how everyone’s got a dark/light/morally ambiguous in a different way side, but they’re going way too all-out on that front, just turning all of them into their stereotypical opposite ostensibly. Well, except for Parkman, it seems. Also, Peter’s out of commission again, owing to his uber-powers – either he’s got to be out, or stupid, else he’d just be too much of a deal breaker. With him using his powers even remotely efficiently, there wouldn’t really be any conceivable threat he couldn’t handle, so they keep having to castrate him. That’s just bad character design. Other than that, though, I thought this episode really picked up in the end, even though it seems they’re a bit fast with their reveals – one wonders what’s still in store. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/24 "2008-10-14T10:55:20Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Previously, when Hiro slowed time down, he still had to move things around, make them happen, etc. It only appeared instantaneous to people in “normal” time. So he would still have to actually dig up the coffin. He can’t just teleport people or things at will. Hiro can bend space and time, teleporting has always been part of his powers. He didn’t walk to new york on the first episode, he teleported there. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/25 "2008-10-14T12:45:49Z")
Time travel has always been part of his power set as well. So no, he doesn’t just slow things down. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/26 "2008-10-14T13:09:51Z")
Heroes has some sloppy, recycled crap going on, but I can’t fault the Hiro/coffin bit. Hiro can only teleport things he is touching. He can’t touch the coffin without digging it up, ergo, he can’t simply retrieve it. When we see Kenzei ‘arrive’ in the coffin, if I recall correctly, there’s no indication that he was simply teleported there - Hiro could have stopped time, dug the hole, and buried him, just as easily. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/27 "2008-10-14T13:29:03Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Nathan: I’ve been there, I wanted to tell the world, I even called a press conference > Tracy: What happened? > > What the fuck? How could you not know what happened? That was the reason you suggested he get tapped for the senate seat. I had the exact same reaction. There are only three possible explanations 1. Tracy’s just hopelessly stupid 2. The writers are hopelessly stupid and completely forgot what happened in a major plot point a mere four episodes ago. 3. The writers believe that the audience is hopelessly stupid or needs a refresher on what happened a mere four episodes ago, in which case the writers are STILL stupid because they couldn’t come up with a way to do it that didn’t contradict the fact that Tracy should damn well know what happened to Nathan. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/28 "2008-10-14T13:29:49Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Heroes has some sloppy, recycled crap going on, but I can’t fault the Hiro/coffin bit. > > Hiro can only teleport things he is touching. He can’t touch the coffin without digging it up, ergo, he can’t simply retrieve it. > > When we see Kenzei ‘arrive’ in the coffin, if I recall correctly, there’s no indication that he was simply teleported there - Hiro could have stopped time, dug the hole, and buried him, just as easily. Ever lifted a coffin? With a body in it? There’s a reason there are typically 6 or 8 pallbearers. And Hiro has never been represented as a strong dude. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/29 "2008-10-14T13:36:23Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > I’m sure Hiro faked the Ando-skewering somehow, but Daphne was there and she wouldn’t have been fooled by it–she can still move around and interact with Hiro even when he has “stopped” time. I wonder if that will be addressed? Based on what we’ve seen of Daphne’s powers so far, I think that her super-speed is either “on” or “off”. It was more obvious this episode when she was interacting with ParkmanSr/Linderman, but when she foiled Hiro’s timestop in the season opener she was _already_ moving at super-speed (and, apparently, _still_ caught by it). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/30 "2008-10-14T13:39:04Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Ever lifted a coffin? With a body in it? There’s a reason there are typically 6 or 8 pallbearers. And Hiro has never been represented as a strong dude. Hiro was casually, indeed impishly, blinking Adama in and out of the coffin. The only reason for the digging was, I figure, the dramatic “apparently-dead guy’s eyes abruptly snap open” bit, which was also used for Mo’s web-buddy, so I guess the writer’s really really like that bit. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/31 "2008-10-14T13:42:03Z")
The way I looked at it, he had to dig down to the coffin, then step down onto it and teleport it up and out of the hole. No way he brought it up on his own, but we do know he’s able to teleport other people and objects. I assumed putting Adam in and out of the coffin was a combination of stopping time and teleporting. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/32 "2008-10-14T13:51:56Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > I assumed putting Adam in and out of the coffin was a combination of stopping time and teleporting. Yeah, that’s pretty much what I thought. He hasn’t been explicitly shown to be able to teleport other objects without touching them, so I think it’s safest to assume he can’t. Another thing, this time, we actually got a power worthy of the ‘you don’t wanna know’-line: Puppet Master guy. I’m hoping he’ll stick around for a bit, that’s a fabulously creepy power. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/33 "2008-10-14T13:52:42Z")
Nitpicking _Heroes_ isn’t nearly as much fun as nitpicking _24_, especially considering the lameness of most (but not all - Tracy forgetting her raison d’etre certainly deserves lambasting) of the nitpicks. But while we are nitpicking Hiro and Adam, what would lead anyone to believe that his power is so fine that he could teleport Adam into an empty, already buried coffin, or back out again? I don’t think Hiro wants to teleport himself into a solid object - even he is not that stupid! ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/34 "2008-10-14T14:28:26Z")
Gee, I didn’t think my comment about the coffin would get so much discussion. The reason I felt they were telling us that Hiro teleported Adam in their originally is that I thought it was his father’s grave - didn’t they show us the headstone at that time? And since Dad had already had his funeral and been interred and the gravesite didn’t look disturbed it made it seem like he was teleported in there. Of course if this was Dad’s grave or anyone else’s, why wasn’t there a body in there with Adam? But anyway, it’s just a little thing that bugged me and I don’t care about it that much to argue about it and have someone accuse me of not liking the show because they don’t use my ideas. As for the Tracy/Nathan exchange, that was bad writing. She should have asked why he decided not to tell after he was shot. The being part shot is obvious but why he changed his mind wasn’t. Does anyone else wonder if Peter and Sylar are fraternal twins? They seem to be the same age and it seems more plausible that Mama P. could have hid one infant of a multiple birth easier than an entire separate pregnancy. Also, Pete and Sylar’s powers are similar. Have we even seen anything that gave their supposed ages? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/35 "2008-10-14T14:29:15Z")
I think that **CandidGamera** has it right – Hiro basically needs to touch what he is teleporting. Every time he’s taken Ando along, he’s grabbed ahold of Ando. When Future Peter teleported Parkman to Africa, same deal. Once Adam was out of the coffin, Hiro could 'port him back in – but couldn’t 'port him out willy-nilly. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/36 "2008-10-14T14:39:30Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Apples? Having _Life_ on after Heroes has let Syler learn a couple of things. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/37 "2008-10-14T14:47:19Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Does anyone else wonder if Peter and Sylar are fraternal twins? They seem to be the same age and it seems more plausible that Mama P. could have hid one infant of a multiple birth easier than an entire separate pregnancy. Also, Pete and Sylar’s powers are similar. Have we even seen anything that gave their supposed ages? I’m not sold that Mama Petrelli really is Sylar’s mom - I think that she said that to try and manipulate Sylar. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/38 "2008-10-14T14:57:21Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’m not sold that Mama Petrelli really is Sylar’s mom - I think that she said that to try and manipulate Sylar. I wasn’t convinced either until the teasers announced that the guy who was father to three Heroes (and showed Nathan, Peter and Sylar’s pics) was back. Granted teasers try to mislead by cutting up the scenes to look like one thing is happening when it’s really something else but in this case they just came right out and said that. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/39 "2008-10-14T15:24:59Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’m not sold that Mama Petrelli really is Sylar’s mom - I think that she said that to try and manipulate Sylar. FWIW, If she’s lying, they’re still believing it 4 years in the future. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/40 "2008-10-14T15:28:25Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > FWIW, If she’s lying, they’re still believing it 4 years in the future. All it takes is for a little time-mucking by Hiro or Peter for that change. The future is very fluid, and the past is written in erasable ink. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821.md?page=3)