# Heroes 10/13/08 "Angels and Monsters" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821 "2008-10-14T01:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/61 "2008-10-14T21:35:00Z")
The one thing that bugged me from last night was Claire not agreeing with HRG that vortex-guy should kill Syler. Wasn’t she just screaming at her dad about Syler, freaked out that he was now working with the company? The scene would have went much different if she had agreed with HRG, and said “y’know vortex-guy, my dad is right… Sylar really is an evil person, and has murdered so many people, including trying to kill me. It really would be a good thing to take him out and save future folks. That wouldn’t make you a monster, but a hero.” Vortex-guy already kinda trusted her. And with her agreeing with HRG, he wouldn’t have been so freaked out, and could have taken out Syler. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/62 "2008-10-14T21:52:38Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Since he can’t kill Isaac _again_ to get 'em, he’s probably still got 'em. … unless he finds and eats the brain of Parkman’s Magical Negro Friend. Nah, he just needs to listen to the magic walkman that the guy had, like Parkman did for his spirit quest. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/63 "2008-10-14T21:53:07Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > As for the Tracy/Nathan exchange, that was bad writing. She should have asked why he decided not to tell after he was shot. The being part shot is obvious but why he changed his mind wasn’t. But how would she know _which_ press conference he was talking about? He ran for Senate in S1 – he’s had to have made dozens of them. It doesn’t necessarily follow that it was his most recent press conference. All she knows is that he organized a press conference, and then never announced it. She doesn’t know when or why. > [@](#): > > Does anyone else wonder if Peter and Sylar are fraternal twins? They seem to be the same age and it seems more plausible that Mama P. could have hid one infant of a multiple birth easier than an entire separate pregnancy. Also, Pete and Sylar’s powers are similar. Have we even seen anything that gave their supposed ages? They’d almost have to be. Both Peter and Sylar look at least 8-10 years younger than Nathan. Nathan ought to remember his mom being pregnant twice during his childhood, if indeed she was. But it doesn’t seem that he recalls that at all. He had no idea there was a third sibling. I wonder how Maury got out of his little mental prison. I’m anxious to see what Dad Petrelli’s power is. Hiro had damn well better be faking it. That was the most unbelievable “turn” I’ve ever seen: Hiro: Nemesis! Daphne: Hey, join us! Hiro: Okay!! I’m surprised Daphne bought it. Puppet Master was damn cool, though. That’s even scarier than Eden’s persuasion power. The writing has been feeling sloppy this year, though. “You don’t want to know” about this guy’s scary power was a cliche the first time they used it. But twice? Almost on top of each other? I hope they start tightening things up again real soon. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/64 "2008-10-14T21:55:53Z")
> [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](#): > > #4 sounds like the best explanation. As far as Sylar suddenly not being crazy, I think trying to take claire’s power also messed with his mind, as as soon as he actually touched her brain, was when this big change happened. Also ties into the line: “I could feel the pain I caused you”… he got compassion from claire’s brain, or something. Or being able to see the history of any “object” includes people. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/65 "2008-10-14T21:55:57Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > We know he still had Isaac’s prognostipainting powers the last time someone visited the future. Since he can’t kill Isaac _again_ to get 'em, he’s probably still got 'em. … unless he finds and eats the brain of Parkman’s Magical Negro Friend. > > So Sylar probably _does_ have those other powers – he’s just not using them.. Plus, Future Sylar also still had Ted’s “go boom, nuke-style” powers. Also, doesn’t Sylar also have Charlie’s super-memory powers? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/66 "2008-10-14T22:09:28Z")
Dale/Sylar’s super hearing was a passive power, though. We saw Sylar having a great deal of trouble adjusting to it when he first took it, and Dale said she had trouble when it first manifested in her, too. Sylar’s POV shot showed Noah, Claire, and vortex guy as being inaudible. I’ve sort of been assuming (without even really realizing it) that Sylar didn’t get all of his powers back at once, although some may trickle back later. Some sort of long-term after-effect of being sick? Now that I think about it, I’m not sure what made me think that, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/67 "2008-10-14T22:32:11Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Mama Petrelli is not the “good” side. I’ve given up any notion of sorting these guys into sides. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/68 "2008-10-14T23:46:44Z")
Yeah, I don’t believe for a second Hiro killed Ando, but I can’t figure out how he pulled it off. I guess Hiro could have stopped time, blinked away, got a fake sword, blinked back to before he and Ando were in the bar and let him in on the plan. I was wondering when papa Petrelli would show up. I knew he had to. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/69 "2008-10-14T23:48:49Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > …Also, doesn’t Sylar also have Charlie’s super-memory powers? I _think_ that Hiro changed things so that that didn’t happen. S1 watchers? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/70 "2008-10-15T01:00:34Z")
Nope. Hiro couldn’t change the past, and had to take a bus back from Japan. About Sylar’s super hearing, I could have sworn he mentioned Noah’s deal with Vortex guy to kill him, but that might have been a leak from Claire. Also, has anyone noticed the plethora of powers which can disable or kill immortals now? Puppetguy, Papa Petrelli, Daddy Parkman (not new), Vortex guy (sadly deceased, although there’s no saying _where_ that vortex goes, Maaaaaya (thankfully cocooned)… did I miss anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/71 "2008-10-15T01:10:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve given up any notion of sorting these guys into sides. Primatech=Angela/HRG= ambiguously evil, ends justifies the means, ends=harness abilities for good & tame/kill the nasties. Like trying to alter Shanti’s virus as a bad abilities neutralizing agent. Pinehurst=Maury/Pa Petrelli= really fucking evil, but currently recruiting a bunch of white hats like Hiro and Matt? Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/72 "2008-10-15T01:16:36Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > Just a guess. That’s all well and good, but they’re really overplaying the “my enemy yesterday is my ally tomorrow, and vice-versa” bit. No matter how evil Papa Petrelli is portrayed over the next few episodes, if he (and the series) survives until next season, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he and Mama Petrelli casually reconcile to stop Micah, who has morphed into a bloodthirsty serial killer. I guess I’m all twisted out. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/73 "2008-10-15T02:52:01Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Nope. Hiro couldn’t change the past, and had to take a bus back from Japan. He couldn’t stop Charlies death, but I thought she died of aneurysm in the current timeline NOT Sylar. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/74 "2008-10-15T02:57:41Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Nathan ought to remember his mom being pregnant twice during his childhood, if indeed she was. But it doesn’t seem that he recalls that at all. He had no idea there was a third sibling. He may have been visited by the Haitian. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/75 "2008-10-15T03:15:54Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > He couldn’t stop Charlies death, but I thought she died of aneurysm in the current timeline NOT Sylar. As I recall, she died of brain exposure as she was opening a can of tomatoes.. Count me in on the disbelief of Hiro and Sylar’s turning, though. Completely unbelieveable. Although it was kinda fun to watch daddy Sylar make pancakes.. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/76 "2008-10-15T03:30:19Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > … > Also, has anyone noticed the plethora of powers which can disable or kill **immortals** now? Puppetguy, Papa Petrelli, Daddy Parkman (not new), Vortex guy (sadly deceased, although there’s no saying _where_ that vortex goes, Maaaaaya (thankfully cocooned)… did I miss anyone? [Emphasis added] Did you mean to say “supers” or “heroes”? Because, as far as we know, there are only about 4 (Claire, Sylar, Peter and Adam) that could be called “immortal”. Being able to make fire is convenient when you can’t find a lighter, but it hardly makes you superman. In the grand scheme of things, Claire’s mom is pretty weak. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/77 "2008-10-15T08:06:06Z")
Regarding the Hiro/Ando thing: Here’s the most parsimonous explanation… Remember when Hiro and Ando had their conversation with Adam after exhuming him, and Adam eventually says he thought he could find their bad guy and the formula and that he had a plan? OK, so if Adam’s blood has the same healing properties as Claire’s, the plan could very well be to have Hiro stab Ando just enough to cause some scary bleeding, and then Adam can move in and heal Ando. I don’t think that Adam abandoned Hiro and Ando in this case, he actually is just following the plan, as is Hiro. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/78 "2008-10-15T08:39:19Z")
OK, amending my hypothesis: Hiro did stab Ando with deadly intent. However, the clue they both give is that they tell Daphne and Knox that they “know what they are doing” and want in, and that they are now “badass.” How would they know what Daphne and Knox are up to, unless Adam guesses what’s happening and Hiro and Adam came up with a plan to infiltrate the group? Adam lets himself get caught, Hiro stabs Ando with faith that Adam will heal him, Ando…well, maybe Ando wants to be a hero, maybe he’s not even in on the whole plan, but he does seem to go along with Hiro when he says “we know what you are doing” and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/79 "2008-10-15T09:07:34Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > [Emphasis added] > > Did you mean to say “supers” or “heroes”? Because, as far as we know, there are only about 4 (Claire, Sylar, Peter and Adam) that could be called “immortal”. > > Being able to make fire is convenient when you can’t find a lighter, but it hardly makes you superman. In the grand scheme of things, Claire’s mom is pretty weak. Nope, I meant immortal. And yes, I’m referring to the 4 of them, and the powers that seem to be coming up to deal with them. That’s why I thought the new powers were notable - they can actually kill or neutralise the immortals. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/80 "2008-10-15T12:12:59Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > As I recall, she died of brain exposure as she was opening a can of tomatoes.. Then Hiro went back in time to save her. He saved her in the sense that Sylar missed out on a snack, but she still died. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821.md?page=5)