# Heroes 10/13/08 "Angels and Monsters" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821 "2008-10-14T01:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/101 "2008-10-15T19:33:46Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but I think Charlie _was_ still killed by Sylar. It was a combination of Hiro couldn’t convince her to believe she was in danger, and her knowing that she was dying anyway, so she felt it didn’t matter when so much as long as she was living fully now. Hiro kept telling her not to go to work that day and to run away with him (he bought two plane tickets to Japan (?) I think it was)… she refused to do so. If she’s still at the cafe on the day Sylar shows up, she gets her top popped. I think he left Charlie in the past the day before Sylar killed her, realizing he couldn’t convince her to leave with him. You memory is confused, but not wrong. Sylar did get to Charlie the first time, and popped her top. Hiro then went back in time and tried to change that option, but Charlie still ended up dead. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/102 "2008-10-15T19:35:57Z")
Ok so all the supers from Nathan’s generation and younger were either injected with the super serum or born from supers who got the super serum. Do we know if Mama Petrelli’s generation have natural super powers or where they given the super serum from an older generation? Or do we not know yet? Also since Adam is for sure a natural super surely there must be other natural supers out there. Adam is probably the oldest we will ever know becuse if others in the past were natural supers if they didn’t have Adams power then they would have died out by now ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/103 "2008-10-15T19:45:15Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I think my girlfriend has the first season DVD’s, so I can find out for sure. It would be ridiculous to say that something from a different source is “canon” for a tv show if it contradicts something that’s specifically established _in the tv show_. > > All this talk about siblings – wonder if Hiro’s sister will show up again at some point. Isn’t she running the family company back in Tokyo? (And what does it do, exactly?) Firstly - its not contradicted in the show - its amiguous in the show at best - we know that Charlie still dies - at the same point in time that she died origianally. We know that Hiro ‘wanted’ to stop that, but couldn’t. as for the Web Comics, they are fully sanctioned by NBC, hosted on the Heroes Official website, and (at least initially) contained bits and pieces of stories tied directly to events that were shown on TV. (Wireless’s and Lindermans introductions and power reveals for starters). While I personally avoid them, and hate that they have these tidbits out there, they are still there - I can’t find an official statement beyond that - so at this point I’ll slink away again. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/104 "2008-10-15T20:51:03Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Mama Petrelli and the scientist in California who made the Niki triplets & Nathan, freely admit they were arrogant, playing God, etc, and saw the error of their ways. Angela gives me the distinct impression that whenever she admits to wrong-doing, she’s doing it to manipulate someone, not because she actually believes she was wrong. 😃 > [@D\_Odds](#): > > You memory is confused, but not wrong. Sylar did get to Charlie the first time, and popped her top. Hiro then went back in time and tried to change that option, but Charlie still ended up dead. Well, yes, that’s what I was saying, she didn’t survive either timeline. She was killed by Sylar in both timelines, and not by her brain condition in either one. Hiro left the day before she died because he couldn’t convince her not to be there when Sylar was. If she was still there, and Sylar was still there, I expect that she got her top popped “both” times. > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Why’s everyone thinking Mama Petrelli’s pregnancy would’ve had to be secret? Thankfully, it doesn’t happen as much as it used to, but women going to the hospital pregnant and returning without a child is certainly not unheard of, and also a good reason for no questions being asked… Because so far Nathan hasn’t shown any indication that he knew he had a sibling other than Peter. So either Sylar and Peter were twins (one pregnancy that he remembers), or she somehow hid one out of two pregnancies. Adult Nathan, by my guess, is 8-10 years older than adult Peter and Sylar, which means he would have been old enough to remember his mom being pregnant twice, if she was pregnant twice. Unless they were twins, she managed to keep one of those pregnancies a secret, however she did it. Or else Sylar was a test tube baby carried by a surrogate (possibly the woman he thought was his mother, and possibly even she didn’t know that Sylar was an IVF baby, if the Company decided to drug her or something). All of which is to say, I think it’s likely Peter and Sylar are twins, under the circumstances, unless Angela is lying or exaggerating about being Sylar’s mom (which wouldn’t be out of character for her either). ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/105 "2008-10-15T21:00:27Z")
I wouldn’t put it past Mama Petrelli to leave Nathan in the care of a nanny after she started to show, then spend some time “in France,” and come home without a child. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/106 "2008-10-15T21:03:45Z")
I’ve just seen Hiro zap Adam back into his coffin without touching him, which seems to answer some of the earlier arguing about how he ended up in the coffin. Has anything changed, or is Hiro just getting better with his ability? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/107 "2008-10-15T21:10:01Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’ve just seen Hiro zap Adam back into his coffin without touching him, which seems to answer some of the earlier arguing about how he ended up in the coffin. Has anything changed, or is Hiro just getting better with his ability? 😕 I think we’re seeing what an outsider would see. He freezes time, physically moves Adam back into the coffin, goes back to where he was standing, and unfreezes time. They just don’t want to show us the boring details. Earlier, Hiro said “if I had known I had the key, I wouldn’t have buried him so deep.” So, I think we’re spared watching Hiro do things while time is stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/108 "2008-10-15T21:10:57Z")
I imagine he froze time to get Adam back in the coffin. He can’t teleport someone else unless he teleports too, and it would be kind of crowded for two people in a coffin (and Adam could refuse to let go, too, so Hiro would either have to stay there with him or bring him back out when he teleports himself out). ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/109 "2008-10-15T21:16:32Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think we’re seeing what an outsider would see. He freezes time, physically moves Adam back into the coffin, goes back to where he was standing, and unfreezes time. They just don’t want to show us the boring details. > > Earlier, Hiro said “if I had known I had the key, I wouldn’t have buried him so deep.” So, I think we’re spared watching Hiro do things while time is stopped. Hiro said that earlier because he and Ando had just dug up Adam. No time-stoppage involved in that, at all. And we saw Future Peter teleport Parkman off to Africa while himself remaining in NY. No implication that Future Peter had to stop time, carry Parkman to Africa, and then go back to NY. And it’s the same power. We know Hiro can teleport others he is touching. It seems likely he can teleport others he is touching, without teleporting himself. He just can’t teleport them _to_ where he is, _from_ elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/110 "2008-10-15T21:21:40Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > And we saw Future Peter teleport Parkman off to Africa while himself remaining in NY. No implication that Future Peter had to stop time, carry Parkman to Africa, and then go back to NY. And it’s the same power. Or Peter teleported with Parkman to Africa, knocked him out, and teleported back to NY. It would take about 10 seconds, especially given that Peter can (and did) control Parkman with TK. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/111 "2008-10-15T21:39:45Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > We know Hiro can teleport others he is touching. It seems likely he can teleport others he is touching, without teleporting himself. He just can’t teleport them _to_ where he is, _from_ elsewhere. But, Hiro blinked and Adam was out of the coffin, with no touching, so we must not have seen Hiro physically taking him back out of the box. Then he blinked again and put Adam back in the box, again with no touching. That we could see. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/112 "2008-10-15T22:03:35Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think we’re seeing what an outsider would see. He freezes time, physically moves Adam back into the coffin, goes back to where he was standing, and unfreezes time. They just don’t want to show us the boring details. > > Earlier, Hiro said “if I had known I had the key, I wouldn’t have buried him so deep.” So, I think we’re spared watching Hiro do things while time is stopped. I like the fact that he goes back to where he was standing. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/113 "2008-10-16T00:44:21Z")
I guess I’ll spoilerize these tidbits from Behind the Eclipse, in case for some reason people don’t want to know… Regarding Sylar’s abilities at the start of season 3: Sylar lost everything except his ability to understand things and, for some reason as yet unexplained, telekinesis. Regarding Present Peter and Future Peter and absorbing abilities: Apparently Peter only absorbs “inherent” powers, meaning that he would not acquire Future Peter’s extra abilities nor Sylar’s “learned” abilities. Though that still doesn’t explain why Peter felt the need to seek out Sylar to gain his ability; he’s already been in close proximity to Sylar. Oh, well. Regarding Peter’s apparent stupidity when it comes to using his powers at appropriate times: Peter is being written as a highly impulsive and emotional character that tends to act first and think later. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/114 "2008-10-16T03:00:28Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > I guess I’ll spoilerize these tidbits from Behind the Eclipse, in case for some reason people don’t want to know… > > Regarding Sylar’s abilities at the start of season 3: > > Sylar lost everything except his ability to understand things and, for some reason as yet unexplained, telekinesis. Is this an official source? I find that hard to believe. In the alternate future, Sylar clearly still had Nuclear Ted’s power and Mistah Issac the future painter’s power. TK is definitely Sylar’s favorite power but he should still have his others. > [@](#): > > Regarding Present Peter and Future Peter and absorbing abilities: > > Apparently Peter only absorbs “inherent” powers, meaning that he would not acquire Future Peter’s extra abilities nor Sylar’s “learned” abilities. Though that still doesn’t explain why Peter felt the need to seek out Sylar to gain his ability; he’s already been in close proximity to Sylar. Oh, well. But then how did Peter acquire Sylar’s telekinesis? TK wasn’t an inherent power in Sylar, he took it from a guy visiting his watch shop. I’m not sure if Peter got anything else from Sylar’s bag of tricks but he did clearly get that one. > [@](#): > > Regarding Peter’s apparent stupidity when it comes to using his powers at appropriate times: > > Peter is being written as a highly impulsive and emotional character that tends to act first and think later. Yeah, I guess one could say that. Still, it seems to happen more often than it should. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/115 "2008-10-16T03:46:04Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > Is this an official source? I find that hard to believe. In the alternate future, Sylar clearly still had Nuclear Ted’s power and Mistah Issac the future painter’s power. TK is definitely Sylar’s favorite power but he should still have his others. All of the “spoilers” have been from the Behind the Eclipse feature: “Welcome to BEHIND THE ECLIPSE, where writers/producers Joe Pokaski and Aron Coliete join us every week to answer questions sent in by you about all things “Heroes.”” [http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18281](http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18281) [spoiler]Q: “In ‘The Second Coming,’ Sylar says to Claire, ‘You see, I lost everything that made me special. Does Sylar mean that he permanently lost all of his acquired powers except for telekinesis? Has his slate of powers been ‘wiped clean’ and does he have to start all over again? If so, then by the end of ‘The Butterfly Effect,’ it appears that he only has his telekinesis power, Claire’s healing and regeneration power, and Bob’s power to turn things to gold. Or am I reading into things?” A: Nope that’s right. Sylar’s starting over. Getting a whole new slate of powers as he goes. You can count Jesse’s voice powers into the mix as well. [/spoiler] And for the BTE for a later episode: [spoiler]Q: “If Sylar’s slate is wiped clean the way you describe in BEHIND THE ECLIPSE #1, then his only power should be the ability to read brains, right?” A: You’d think — but for some reason, he was able to hang on to telekenisis. We’ll learn a little more about the effect of his first murder in chapter #8 of this volume — “Villains” (yes, it’s the chapter and volume title — like “new Shimmer”)[/spoiler] About Sylar’s abilties in the future scenes: [spoiler]Q: “If Sylar was starting with a clean slate (save for telekinesis) at the start of Vol. 3, how does he suddenly have Isaac’s and Ted’s abilities again four years in the future?” A: Uhhhm, not so suddenly, four years in the future — that’s four years of power gatherin’ — now the question you’ve gotta ask yourself is how did Sylar get those powers?[/spoiler] Regarding Peter’s abilities: [spoiler]Q: “Does Peter’s ability allow him to mimic the individual abilities his future self has learned or does encountering his future self only actually expose him to his own mimicry ability?” A: The second one. A truly excellent question, which we argued about for a week. If only we had the entire of Heroes Wiki there to mediate and explain it so clearly, we could have seen our kids that week.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/116 "2008-10-16T04:58:00Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > Ok so all the supers from Nathan’s generation and younger were either injected with the super serum or born from supers who got the super serum. > > Do we know if Mama Petrelli’s generation have natural super powers or where they given the super serum from an older generation? Or do we not know yet? > > Also since Adam is for sure a natural super surely there must be other natural supers out there. Adam is probably the oldest we will ever know becuse if others in the past were natural supers if they didn’t have Adams power then they would have died out by now Mama Petrelli made a comment that Nathan’s father was disappointed when Nathan didn’t have the gene. Also from the way the company came together it certainly sounds like there are plenty of natural supers and they only started making synthetic supers sometime in the past 40 years. I don’t know what Nathan’s age is supposed to be on the show, I am guessing since Claire is now 17 and Nathan presumably fathered her when he was very young and irresponsible then he is probably at least 34-35 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/117 "2008-10-16T05:06:57Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > And for the BTE for a later episode: > > [spoiler]Q: “If Sylar’s slate is wiped clean the way you describe in BEHIND THE ECLIPSE #1, then his only power should be the ability to read brains, right?” > > A: You’d think — but for some reason, he was able to hang on to telekenisis. We’ll learn a little more about the effect of his first murder in chapter #8 of this volume — “Villains” (yes, it’s the chapter and volume title — like “new Shimmer”)[/spoiler] Translation: Oh shit! We completely screwed that up! We’ll just hand-wave that- damn it, we’ve already written that episode. When is the earliest we can write it in? #08? Good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/118 "2008-10-16T05:42:50Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Translation: > > Oh shit! We completely screwed that up! We’ll just hand-wave that- damn it, we’ve already written that episode. When is the earliest we can write it in? #08? Good enough. Have you ever read comic books? You know, the main inspiration for the show? They do that shit all the time! ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/119 "2008-10-16T06:55:52Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Mama Petrelli made a comment that Nathan’s father was disappointed when Nathan didn’t have the gene. Also from the way the company came together it certainly sounds like there are plenty of natural supers and they only started making synthetic supers sometime in the past 40 years. I don’t know what Nathan’s age is supposed to be on the show, I am guessing since Claire is now 17 and Nathan presumably fathered her when he was very young and irresponsible then he is probably at least 34-35 years old. Adrian Pasdar is 43, and from looking at him I pegged him at right around 40. I don’t think we can (yet) make the claim that all of Nathan’s generation were super-serum babies. Angela certainly implied that Peter was natural born, and so far anyway there’ve been relatively few who are confirmed to have been made. Nathan, the Niki triplets… anyone else? Plus nearly all the major characters are children of the Company Founders, so they’d have that parental lineage, more than likely (although obviously not guaranteed, as with Nathan). ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821/120 "2008-10-16T08:25:32Z")
By the way, wasn’t there something about Pa Nakamura and Ma Petrelli hooking up at some point in the past? Now, Sylar doesn’t look very Asian, but still… 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-13-08-angels-and-monsters/467821.md?page=7)