# Heroes 10/22/07 - "Fight or Flight" (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 22, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627 "2007-10-22T22:15:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frosted\_Glass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frosted_glass/32/3926_2.png) [@Frosted\_Glass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frosted_Glass)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/21 "2007-10-23T04:12:23Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] :smack: That’s where he’s from! This show getting to be a “Hey it’s that guy!” sort of deal. [/QUOTE] What, you don’t remember “Needlenose Ned the Head”? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/22 "2007-10-23T05:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] _Everybody_ has powers. It’s “Heroes.” [/QUOTE] Simone didn’t; Ando doesn’t. Neither do Mohinder nor Bennet. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/23 "2007-10-23T06:42:20Z")
More interesting stuff from producing director Greg Beeman’s [blog](http://www.gregbeeman.blogspot.com/) Regarding Veronica Chars: > [@](#): > > This episode is, perhaps, most notable for the introduction of Kristen Bell to the HEROES lineup. We have been introducing a lot of new characters in these early episodes. I know that, to some people, it feels like it’s been too much too fast, and some wonder where have last year’s heroes gone? But Tim Kring expressed from the beginning of the development of this year that it was important to him to keep evolving the big-picture story. He really wanted to create a global sense to the show this year. Having said all that, I truly think everyone will agree that Kristen is an awesome addition to our recipe. > > If you don’t know her already, Kristen was the star of the well reviewed, but little-watched UPN and later CW show “VERONICA MARS.” Her performance as the eponymous character was routinely critically lauded. (Catch it on DVD if you’ve never seen it – it’s a real good TV show!!) > > Anyway, the story behind how she ended up on HEROES is a pretty good one. Last summer, after the HEROES panel at Comic-Con, two of our writers, Joe Pokaski and Aron Eli Coleite were riding from San Diego to LA on the train. Sitting in the same car, they saw Zach Quinto and Kristen Bell – who, as it turns out, are old-time best friends. Everyone got to talking, and Joe and Aron said “Hey if you ever want to be on the show, we’ll write a part for you.” To which Kristen replied, “Really? Well, maybe I’d be interested.” More talk revealed that Kristen was a huge fan of the show (mostly through her palship with Zach.) The deal was sealed when, later, Kristen’s cell phone flew out of her hands and she told Joe and Aron how she had “energy hands.” Seems she waves her hands around a lot when she’s talking, which builds up a lot of energy. When she stops waving them and holds on to an electronic device, that device will frequently fly out of her hands and break. > > Joe and Aron knew that, just that week, the writers were developing the character of Elle. Elle was a young woman who worked for the company, who could shoot lightening from her hands, and who was intended to be a dramatic doppelganger/compliment to the innocent/earnest Claire. In that instant on the Amtrak train fate connected the dots. The next morning Joe and Aron told Tim Kring, Dennis Hammer and anyone who would listen. That very morning phone calls started flying in the way that they only can in Hollywood. Agents, network executives and producers began scheming and hatching plans. Talented actress without a show. Hit show in need of talented actress. It seemed the perfect fit! > > Two weeks later Kristen was standing in a Hollywood parking lot full of shipping containers, surrounded by green screen (which – with the help of CGI - was standing in for a shipping dock in Ireland.) She began that day to explore the character of Elle, the slightly demented, slightly power-mad “Company Gal.” The piano scene: > [@](#): > > Noah Gray-Cabey, who plays Micah, is such a great kid. He’s, like, a genius. He’s only 11, but he’s already in 9th grade. He’s a real sweetie on set, and I love seeing his big smile break out in this episode. In real life, he is a virtuoso piano player. I believe the OPRAH WINFREY SHOW originally discovered him (he played piano there) which led to a Hollywood talent agent approaching him about acting. Tim had been wanting to create a scene for him to play piano in the show. And, so, the scene where Monica enters the house, sees him playing, and mimics it, was developed. The double-dutch scene: > [@](#): > > The double dutch scene is a good example of how complex it is to direct one of our episodes. In just this one scene, there is a lot to pay attention to because there are so many levels, both technical and emotional, which one has to bring out for the audience. In this one scene, where the characters walk into a busy playground, looking to try out her powers, the director must remember to develop Micah and Monica’s new relationship for the audience. Then the director must get the shots to tell the story of a busy playground – skateboarding, basketball, double dutch, Then the director must stage and shoot that Monica has a challenge from the neighborhood girls, and that she stands up to them in a tough but nice way – which is another important aspect of her character to show to the audience. Then she begins to double dutch. This involves shooting wide shots over Micah to the jump roping double (you must connect the two characters visually on screen!) Then closer angles of Monica jumping rope. Now, Dana had learned the choreographed move, but wasn’t really able to jump rope. So she was photographed against a blue screen. The background girls were photographed as what is called a back plate behind her. And they were twirling wooden handles only. The spinning ropes were digitally added in post. Of course once Monica’s jumping – the director can’t forget to get close up angles of Monica looking to Micah and smiling, and of Micah looking back and smiling. (The cool power is nice, but the emotion is what really matters!) And all that for a 35 second scene that had to be completely shot in 4 hours before lunch! Ouch! The fight scene: > [@](#): > > This was a difficult sequence to both comprehend and visualize. It had many technical complexities – for instance, Adrian Pasdar had to have 3 hours of makeup to play the scar-faced version of himself. This meant we had to split up the scene where he fights himself over two days. The first day he wore the makeup and on the second one he didn’t. There would be a stunt/photo double for him to fight himself. But we also wanted to put Adrian in the same frame with himself 2 or three times, which meant moving split-screen shots. We decided to blow ash on the set, coming from the burning NYC buildings. Etc. Etc. And the spoilers: Next week: Hiro and gang take on White Beard in feudal Japan, Peter and Caitlain visit a new city (and a new version of and old city!?!), Claire makes the cheerleading squad in her own special way, and HRG visits and old friend in Odessa (Russia that is!) ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/24 "2007-10-23T06:46:56Z")
Well, that’s interesting. Parkman’s dad turns out to be an evil bastard after all. It really looked like they were going to set him up as a victim. I wonder if his power is just an expanded version of Matt’s or something different. A pretty evil sort of power to have. So it looks like Matt can full on telepathically communicate with people instead of merely passively reading thoughts. I wonder if he can eventually learn the nightmare power? Nawlins girl is really awesome. Such a cool power and pretty much limitless potential. Niki really likes locking herself up. I have a feeling it won’t last long though. Quite an entrance! So who’s the dad of Electra? Bob the Alchemist maybe? I wish we got to see her kill the irish guy, I imagined it would’ve been like the emperor vs Luke from ROTJ. I’m really glad we got a break from the Claire/West after school special. I kinda missed Mayahandryler but whatever, I can wait a week. We got to see plenty of Hiro still without anything really happening with his story. Where are they going with this? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/25 "2007-10-23T11:24:43Z")
Anyone else think that the one behind the murders is a not-really-dead father of Peter and Nathan? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/26 "2007-10-23T12:30:56Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > Parkman’s dad turns out to be an evil bastard after all. Not necessarily. If he’s in fight or flight mode because the company’s after him then it makes perfect sense for him to nightmare Matt and Nathan without his being evil. [QUOTE=RikWriter] Anyone else think that the one behind the murders is a not-really-dead father of Peter and Nathan? [/QUOTE] I think I suggested something similar last week, and I also have a feeling he’s the “guy in horn-rimmed glasses” who bagged and tagged West. But I definitely think he’s still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Tupug\_Anachi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@Tupug\_Anachi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tupug_Anachi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/27 "2007-10-23T13:20:06Z")
Anyone else notice our ubiquitous symbol turning up on Elle’s ring? I’m not altogether digging Hiro being stuck back in time. Still, a good show. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/28 "2007-10-23T13:21:45Z")
Well, Nightmare Dad’s power explains how Angela’s injuries were self-inflicted, but still doesn’t reveal how the Kaito killing went down. _Really_ liked this episode. No Mexican Wonder Twins. No stupid West. Dumb Oirish guy gets gacked – _and_ it happens offscreen, so no more time wasted on _that_. N’Awlins stuff was good (although I really wanted her walking down in the Quarter, mimicking the living statue performers and whatnot). Ando’s miniscule presence was _still_ more interesting than the Hiro-in-the-past storyline. Interesting that Mohinder knew Niki – I don’t recall that they had much interaction last season, so it must have occurred in the 4-month gap. Also interesting that they’ve not gone with the “telepaths are always geniuses” cliche you see in most comics (e.g., creepy Professor X). Because, God love 'im, Matt just isn’t too bright. Particularly since his one reaction should have been “hey! I got us out of dad’s whammy, I can get comatose whatshername out of it!” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/29 "2007-10-23T13:28:32Z")
Mohinder helped Niki, DL, and Micah escape from The Company. That’s where they ran into each other. When and if he runs into Micah, he should recognize him. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/30 "2007-10-23T13:32:34Z")
Ah, had forgotten that, remembering more the Mohinder-Matt-Noah standoff. But that reminds me: wonder why Bob was hinting to Mohinder that Monica’s (? Copycat-girl’s) powers might be dangerous and uncontrolled? The Company has seemed pretty good at intelligence on the heroes… ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/31 "2007-10-23T13:41:39Z")
I just thought of a great moment the writers should have thought of… (Peter rummages through paraphernalia in box) Peter: “Peter…Petrelli? What kind of dumbass name is THAT?” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/32 "2007-10-23T14:04:15Z")
I wonder if Elle has any idea just what she was getting herself into? Peter may not have much control, but he’s a hell of a lot more powerful than Elle, and between healing and adding her powers to his own, he’ll chew her up and spit her out. What next - send her to pick up Sylar? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/33 "2007-10-23T14:22:50Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Ah, had forgotten that, remembering more the Mohinder-Matt-Noah standoff. But that reminds me: wonder why Bob was hinting to Mohinder that Monica’s (? Copycat-girl’s) powers might be dangerous and uncontrolled? The Company has seemed pretty good at intelligence on the heroes… [/QUOTE] Her powers are dangerous and uncontrolled. She took out robber-guy without even thinking about it. From her dialog, it sounded like she wasn’t even aware she was doing it until she was flying through the air. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/34 "2007-10-23T14:26:26Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] I wonder if Elle has any idea just what she was getting herself into? Peter may not have much control, but he’s a hell of a lot more powerful than Elle, and between healing and adding her powers to his own, he’ll chew her up and spit her out. What next - send her to pick up Sylar? [/QUOTE] The first power we saw Peter use this season was lightning - Elle knew to look for the shipping container - therefore they have already met. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/35 "2007-10-23T14:40:52Z")
[QUOTE=Tupug Anachi] Anyone else notice our ubiquitous symbol turning up on Elle’s ring? [/QUOTE] It was also above the door in the painting of the building Peter and his Irish lass will go to in Montreal. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/36 "2007-10-23T15:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] I wonder if Elle has any idea just what she was getting herself into? Peter may not have much control, but he’s a hell of a lot more powerful than Elle, and between healing and adding her powers to his own, he’ll chew her up and spit her out. What next - send her to pick up Sylar? [/QUOTE] Who says that [del]Veronica Chars[/del] Elle was there to fight Peter if she found him? She’s an attractive young lady, he’s a red-blooded heterosexual male, sparks of the non-superhuman variety may have been sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/37 "2007-10-23T15:19:30Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Wsparks of the non-superhuman variety may have been sufficient. [/QUOTE] Only after sparks of the superhuman variety removed the Irish competition… ---
**Author:** ![kurilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea5d25/32.png) [@kurilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurilla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/38 "2007-10-23T15:21:39Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Also interesting that they’ve not gone with the “telepaths are always geniuses” cliche you see in most comics (e.g., creepy Professor X). Because, God love 'im, Matt just isn’t too bright. Particularly since his one reaction should have been “hey! I got us out of dad’s whammy, I can get comatose whatshername out of it!” [/QUOTE] Her name’s Molly – and yes, that was my first thought, too. But when he gets back to his apartment and Mohinder and Molly are both gone… ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/39 "2007-10-23T15:37:12Z")
I had a belly full of much good Chinese food, and was more than a little groggy, but still a very good episode I thought. I liked the fake-out with Matt’s dad - I am naive and totally bought that he was just another misunderstood victim until he Nightmared them. _Awesome_ superpower. I never watched and know nothing about _Veronica Mars_, so I have no idea who the blonde chick is, but she seems to be a good actress and it’s fun to have another I’m-not-psychotic-like-Sylar-just-old-fashioned-evil character around now that Eric Roberts is gone. Watching Peter and Caitlin making out all the time is more than a little nauseating. I had already known that bit of info about Micah being a piano prodigy IRL, it was very cool to get to see him play. OT a bit - my mom was in town for the last couple days (hence, the reason we went out for Chinese), and I was telling her about this show since she’s a huge sci-fi and _Star Trek_ fan. Have you ever tried to give someone like a five minute rundown on what’s happened in the show so far? Made me sound like a complete psycho, it did. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627/40 "2007-10-23T16:00:10Z")
See, I’m not convinced that Papa Parkman is capital-E Evil yet. As has been mentioned in a couple of previous threads, the last he knew Molly was Company Property so putting the whammy on her is defensible if he’s on the run. Now suddenly after 25 years his son shows up out of nowhere with some guy Papa Parkman doesn’t know, asking about the whammy that he’d put on the Company Property. Again, not at all unreasonable for him to whammy them and escape. Papa parkman is petty and small, sure, but he’s not necessarily EVIL. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-22-07-fight-or-flight-spoilers/423627.md?page=3)