# Heroes 10/23 "Hiro's" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619 "2006-10-23T21:12:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/121 "2006-10-25T03:24:33Z")
Rewatching bits of the episode, I was wondering - while Niki is talking to Nathan, does she go into ikiN mode? When he says to her, “Someone…good” as he’s describing what he thought of her, the music goes all weird, and then she looks up at him with a slightly different expression when she says, “I didn’t know they were going to do anything to you.” Maybe I’m being overly sensitive. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/122 "2006-10-25T03:27:23Z")
No, I noticed the change in music and expression too. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/123 "2006-10-25T03:41:15Z")
[QUOTE=Tengu] Also, I am reminded by the bit of dialogue quoted above, the future Hiro is coming from is likely one where Peter and the others never saved Claire. So, even if Claire’s regeneration deals with pre-existing scars, Peter couldn’t have picked it up to use it, anyway. [/QUOTE] I was actually thinking about that last night, but here’s the thing: if FutureHiro comes from a timeline where Claire was never saved, and his message to the past is the means by which Claire does get saved, then doesn’t it turn out that he never goes back to deliver the message, and thus she CAN’T be saved? It’s like the paradox in the (utterly terrible) movie version of The Time Machine, where he creates the time machine to go back and keep his fiance from getting murdered, but the timestream won’t allow her to be saved because it is her death that caused him to create the time machine in the first place. If she doesn’t die, there is no time machine, so he can’t have gone back in time to save her. Although if one assumes that parallel universes exist, and that time can branch out into multiple streams, I suppose it’s possible that when Future Hiro goes back to warn Peter about saving the cheerleader, another stream of possibility has been created. (Can you tell I’m trying desperately to avoid schoolwork?) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/124 "2006-10-25T03:41:49Z")
I caught that too. It’s going to be interesting to learn exactly what’s up with Nikki. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/125 "2006-10-25T04:33:27Z")
[Stepping back to look at the forest, instead of the individual trees.] Before this show aired, the promos didn’t incite any interest at all in me to see the show. It sounded like total crap to me. But, somehow, the buzz after the premiere reached my brain. Since then, I have been watching, and rewatching, each episode. If the pace keeps up this could be the show of the year. Writers, please don’t disappoint me. ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/126 "2006-10-25T06:16:43Z")
I had sort of the same feeling as **Oslo Ostragoth**. When I heard about the show I thought it might be worth checking out. The first two episodes were good enough, but didn’t really excite me all that much. The episodes since, however, have made me a big fan! Hiro’s my favorite character - little things like his reaction when he found out the diner had waffles are just hilarious. The two scenes that had me gigling in comic book fanboy glee where when Future-Hiro appeared to Peter Petrelli and the moment when Nathan Petrelli hunkered down as if he was going to try to fight and suddenly shot into the sky like a rocket. 🙂 Did anyone watch the Heroes marathon NBC ran on Sunday night? At the end was a two minute “in upcoming episodes” promo ([here it is on Youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbTiF28rQTc)). A lot of it was stuff from Monday’s show, but there were a few shots of stuff that’s still to come, such as: [spoiler]Mohinder and Pixie-neighbor girl kissing a shot of Niki’s husband with their son, and the son saying something like “I know you have a secret. Mom has a secret too” Niki _cuddling up_ with on-the-run-criminal-husband!? Flashback maybe? or is it Evil-Niki? Scary-horn-rimmed-glasses-dad saying “Hello Isaac [the Prognostipainter], we need your help.” And is that Pixie-neighbor girl standing in the background?! I’ve watched it a several times and can’t tell for sure. Psi-cop shouting “Something is happening to me too” to a guy who’s causing water to boil in a glass Nathan Petrelli saying “How fast do you think we could [something]” Sounds like either “fly” or “find him”? I’m thinking it’s “fly” because they cut to a shot of him flying when he says it[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/127 "2006-10-25T06:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=Santos L Halper] The two scenes that had me gigling in comic book fanboy glee where when Future-Hiro appeared to Peter Petrelli and the moment when Nathan Petrelli hunkered down as if he was going to try to fight and suddenly shot into the sky like a rocket. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Nathan launching into the air (and his later landing) was the coolest scene in the episode, but it was diminished because they showed it to us in the previews last week. If I hadn’t already known what was going to happen I really would have jumped right off the couch with fan-boy glee. To the network execs: We already like the show. Don’t show us the coolest parts in the previews! ---
**Author:** ![running\_piglet\_cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/22d042/32.png) [@running\_piglet\_cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_piglet_cheese)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/128 "2006-10-25T10:08:08Z")
If ikiN is responsible for the crime for which DL is accused, it would explain where the money for the nice red convertible came from and why she knew where the bodies were buried. But if she has the 2 mil, why didn’t she pay off the debt to Linderman? DL must at least suspect her otherwise why would he confide his whereabouts to his mom and son, but not to Niki? Was the reason he came back to Vegas to protect Micah from ikiN? Also, Linderman’s offer to Nathan was 2 million, same amount that was stolen. Coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/129 "2006-10-25T12:16:01Z")
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese] Also, Linderman’s offer to Nathan was 2 million, same amount that was stolen. Coincidence? [/QUOTE] Yes. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/130 "2006-10-25T12:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=anyrose] cool, but I can’t decide if it’s helpful or not. No episode on Monday (no idea why, but promo said “in two weeks”) so we have to wait. grrr. [/QUOTE] My DVR says there is indeed a new episode Monday, the 30th. Called “Better Halves.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/131 "2006-10-25T13:56:23Z")
> [@simster](#): > > How much you wanna bet that DL and the Eraser are brothers/cousins… they look an awful lot alike. > > [QUOTE=foolsguinea] > No, not really. [/quote] Yeah, try watching _Lost_ and keep all the generic blondes straight. re: Quicksilver and Crystal–wasn’t Crystal the woman with the prehensile hair and the big dog, and she was so fragile that if she ever got hit she’d die, and she hung out with the guy who, if he ever sneezed, would vaporize Schenectady, because irony was a powerful force in the Silver Age? ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/132 "2006-10-25T14:04:26Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] I was actually thinking about that last night, but here’s the thing: if FutureHiro comes from a timeline where Claire was never saved, and his message to the past is the means by which Claire does get saved, then doesn’t it turn out that he never goes back to deliver the message, and thus she CAN’T be saved? It’s like the paradox in the (utterly terrible) movie version of The Time Machine, where he creates the time machine to go back and keep his fiance from getting murdered, but the timestream won’t allow her to be saved because it is her death that caused him to create the time machine in the first place. If she doesn’t die, there is no time machine, so he can’t have gone back in time to save her. Although if one assumes that parallel universes exist, and that time can branch out into multiple streams, I suppose it’s possible that when Future Hiro goes back to warn Peter about saving the cheerleader, another stream of possibility has been created. (Can you tell I’m trying desperately to avoid schoolwork?) [/QUOTE] The solution to this paradox is not absolutely crazy: say there was a future where they failed, and that Hiro (Hiro A) went back in time to warn Peter about the consequences they found. Now, the only thing that needs to happen to preserve that timeline is for the Hiro from the future of the _new_ timeline (Hiro B) to go back to the same moment and place and deliver roughly the same warning to past Peter. It closes the loop in the new reality, keeping Good Timeline on the rails without a paradox occuring. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/133 "2006-10-25T14:11:49Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] I was actually thinking about that last night, but here’s the thing: if FutureHiro comes from a timeline where Claire was never saved, and his message to the past is the means by which Claire does get saved, then doesn’t it turn out that he never goes back to deliver the message, and thus she CAN’T be saved? [/QUOTE] Well, it could be like “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure” (a movie which got time travel surprisingly right.) ``` Picture this, the Heroes are sitting around the secret hideout somewhere, having beers and reminiscing and Peter says "Boy, Hiro, it's a good thing you came back in time and told me to save the cheerleader." And Hiro says, "Um, hang on a bit guys, forgot something, I'll, uh, be right back. Oh, remind me again, where exactly did I talk to you?" ``` ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/134 "2006-10-25T14:18:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] Yeah, try watching _Lost_ and keep all the generic blondes straight. re: Quicksilver and Crystal–wasn’t Crystal the woman with the prehensile hair and the big dog, and she was so fragile that if she ever got hit she’d die, and she hung out with the guy who, if he ever sneezed, would vaporize Schenectady, because irony was a powerful force in the Silver Age? [/QUOTE] You are thinking of Medusa. Crystal was, I think, her sister. She had some kind of elemental powers. On the subject of comics, it would make sense for it to be Sale drawing the art. Jeph Loeb is a producer and they have worked together on quite a few projects. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/135 "2006-10-25T14:22:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] re: Quicksilver and Crystal–wasn’t Crystal the woman with the prehensile hair and the big dog, and she was so fragile that if she ever got hit she’d die, and she hung out with the guy who, if he ever sneezed, would vaporize Schenectady, because irony was a powerful force in the Silver Age? [/QUOTE] You seem to be conflating Crystal and Medusa there. Crystal hangs out with Lockjaw (the big dog, who really isn’t a dog) more than Medusa, at least in the books I’ve read. But Medusa is the one with the prehensile hair, who is married to Black Bolt, he of the destructive voice. I don’t remember either Crystal or Medusa being particularly fragile (in fact, given their origins, I would think they’re both relatively sturdy), but then the Fantastic Four and Inhumans are a corner of the Marvel Universe I’ve barely explored. Re: the Hiro Paradox - it’s also solvable by the fact that time travel, by definition, plays holy hell with cause and effect. When they change the future, they won’t change the past (without going back in time and actively doing so) - even if the Hiro of the new future never bothers to go back and talk to Peter to close the loop, the Hiro of the old future did, and that event is sitting unchanged - becoming a causeless effect, but, in effect, it was to begin with, as its cause happened at least 5 weeks after it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/136 "2006-10-25T14:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] My latest [chart](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/bedgyro/Heroes_Chart-2.jpg). [/QUOTE] Very nice… Why both pink and blue lines connecting Hiro to Isaac and Peter? And double blue lines between Ando and Niki? And the double lines between Isaac and Simone. And how is Claire connected to Sylar? And Petrelli Dad to Linderman? Are the lines color coded? Is red for relatives? I tried to do this once for Buffy/Angel relationships. It was… complex. 🙂 I’m still loving the show, but I’m starting to get a bit annoyed by Hiro’s inconsistant level of English. He knows enough to read the comic and the headline, and the diner menu, and to have a decent stilted conversation with Nathan, but can’t talk to Peter and Isaac on the phone without Ando? (Why didn’t he get Ando to call in the first place?) And he can’t talk to the car rental lady outside of shouting “Nissan Versa!” ? Wihch is it? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/137 "2006-10-25T15:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=gonzoron] I’m still loving the show, but I’m starting to get a bit annoyed by Hiro’s inconsistant level of English. He knows enough to read the comic and the headline, and the diner menu, and to have a decent stilted conversation with Nathan, but can’t talk to Peter and Isaac on the phone without Ando? (Why didn’t he get Ando to call in the first place?) And he can’t talk to the car rental lady outside of shouting “Nissan Versa!” ? Wihch is it? [/QUOTE] As far as the menu, dude, _pictures_. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/138 "2006-10-25T15:45:43Z")
I don’t think it was as much reading the words, as looking at the pictures and figuring out what was going on. If you ever tried teaching a small child to read, you’ll notice that they use the pictures to guess what the words are saying. If you read enough comics, you can pretty much guess what’s going on without too many words and waffles are well…WAFFLES! Same with the phone, when we speak, we often give visual cues as to what we’re trying to convery, especially when dealing with people who don’t speak the same language that we do…on the phone those cues aren’t present, so I think it’s much harder to ‘guess’ what’s being said…so while I agree that they’re being a bit convenient with Hiro’s level of understanding, they’re not that far off. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/139 "2006-10-25T16:09:17Z")
I can also add that while I’m reasonably proficient in _reading_ Spanish, I can’t understand two words in ten when it’s spoken to me. And like **Holmes** said, if someone is face to face with a non-English speaker, they’ll speak more slowly, over-enunciate, etc. On the phone, Hiro probably can’t figure out half of what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![running\_piglet\_cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/22d042/32.png) [@running\_piglet\_cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_piglet_cheese)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619/140 "2006-10-25T19:44:00Z")
TV Guide shows Heroes airing 10/30 at the regular time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-10-23-hiros-spoilers/377619.md?page=8)