# Heroes 11/19/07 - "Cautionary Tales" (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089 "2007-11-19T21:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/81 "2007-11-20T22:12:14Z")
[QUOTE=Yeeter] …and don’t forget that it’s ok to time travel back to feudal Japan to screw up a whole bunch of stuff (and stay too long – so much so that the story is not interesting at all). [/QUOTE] Point of order, Hiro did not intend to travel back to feudal Japan. He got TKed by Sylar and reflexively constiported, winding up in feudal Japan where (he believed) his presence altered the timeline. Do we know for a _fact_ that Kensai wouldn’t have been a hero without Hiro’s intervention? Of course not. But given his at-the-time existence as a discredited drunken sot, it seems likely that he would have remained a discredited drunken sot. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/82 "2007-11-20T22:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Do we know for a _fact_ that Kensai wouldn’t have been a hero without Hiro’s intervention? Of course not. But given his at-the-time existence as a discredited drunken sot, it seems likely that he would have remained a discredited drunken sot. [/QUOTE] And then there are all the stories written by the swordsmith’s daughter talking about Kensei as a great Japanese man and not as a British man. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/83 "2007-11-20T22:20:46Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] Man, Kristen Bell is a damn good actress. I loved her in _Veronica Mars_, but now in _Heroes_ I hate her. I’d still have freaky electric sex with her, though. [/QUOTE] That goes great with your username. Good ep. I hope the next two are as good or better. _excited_ ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/84 "2007-11-20T22:31:19Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] And then there are all the stories written by the swordsmith’s daughter talking about Kensei as a great Japanese man and not as a British man. [/QUOTE] This is what makes me think that Hiro is/was the legendary samurai that his dad told him stories about when he was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/85 "2007-11-20T22:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=Tahssa] This is what makes me think that Hiro is/was the legendary samurai that his dad told him stories about when he was a kid. [/QUOTE] I think Hiro’s younger self brandishing a sword yelling “I am Takezo Kensei” is a big tipoff that that’s what we’re supposed to think. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/86 "2007-11-20T23:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] And then there are all the stories written by the swordsmith’s daughter talking about Kensei as a great Japanese man and not as a British man. [/QUOTE] You know, I’m still bugged by their choice to have Kensai turn out to be British. Why the heck did they do that? ---
**Author:** ![stucco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@stucco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stucco)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/87 "2007-11-21T00:24:48Z")
I know I’m late, but that was a good episode wasn’t it. I’m glad West and Claire’s mother finally turned interesting. Did anyone else think that the parking lot by the beach looked suspiciously like the parking lot in Date My Mom? Is there anyone else in the world who watches both Date My Mom and Heroes? When old Hiro and young Hiro simultaneously pushed their glasses up their noses, my heart almost melted. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/88 "2007-11-21T00:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=stucco] I know I’m late, but that was a good episode wasn’t it. I’m glad West and Claire’s mother finally turned interesting. … [/QUOTE] Claire’s mom has her moments. I think she had to be a lot more interesting than what we usually see to have caught Noah’s eye. He doesn’t seem like a guy to go for the dippy type and she’s more than just a cover for him because we’ve seen tender moments between those two. I think the dippy dog-lover act is just something she does around her kids. There’s layers there we don’t get to see. A bit of trivia: The actress who plays Claire’s mom is married to the actor who played Nuclear Ted. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/89 "2007-11-21T00:45:44Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Claire’s mom has her moments. I think she had to be a lot more interesting than what we usually see to have caught Noah’s eye. He doesn’t seem like a guy to go for the dippy type and she’s more than just a cover for him because we’ve seen tender moments between those two. I think the dippy dog-lover act is just something she does around her kids. There’s layers there we don’t get to see. [/QUOTE] The dippy dog-lover thing is in part because of the Swiss-cheesing of her brain by the Haitian. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/90 "2007-11-21T00:46:44Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] Nah. Outright mind control, except perhaps in the most extreme situations, is pretty much evil. Messing with free will and all. [/quote] Oh, Angela Petrelli did her share of that, too. She had zero credibility when she tells someone they have to do something or not do something because it’s the right thing to do. Who knows why she wants to hide Victoria Pratt’s identity, or that it’s to protect Victoria and/or for a morally good reason? I think doing the opposite of what Angela Petrelli tells you to do is a good idea, in general, and Parkman has plenty reason to find Pratt, to SAVE HER LIFE. I can’t agree that, across the board, using mental powers to get info is evil. If it saves 97% of the world from a plague, is extracting info from a known evil person, and pisses off Angela Petrelli at the same time, then it’s OK by me. > [@](#): > > It’s in the superhero handbook, just after how you can’t use time travel to directly save people who have already died, just, at best, to pass back cryptic messages to others in the past to avoid mass casualties. It’s in the superhero handbook? Is that your reason? > [@](#): > > Besides, I wasn’t talking about just her. Experimenting with his daughter? Making his superior do his bidding instead of sneaking behind his back like a proper maverick cop? These are not light-side actions. He pushed Molly too far, and I agree that was screwed up, but again, he thought he was doing good, and didn’t realize she could get really hurt. As for the thing with his superior, eh, whatever, that guy was being a dick. “Proper maverick cop”? There are an awful lot of rules in your Heroes viewing world that I didn’t know about. Light-side? Dark-side? Isn’t everyone in this show on the grey-side? Parkman is not a shiny happy superhero. I’m so glad about that. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/91 "2007-11-21T00:50:26Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] You know, I’m still bugged by their choice to have Kensai turn out to be British. Why the heck did they do that? [/QUOTE] The cynic in me wants to say “political correctness.” ---
**Author:** ![Noelq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noelq/32/16438_2.png) [@Noelq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noelq)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/92 "2007-11-21T00:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Claire’s mom has her moments. I think she had to be a lot more interesting than what we usually see to have caught Noah’s eye. He doesn’t seem like a guy to go for the dippy type and she’s more than just a cover for him because we’ve seen tender moments between those two. I think the dippy dog-lover act is just something she does around her kids. There’s layers there we don’t get to see. A bit of trivia: The actress who plays Claire’s mom is married to the actor who played Nuclear Ted. [/QUOTE] She also plays off having a stroke quite well. A google search didn’t turn up anything about the actress having a stroke, or related symptoms. Is it just great acting, or does anybody know if the actress really had a stroke? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/93 "2007-11-21T00:50:59Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] You know, I’m still bugged by their choice to have Kensai turn out to be British. Why the heck did they do that? [/QUOTE] He’s British, so you know he’s evil. Just listen to that accent. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/94 "2007-11-21T00:53:30Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Claire’s mom has her moments. [/QUOTE] Bob called her Cassandra. Is that the first mention of her name? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/95 "2007-11-21T01:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] The dippy dog-lover thing is in part because of the Swiss-cheesing of her brain by the Haitian. [/QUOTE] Hey! You all stop that RIGHT NOW. There is nothing dippy about loving Mr. Muggles. Mr. Muggles is awesome. Hell, if if Claire had listened to Mr. Muggles trying to point out Stalker West, he could have prevented all that followed. Don’t dis Mr. Muggles. okay, is that “dis” or “diss”? [QUOTE=Rubystreak] I think doing the opposite of what Angela Petrelli tells you to do is a good idea, in general… [/QUOTE] Ironically, making people do the opposite of what she wants them to do seems to be her power, too. (at least as applies to her kids. and Matt.) ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/96 "2007-11-21T01:06:15Z")
So what, Mr. Muggles is related to Vincent? They _know_ things? Diss, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/97 "2007-11-21T01:19:46Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Hey! You all stop that RIGHT NOW. There is nothing dippy about loving Mr. Muggles. Mr. Muggles is awesome. Hell, if if Claire had listened to Mr. Muggles trying to point out Stalker West, he could have prevented all that followed. Don’t dis Mr. Muggles. … [/QUOTE] Not dissing Mr. Muggles, I agree he’s awesome and probably does _know_ things\*. But no matter how much I love dogs I would never hold one while I’m eating at the dinner table and let it lick me right on the mouth that = dippy. \*[sub]Hey, did I actually help to originate this meme?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/98 "2007-11-21T01:41:29Z")
Does anyone have the complete quote from Hiro? ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/99 "2007-11-21T01:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] He pushed Molly too far, and I agree that was screwed up, but again, he thought he was doing good, and didn’t realize she could get really hurt. [/QUOTE] Pushed her too far? Huh? All he did was make her eat her cereal, and that was more of a “wait, can I really control minds” sort of thing. The first command he gave her wasn’t a conscious decision, he didn’t know he was doing it. The cereal thing was a confirmation, and in all actuality, is forcing a kid to eat a bo ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089/100 "2007-11-21T02:17:27Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I think Hiro’s younger self brandishing a sword yelling “I am Takezo Kensei” is a big tipoff that that’s what we’re supposed to think. [/QUOTE] Heh I thought it was the bit where Hiro the elder replied “Yes you are” 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-19-07-cautionary-tales-spoilers/427089.md?page=6)