# Heroes 11/27 - "Six Months Ago" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 27, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988 "2006-11-27T21:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/161 "2006-12-01T15:56:29Z")
[QUOTE=Archergal] I’d really like to buy this, but as others have pointed out, they cut back\* to Charlie having her head sliced open again at the end of the show. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I didn’t see that. All I saw was Charlie with blood dripping down her head. Was there actually a scene with her head open, or did we see the cut? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/162 "2006-12-01T16:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Sorry, I didn’t see that. All I saw was Charlie with blood dripping down her head. Was there actually a scene with her head open, or did we see the cut? [/QUOTE] When Charlie first died, she was opening a big can of food. There was a sound effect like a sword slice and the blood started dripping down her face. AED later showed Isaac a picture of Charlie sans brain. The same exact shot of Charlie was used at the beginning of this ep to recap her death, and the same exact shot was used at the end of the ep to show that she still died in exactly the same way because Hiro couldn’t save her. I seriously have no idea how people are getting the notion that she has now died of natural causes when absolutely nothing on-screen supports it in any way. People are thinking that the blood gushing down her face is now a result of her burst aneurysm, but while IANAMD I have never heard of a symptom of a burst aneurysm being blood gushing down the front of your head. As for people recognizing Hiro when he walked back in the diner after his constiportation, no one there reacted to his presence except Ando. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/163 "2006-12-01T17:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=Rhiannon8404] As far as I’m concerned all three could go up in flames and I’d be just fine with it. Maybe I’m becoming impatient. This is really the first TV show of this type I’ve ever tried to watch regularly. I find it frustrating that there are so many characters with open storylines, unresolved issues, etc. You can go a couple of episodes without see this character or that one. There’s so much backstory we don’t know. My brain hurts! Fewer characters might help that. LOL! Don’t get me wrong, I love the show. I’m guess I’m still just getting used to the style of it. [/QUOTE] If Heroes bothers you, RUN, don’t walk, away from Lost. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/164 "2006-12-01T17:30:59Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Well there certainly is [no precedent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Francis_Doyle) for a show killing off a lead character after less than a dozen episodes, certainly not any from [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanished) [season](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Break). [/QUOTE] For some reason a better example popped into my head. In the first episode of Buffy the character Jesse (Eric Balfour) is featured in the opening credits as one of the main characters (Xander’s best friend). In no time he is turned into a vampire then killed permenantly. That was more of a trick played on the audience. Killing Issac wouldn’t be. I thought of one reason that Issac needs to stay alive. They don’t plan on ending this show in a few episodes. A plot device is needed to let the heroes know what the next mission/crisis is after the NYC plot is resolved. Issac is that plot device. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/165 "2006-12-01T17:45:33Z")
Unless Syler eats his brain and they capture Syler again, lock him in a cell with a heroine drip in his arm and hand him a paintbrush… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/166 "2006-12-01T17:55:24Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] When Charlie first died, she was opening a big can of food. There was a sound effect like a sword slice and the blood started dripping down her face. AED later showed Isaac a picture of Charlie sans brain. The same exact shot of Charlie was used at the beginning of this ep to recap her death, and the same exact shot was used at the end of the ep to show that she still died in exactly the same way because Hiro couldn’t save her. I seriously have no idea how people are getting the notion that she has now died of natural causes when absolutely nothing on-screen supports it in any way. People are thinking that the blood gushing down her face is now a result of her burst aneurysm, but while IANAMD I have never heard of a symptom of a burst aneurysm being blood gushing down the front of your head. As for people recognizing Hiro when he walked back in the diner after his constiportation, no one there reacted to his presence except Ando. [/QUOTE] FTR, I have said that the “recap” may not be what neccisarily happened… not that it showed the result of an aneurysm… IMHO, the way events unfolded after Hiro jumped back were different than the way the unfolded when he first arrived… meaning that we now no longer know the manner or timing of Charlies death… we assume (as Hiro does) that he was unable to save her from Sylar, but the reality is his realization that he could not save her meant that ‘no matter what he did, she would die’ - he was able to give her enough info to aid her in avoiding Sylar (since Sylar apparently only has a list of “current addresses” to go on - and no inate ability to locate Heros) - again, assuming she believed him enough to act on that info. I’m willing to bet that we will see Charlie again - after all, this is a ‘Comic Book’ show, and there is a precedent for thinking that a particular charector is dead, only for them to return later. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/167 "2006-12-01T18:45:54Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] For some reason a better example popped into my head. In the first episode of Buffy the character Jesse (Eric Balfour) is featured in the opening credits as one of the main characters (Xander’s best friend). In no time he is turned into a vampire then killed permenantly. That was more of a trick played on the audience. Killing Issac wouldn’t be. [/QUOTE] Actually, no, Joss Whedon _wanted_ to include Jesse Balfour in the opening credits but didn’t have the budget to do one credit sequence for just the premiere ep and another for the remaining eps. He references the notion when he put Amber Benson in the opening credits for her last episode, both as a joke and as a salute to Amber. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/168 "2006-12-01T19:28:58Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Actually, no, Joss Whedon _wanted_ to include Jesse Balfour in the opening credits but didn’t have the budget to do one credit sequence for just the premiere ep and another for the remaining eps. He references the notion when he put Amber Benson in the opening credits for her last episode, both as a joke and as a salute to Amber. [/QUOTE] On one hand it is good to know that my brain can still retain information I heard once years ago on a commentary track, on the other it sucks that in my old age I seem to be scrambling up the details. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/169 "2006-12-01T19:31:33Z")
(STRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEETTTCCCCCCHHHHHHH) Aaaah, I’ve had a nice two-month Dope Break. I was going to wait until the end of the month to re-up so I could submit my 2007 Death Pool picks, but there are a few threads that are driving me nuts. Take this one. so we see the footage of Charlie getting opened again. So the hell what? That doesn’t mean she died that way again. It was part of freakin’ montage, underneath Mohinder’s VO. In the same segment, we also saw footage of Nathan flying up to rescue Peter in the alley, but I don’t read anyone wondering why Peter jumped off the building again. Charlie died of her brain aneurism, off-camera, IMO. The lesson for Hiro is that she was fated to die, and there was nothing he could have done to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/170 "2006-12-01T19:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] (STRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEETTTCCCCCCHHHHHHH) Aaaah, I’ve had a nice two-month Dope Break. I was going to wait until the end of the month to re-up so I could submit my 2007 Death Pool picks, but there are a few threads that are driving me nuts. Take this one. so we see the footage of Charlie getting opened again. So the hell what? That doesn’t mean she died that way again. It was part of freakin’ montage, underneath Mohinder’s VO. In the same segment, we also saw footage of Nathan flying up to rescue Peter in the alley, but I don’t read anyone wondering why Peter jumped off the building again. Charlie died of her brain aneurism, off-camera, IMO. The lesson for Hiro is that she was fated to die, and there was nothing he could have done to change that. [/QUOTE] So any one else that dies he can go back in time and save? Or will they all develop brain aneurisms too? Sylar killed her. Sylar now has her ability. I’ll bet you 2 virtual dope dollars on it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/171 "2006-12-01T19:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] Charlie died of her brain aneurism, off-camera, IMO. The lesson for Hiro is that she was fated to die, and there was nothing he could have done to change that. [/QUOTE] Nope, nope, nope. Ando is my proof, if nothing else. He was in position to observe whatever changes Hiro may have made. Unless Ando says Charlie was suddenly _un-murdered_, then she _was_ murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/172 "2006-12-01T20:11:16Z")
How about this: the moment Hiro disappeared anything that he changed would have happened instantly to those left behind. There was still a picture of Charlie with her head cut open in AED’s possesion. That picture would no longer exist. Some force would not let Hiro stop her from screwing with reality that much. He was snapped back to the original time, only he was in Japan instead. Charlie is dead, she lost her head. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/173 "2006-12-01T21:04:34Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] so we see the footage of Charlie getting opened again. So the hell what? That doesn’t mean she died that way again. It was part of freakin’ montage, underneath Mohinder’s VO. In the same segment, we also saw footage of Nathan flying up to rescue Peter in the alley, but I don’t read anyone wondering why Peter jumped off the building again. [/quote] Bzzzzzzt. Sorry, wrong. At the end of the ep under Mohimbo’s VO we have Sylar in the diner, Charlie with the blood running down her face, Claire telling her father she has something to tell him, Peter getting arrested at the high school, Eden and the Haitian taking down Sylar (and taking off his baseball cap so we see the actor’s face this time), Jessica taking a shot at DL and Hiro placing an origami crane at the little shrine for Charlie. > [@scotandrsn](#): > > Charlie died of her brain aneurism, off-camera, IMO. Nope. Sylar killed her. On another note, the promo doesn’t say that a Hero will “die.” It says that a Hero will be “lost.” Which, while I agree _probably_ means someone’s gonna die, could mean that someone who up until now has been a “good guy” may turn or be revealed as evil. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/174 "2006-12-01T21:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Bzzzzzzt. Sorry, wrong. At the end of the ep under Mohimbo’s VO we have Sylar in the diner, Charlie with the blood running down her face, Claire telling her father she has something to tell him, Peter getting arrested at the high school, Eden and the Haitian taking down Sylar (and taking off his baseball cap so we see the actor’s face this time), Jessica taking a shot at DL and Hiro placing an origami crane at the little shrine for Charlie. [/QUOTE] So by that logic, there are now 2 Sylars in this timeline? One in the diner killing Charlie and one at the HS getting busted by Eden & the Haitian? I think it’s still ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/175 "2006-12-01T21:48:05Z")
How about this; Future Hiro is stopping Hiro from making mistakes. We already know he would come back in order to make things happen; however, when the advice is “let so-and-so die” it probably wouldn’t go down so well with people. So he teleported Present Hiro back again to stop him doing something that actually would affect the timeline substantially. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/176 "2006-12-01T22:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] How about this; Future Hiro is stopping Hiro from making mistakes. We already know he would come back in order to make things happen; however, when the advice is “let so-and-so die” it probably wouldn’t go down so well with people. So he teleported Present Hiro back again to stop him doing something that actually would affect the timeline substantially. [/QUOTE] This is true. We don’t know how much more control over his powers or how much more powerful future Hiro is. ---
**Author:** ![Carnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carnick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/177 "2006-12-01T23:35:29Z")
Maybe Charlie didn’t remember getting the phrase book from Hiro because her brain thingy messed with her memory. She got amazing short term memory, but it nuked her long term memory. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/178 "2006-12-01T23:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] So by that logic, there are now 2 Sylars in this timeline? One in the diner killing Charlie and one at the HS getting busted by Eden & the Haitian? [/QUOTE] Um, no, there is one Sylar, who killed Charlie at the diner and who later attacked Jackie at the HS. Just like always. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/179 "2006-12-03T07:09:57Z")
I watched the end of this epi again. Here’s what I saw with Charlie- she’s staring (into a mirror). Blood starts running down her face, one drop donw one side of her head, another by her nose. It’s quite a bit, but less than having your skull cut off. No sign of Sylar or a skull opening. If it was supposed to show he dying (again) by Sylar, I have to say they either deliberately left it ambigous or did so by accident. Note that I am note claiming it’s a burst aneurism. Of course hollywood has strange ways of showing things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988/180 "2006-12-03T07:11:08Z")
Note that I am **not** claiming it’s a burst aneurism :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-11-27-six-months-ago-spoilers/381988.md?page=10)