# Heroes 12/15/08 "Duality" or maybe it's "Duel" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326 "2008-12-16T01:10:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/41 "2008-12-16T15:50:19Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > The writers are total bastards having Angela come out with lines like, “[Because you’re] someone I could manipulate, because that’s what I do.” Anyone would think they like causing arguments on the internet. Yeah, kinda cheesy, but if you think the guy’s a walking lie detector -stop lying! Or, hey, a thought-don’t talk. Or talk in riddles. What I thought was cute was the Sylar clocky sound effects stopped as soon as she confirmed she wasn’t his mom. Just silence in the background. **HMHW** , you psychic son of a gun, you! [Dual and Duality!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0526723/) Maybe I can watch Blackadder DVD’s until February. Learn from the master of snark.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/42 "2008-12-16T16:41:40Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Umm… great minds, think alike? 😉 Yes! And apparently us, too! 😉 [QUOTE=Annie] **HMHW** , you psychic son of a gun, you! [/QUOTE] Think it’s too late to apply for the Randi challenge? The recap was spot on as always, btw! ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/43 "2008-12-16T20:08:14Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > Syler: Wooo! I get the voiceover- I rock! > > \*Peter sits near his dead dad and feels up his gun. \* > “Hey, usually a bullet through the forehead puts a guy down, but gotta stay vigilant-you never know when these fuckers are going to come back to life. Hey Nathan.” > Nathan: Hey Pete. You do this? > Peter: Only after vacillating for 20 minutes, then Sylar caught the bullet and whipped the bullet in his face, thus relieving me of the ethical burden of patricide. So, you evil or what? > Nathan: We don’t do eeeevil on this show. Ambiguous morally grey evil, but not eeeeevil. Except dad. Pretty sure he was baby eating, dog boiling evil. I’m ‘do what has to be done for the greater good’ morally grey ambiguously evil. I am in no way a metaphor for the War on Terror, of course. Either you’re with me… > Peter: Like Sylar morally gray? > Nathan: He stopped being morally gray when he spliced his way through that Initech birthday last week. He’s back to baby eating dog boiling. > Peter: Damn, I was starting to like him. Or like Claire’s dad morally gray? > Nathan: Her adoptive dad who looks way more like her, or me? Now join me, and we can rule the galaxy together as father and….little brother. > Peter: I’ll never join you! Never!!! > Nathan: Hey mister high and mighty, I wasn’t the one who fired a round at Dad. I’m not cutting your hand off, either. > Peter: Still evil. Gonna punch you till you spin. > President Worf: Next Gen represent! Sure Senator Appointed Five Weeks Ago, I’ll start a secret program to imprison the specials. I trust you. > Nathan: I absolutely can’t fly you know. > > \*Next Time on Heroes: Senator Nathan and President Worf imprison our specials in biohazard suits, Mo gets his cab back. \* Sigh. Your analysis is spot on, Annie but seeing this kind of nonsense on screen in what are my favourite characters, well, there are limits. The little bit of me that still loved the show actually found the above scenes really sad seeing how far they’ve all fallen. I think your reviews will become the sole way in which I experience the show from now on because they are at least hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/44 "2008-12-16T20:28:16Z")
You know… do Nathan’s actions with President Worf to set up next season make _any_ sense? I’d kinda gotten used to characters veering and careening wildly across the moral landscape this season… but he’s doing _exactly_ the opposite of what his epiphany in Haiti brought him to believe. In Haiti, he thought that the only way to change the world was to make superpowers available to lots of people. They could use their superpowers to leverage changes to the world’s injustices. Now, he wants to _lock up_ all the superpowers – no more leverage. So no change, only injustices. I didn’t know someone could reach that level of Petrelli Stupidity without the emo hairbang. tsk. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/45 "2008-12-16T21:02:51Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > You know… do Nathan’s actions with President Worf to set up next season make _any_ sense? I’d kinda gotten used to characters veering and careening wildly across the moral landscape this season… but he’s doing _exactly_ the opposite of what his epiphany in Haiti brought him to believe. > > In Haiti, he thought that the only way to change the world was to make superpowers available to lots of people. They could use their superpowers to leverage changes to the world’s injustices. > > Now, he wants to _lock up_ all the superpowers – no more leverage. So no change, only injustices. > > I didn’t know someone could reach that level of Petrelli Stupidity without the emo hairbang. tsk. Well, I think he’s only wanting to lock up the ones who he figures will oppose his plans, though I agree it’s not a very cunning plan to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/46 "2008-12-16T22:15:26Z")
That write up was great Annie just one tiny tiny change > [@Annie](#): > > Mohinder: Noooooo-not my vat of goooo! Mohinder Noooooo They Be Stealing Mah Bukit!!! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/47 "2008-12-17T01:44:56Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > You know… do Nathan’s actions with President Worf to set up next season make _any_ sense? I’d kinda gotten used to characters veering and careening wildly across the moral landscape this season… but he’s doing _exactly_ the opposite of what his epiphany in Haiti brought him to believe. > > In Haiti, he thought that the only way to change the world was to make superpowers available to lots of people. They could use their superpowers to leverage changes to the world’s injustices. > > Now, he wants to _lock up_ all the superpowers – no more leverage. So no change, only injustices. > > I didn’t know someone could reach that level of Petrelli Stupidity without the emo hairbang. tsk. I think his plan was to only let the RIGHT people have super powers. Now that the formula is gone, he just wants to lock them all up. Pretty similar to what Primatech was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/48 "2008-12-17T02:22:22Z")
> [@Waffle\_Decider](#): > > I don’t buy that Hiro could have possibly extricated himself from that flag pole. > > Daphne’s time travel also feels like a big stretch, even in this fictional world with super heroes. If running faster than the speed of light lets her go back in time, how does she fast forward back to the present? Not to mention that she’ll need to coordinate so that she will end up at the both the right place and the right time when she stops running. Well, it’s the former that’s impossible. I don’t care how speedy her little legs are, it’s a little hard to believe in someone cracking lightspeed on foot, especially since it’s impossible in the first place. However, if you could run at something _close_ to _c_, time dilation would take care of getting through a quick 16 years. Ando’s power makes sense for his character. He’s an intensely loyal friend, never really trying to grab glory for himself; and now he’s the perfect sidekick. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/49 "2008-12-17T02:30:46Z")
Anyone else feel Peter taking the formula makes him a total hypocrite? All he did was what Nathan was trying to do in the first place and what he was fighting so hard to stop, giving people powers so they could help their loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/50 "2008-12-17T02:43:25Z")
> [@Promethea](#): > > Sigh. Your analysis is spot on, Annie but seeing this kind of nonsense on screen in what are my favourite characters, well, there are limits. The little bit of me that still loved the show actually found the above scenes really sad seeing how far they’ve all fallen. Look, this show is like Peter- sweet, human, with a charming sense of wonder, occasionally does stupid shit without thinking it through, but when it picks up a gun and starts blasting bad guys, it kicks ass! Besides, if the characters didn’t do stupid crap, there’d be no drama. Just superheroes effectively solving problems and squishing evil on the first goaround. Where’s the fun in that? > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I think his plan was to only let the RIGHT people have super powers. Now that the formula is gone, he just wants to lock them all up. Pretty similar to what Primatech was doing. Yup. Random chance was producing Sylars instead of upstanding deserving chaps like…himself. And there’s got to be some jealousy of the natural born supers (although Tracey was in his dossier, and she came from a kit too). He seems to be lashing out at something he doesn’t emotionally understand. His divine gift theory got kicked out from under him when he found out his parents injected him, he can’t control it via the formula anymore. He got all burned to hell because of Ted’s nuke ability, he knows there are dangers to some of these abilities. I also suspect the writers may be working towards a variation of the _Five Years Gone_ world- you can change some of the details, but the future is pretty much going to play out the same way no matter what you do to change it. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Anyone else feel Peter taking the formula makes him a total hypocrite? All he did was what Nathan was trying to do in the first place and what he was fighting so hard to stop, giving people powers so they could help their loved ones. Of course- abilities should only go to upstanding, deserving chaps like…himself. But he probably thinks he’s just returning to normal, and he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/51 "2008-12-17T03:51:50Z")
1. So where on earth did the catalyst come from? I know it was in Hiro’s mother - was it something innate in her? 2. If they never had a formula to cause superpowers until just now, how’d they trigger them in Nathan (and Nicki/Not-nicki, and probably others)? 3. Are there no more episodes until next fall? or will they start up with new ones in January? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/52 "2008-12-17T04:14:24Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > 1. So where on earth did the catalyst come from? I know it was in Hiro’s mother - was it something innate in her? > > 2. If they never had a formula to cause superpowers until just now, how’d they trigger them in Nathan (and Nicki/Not-nicki, and probably others)? 1. I got the feeling that the catalyst has been in the Nakamura family for a long time. Hiro’s mom mentioned something about keeping it in the bloodline. I think it’s more than just a catalyst, as they kept calling it “the light.” Of course, we may never know. 2. They’ve had the formula for quite some time, but they locked it away because it was just too powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/53 "2008-12-17T04:32:47Z")
Random question - Why did Claire’s bio-mom have a gun? Can’t she shoot fire out of her hands? One nice touch, I thought - when fear-power guy just snapped that Marine’s neck. I had envisioned the entire rest of the episode: Nathan, Marine and NotNikki versus Peter, Fear Guy and Lighting Guy - Battle Royale! It was nice to see that for once they didn’t go according to prediction. (Sorry, just watched it tonight - most everything’s been covered, I see)… ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/54 "2008-12-17T04:48:17Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > 1. > 2. Are there no more episodes until next fall? or will they start up with new ones in January? February 2nd, actually. That’s when the “Fugitives” storyline starts. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/55 "2008-12-17T04:53:06Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Random question - > > Why did Claire’s bio-mom have a gun? Can’t she shoot fire out of her hands? Maybe fire is too unpredictable; she didn’t want to burn down the building if she could help it. > [@](#): > > One nice touch, I thought - when fear-power guy just snapped that Marine’s neck. I had envisioned the entire rest of the episode: Nathan, Marine and NotNikki versus Peter, Fear Guy and Lighting Guy - Battle Royale! > > It was nice to see that for once they didn’t go according to prediction. I was very happy that the marine and Knox both got iced (literally, in Knox’s case). I REALLY didn’t want to watch super-soldier Marine do anything except die or go away. Knox was OK as a villain but how many times can they use the “then why are you so SCARED?” bit? Worn out his welcome there. On the other hand, I already miss the Pupper Master guy. He was a good villain and the actor played him very well. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/56 "2008-12-17T05:10:17Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Random question - > > Why did Claire’s bio-mom have a gun? Can’t she shoot fire out of her hands? A bullet to the head can stop Sylar, but fire can’t do much to him. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/57 "2008-12-17T07:21:57Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > Besides, if the characters didn’t do stupid crap, there’d be no drama. Just superheroes effectively solving problems and squishing evil on the first goaround. Where’s the fun in that? _twitch_ ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/58 "2008-12-17T08:12:21Z")
Apparently Nathan got a case of the stupids from Peter. Why didn’t he think to fly _himself_ out of the fire? I’m also rather amused that we’ve now ended up at the future that Future!Peter shot Nathan to avert in the first place. He managed to detour the destiny through the scenic Everyone’s Super route, but not avert it… if that, as perhaps his meddling was what brought it about to begin with. I’m thinking that trying to change the past doesn’t work so well for anybody. 🙂 Ando’s power amused the hell out of me too. Super-powered backup. Forever the sidekick. It’s so pointedly cruel on the part of the writers that it’s delicious. Heheheh. For some reason I totally expect him to be in neon-colored spandex next time we see him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/59 "2008-12-17T10:56:33Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > Look, this show is like Peter- sweet, human, with a charming sense of wonder, occasionally does stupid shit without thinking it through, but when it picks up a gun and starts blasting bad guys, it kicks ass! Besides, if the characters didn’t do stupid crap, there’d be no drama. Just superheroes effectively solving problems and squishing evil on the first goaround. Where’s the fun in that? Annie, you’re a doll and I really appreciate the effort to persuade me to stay in the Heroes treehouse but I think retconning Nathan as Hitler who has always despised Peter was just the final straw.☹ I’ve long maintained some ironic distance to the show since its golden days but watching _Nathan_ work Peter over with a steel bar just made me feel ill. As said, I will read the reviews here with interest and if it looks like I’m pointlessly denying myself a treat especially if Bryan Fuller turns things around in season 4, I’ll come crawling back, pleading to be let back in again 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/60 "2008-12-17T13:03:14Z")
> [@Promethea](#): > > Annie, you’re a doll and I really appreciate the effort to persuade me to stay in the Heroes treehouse but I think retconning Nathan as Hitler who has always despised Peter was just the final straw.☹ I’ve long maintained some ironic distance to the show since its golden days but watching _Nathan_ work Peter over with a steel bar just made me feel ill. I agree. I’m not going to stop watching (even though this half-season was a hot mess) but the Nathan/Peter relationship was one of my favorite things about the show. I always wanted a brother like that. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326.md?page=4)