# Heroes 12/15/08 "Duality" or maybe it's "Duel" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326 "2008-12-16T01:10:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/101 "2008-12-19T07:41:09Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, it’s worse if you’re gay. They wipe your brain and disappear you. At least the black characters get powers and respectable deaths. Tim Kring cannot be trusted when it comes to the behind the scenes details on this show. Is it likely Zach was a gay character? Of course it was. But the more likely explanation for his disappearance is that the actor playing him got the chance at the lead role on The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Hmm, lead role or bit player as Claire’s homosexual life partner in a show that already has more than a dozen lead roles? That’s a tough one. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/102 "2008-12-19T18:11:53Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Ando was pretty excited about getting a power but I don’t think he had time to think “Hey wait, my power is to make other people more powerful? What the hell kind of lame ass power is that?” He went from being Hiro’s Sidekick to Hiro’s Super Sidekick :smack: ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/103 "2008-12-19T18:17:55Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > He went from being Hiro’s Sidekick to Hiro’s Super Sidekick :smack: I’m wondering what exactly would happen if Hiro got zapped. I mean, he can already freeze time and time travel; he can’t get much more powerful. Maybe Hiro’s powers are permanently gone now, and he can only use them when Ando “charges” him up. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/104 "2008-12-19T18:26:29Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Maybe Hiro’s powers are permanently gone now, and he can only use them when Ando “charges” him up. That would be interesting. I also wonder what happens if Ando boosts a normal human without powers. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/105 "2008-12-19T18:53:49Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m wondering what exactly would happen if Hiro got zapped. I mean, he can already freeze time and time travel; he can’t get much more powerful. > > Maybe Hiro’s powers are permanently gone now, and he can only use them when Ando “charges” him up. But doesn’t Hiro kill Ando in the future? He must get his powers back eventually. Future Hiro has traveled into the present without future Ando. I wonder if Ando can give people powers by zapping them. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/106 "2008-12-19T19:11:49Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > But doesn’t Hiro kill Ando in the future? He must get his powers back eventually. Future Hiro has traveled into the present without future Ando. I wonder if Ando can give people powers by zapping them. That’s a different future. And Hiro doesn’t kill Ando, Ando zaps him, which Hiro thought was an attack. Now we know it was Ando’s power giving ability. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/107 "2008-12-20T05:55:03Z")
A thought… with the advent of Petrelli camps, will Hiro move to becoming the soul patch ninja badass ‘terrorist’, liberating imprisoned specials? Will we see more ‘damn, that’s _cold!_’ stuff like burying the immortal guy alive? Probably not as scary as _5YG_ Hiro, since Ando didn’t die and break his heart. He’ll giggle and “Yatta!” when he knocks out prison guards and runs his sword through security system panels. Now, Ando and Daphne…the Beatrice and Benedick of Heroes. Those bickering kids have the best hetero chemistry on that show not including characters related to each other (Peter, she’s you niece!). It’s going to happen. Sorry Matt ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/108 "2008-12-20T07:10:43Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > A thought… with the advent of Petrelli camps, will Hiro move to becoming the soul patch ninja badass ‘terrorist’, liberating imprisoned specials? Will we see more ‘damn, that’s _cold!_’ stuff like burying the immortal guy alive? Probably not as scary as _5YG_ Hiro, since Ando didn’t die and break his heart. He’ll giggle and “Yatta!” when he knocks out prison guards and runs his sword through security system panels. > > Now, Ando and Daphne…the Beatrice and Benedick of Heroes. Those bickering kids have the best hetero chemistry on that show not including characters related to each other (Peter, she’s you niece!). It’s going to happen. Sorry Matt oh no, don’t say that. We don’t want the writers to hear and start a love triangle! I really hope Ando, Hiro, Daphne, and Matt become the Fantastic Four and fight against Nathan on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/109 "2008-12-20T15:19:37Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > He’s spirit-walking - his hero power is going to be _Deus Ex Machina Man._ But the experience will leave him pugnacious and energetic. He is… _the Bantam Stranger!_ ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/110 "2008-12-20T17:08:37Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > oh no, don’t say that. We don’t want the writers to hear and start a love triangle! I really hope Ando, Hiro, Daphne, and Matt become the Fantastic Four and fight against Nathan on their own. No stretchy \*Heroes \*yet. But this could be fun- Matt can wait until he’s got Nathan in front of a few hundred people or commando guys and say “For God’s sake Nathan- you flew me on your back from New York to Texas!” “I thought we agreed to never speak of that again, Matt. Cuff him” “Would you come with us, Senator…”:eek: I hope that in this chapter Sylar (oh, he is so not dead) gets the big army guys hunting for him-his existing victims aren’t much of a challenge for him; and Mohinder may just get his karma balanced on the human test subject front. He’s had two different formulas of special juice, that has to interest the shadowy government research community. “So, any residual effects from the formulae, Doctor?” “Nope, I’m totally normal now.But I did pick up some new skills- Hey, nice microscope”-THWACK!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/111 "2008-12-20T20:52:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I was less than happy to see Nathan pull such a fast 180, going from being willing to kill his brother and see his father murdered to further the need for super proliferation in one scene, to authoring a plan to lock all the supers up in the next. I don’t see why everybody sees this as a reversal. Nathan wants to lessen the gap between the haves and the have-nots. One way is to turn all of the have-nots into haves. When that plan falls apart, plan 2 is to turn the haves into have-nots. If you can’t do that, then you have to lock up all the haves. But, the overall goal of NOT having a small minority of superheroes running around, having god-like abilities over the regular majority, is unchanged. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/112 "2008-12-21T09:44:35Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s **Dual** , which is a nice middle. 🙂 or Duelity 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/113 "2008-12-21T10:11:39Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > I’m also rather amused that we’ve now ended up at the future that Future!Peter shot Nathan to avert in the first place. I don’t think so. Some elements are similar - like Ando’s power. But others are remarkably different - no more “everyone gets powers” and no more Nathan/Tracy romance. It also looks like Sylar has been derailed from his attempt to be good (and I think it’s likely that his future kid was a result of a romance with Elle, who is now deceased) ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/114 "2008-12-21T10:24:04Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Tim Kring cannot be trusted when it comes to the behind the scenes details on this show. Is it likely Zach was a gay character? Of course it was. But the more likely explanation for his disappearance is that the actor playing him got the chance at the lead role on The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Hmm, lead role or bit player as Claire’s homosexual life partner in a show that already has more than a dozen lead roles? That’s a tough one. Zach was written out of the show because he got the lead in a new series. But before he was written out, he was degay-ified because the actor’s handlers requested it, likely to boost his image in anticipation of the new role. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/115 "2008-12-21T10:52:04Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > So if the artificially induced abilities relate to what a person really, really wants…what would be YOUR super power? I cannot be harmed by anyone or anything… but that’s pretty much it. It’s passive, automatic, and reactive. Provided nothing is obviously trying to kill me, I’m an apparently normal person. In the context where this was originally described, it was unclear how long I’d been around or what I’d been up to, so I had a kind of batshit crazy, behind the scenes, meddling bored immortal thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/116 "2008-12-21T11:41:52Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I don’t think so. Some elements are similar - like Ando’s power. But others are remarkably different - no more “everyone gets powers” and no more Nathan/Tracy romance. It also looks like Sylar has been derailed from his attempt to be good (and I think it’s likely that his future kid was a result of a romance with Elle, who is now deceased) The future Peter was trying to avoid was not “everyone gets powers making the world somehow explode”, thats what happened after he started messing with things. The original future he was trying to change was “Nathan goes public and all supers are hunted and put in jail or killed”. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/117 "2008-12-21T12:45:24Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Zach was written out of the show because he got the lead in a new series. But before he was written out, he was degay-ified because the actor’s handlers requested it, likely to boost his image in anticipation of the new role. These are all theories that came straight from Tim Kring. The man has proven himself unreliable in relating information like this before so I don’t have any reason to believe his ravings related to Zach. Plus, for all the bleating over Zach’s gayness, he never actually said he was gay. If all the straightening of the character came from NBC (or the actor himself, as if he’d have that kind of pull), why did Kring and company dance around it for so long? And the smoking gun of Zach’s gayness (“his” MySpace page) was never claimed by NBC. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/118 "2008-12-21T18:19:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > The future Peter was trying to avoid was not “everyone gets powers making the world somehow explode”, thats what happened after he started messing with things. The original future he was trying to change was “Nathan goes public and all supers are hunted and put in jail or killed”. As opposed to future #2: formula developed, anyone can have powers, but born-specials are still hunted? Whereas now we get a variant the season 1 future of President Nathan rounding the specials up into camps. I’m going to need a 3-D chronology map to keep this straight. I subscribe to the Captain Janeway time travel philosophy, it just makes things easier: > [@](#): > > Time travel. I promised myself I’d never let myself get caught up in one of these God-forsaken paradoxes. The future’s the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache. My ability? I’d like teleportation, it would make travel so much cheaper and I could commute to work from the Andaman Isl. I’d probably get the ability to make other people walk on the correct side of the sidewalk, though:confused: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/119 "2008-12-21T18:28:49Z")
It only just occurred to Ando he _needs_ to time travel, but his more deep-seated subconscious leaning was towards side-kick and helping, so that’s the power he got. Speed Girl always wanted to run and it was ingrained in her subconscious, so she got that power. I imagine if you don’t have an ingrained subconscious desire for a particular ability, the power fits your immediate aptitudes, if you have some, or it goes random. I frequently dream of flying or telekinesis, so I imagine I’d get one of those. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326/120 "2008-12-22T02:22:57Z")
Well, crud. I’m getting water-breathing, then. Just about every dream I have, ends up underwater. As to our imperfect futures… you know, I wouldn’t be opposed to having next season return to the Future Of Everyone In Camps Just Like That X-Men Storyline. Yeah, it’s ground we’ve been over before, and it’s derivative… but it _really_ annoys me that Peter left Irish Lassy in the future and never once revisited that. A storyline with that future could work her back in, somehow. Even better if she shows up as a villain for Peter having left her there. Of course, knowing the writing on this show, even if they _do_ go that route it’ll be an unmitigated mess. _sigh_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-15-08-duality-or-maybe-its-duel-spoilers/477326.md?page=7)