# Heroes 12/8/08 "Our Father" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336 "2008-12-09T01:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/101 "2008-12-11T22:53:58Z")
I’ve heard that John Glover will be showing up as Sylar’s real daddy. He’s always interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/102 "2008-12-12T02:43:01Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Not sure how time travel is supposed to work in the Heroes universe; classic sci-fi time travel rules would have prevented Claire from being able to change her own diaper, for example. Who knows what the deal is with Hiro? I know, I always think ‘how can a single object exist as two separate masses in the same space, and isn’t sanitizing your own infant ass the temporal equivalent of crossing the streams??’ Then I think something like… > [@dotchan](#): > > To paraphrase a quote from Doctor Who, it’s all one huge timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly…thingy. And that’s how a Time Lord understands it! What hope is there for the rest of us??😃 > [@Atrael](#): > > What I always find amusing is that Hiro always boasts that he is “The master of space and time” when in fact it seems like everyone else can use his power a lot better than he can. Hey, he has great targeting skills (except for missing his apartment in Japan by about 360 years). He just screws up once he gets there if he tries to do anything more active than hide behind a lab door and spy on people. > [@Baldwin](#): > > I’ve heard that John Glover will be showing up as Sylar’s real daddy. He’s always interesting. Oh, like _that’s_ going to be a straightforward paternity issue. If splice-boy has a lick of sense he should grab anyone who purports to be his parent and drag them straightaway to the Mo-lab for immediate DNA testing. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/103 "2008-12-12T05:06:47Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I’ve heard that John Glover will be showing up as Sylar’s real daddy. He’s always interesting. But Crispen Glover would be even more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/104 "2008-12-12T05:45:33Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > A TV show about people gaining super powers to fly around, shoot blasts of energy and change time needs a _hard_ science fiction writer on staff like a fish needs a bicycle. The entire premise of the show is impossible under hard science fiction. I disagree. The point of hard science fiction is sometimes to show what the world would be like if ONE impossible thing were possible. For that to work, it has to work against a universe of well known behavior. Faster than Light travel is, as far as we can tell, as impossible as superpowers, but hard SF has no trouble breaking that little rule. You have to establish the rules then follow them. The same is true for fantasy. Good fantasy is set against a known universe of pretty much known limitations. The problem with Heroes is the same problem that plagued Star Trek in its final years - the universe keeps changing just to fit the plot line. Lazy writers learn to write themselves out of corners by reversing the polarity on the subspace thingamajig, thus opening a subspace rift which will envelop and eat the bad guy, just as all hope seems lost. After a while, you stop caring about anything, because if anything can happen, nothing matters. Heroes is just like that. A hero is dead? Oh, don’t worry, we’re just a timeline change away from undoing all that. Just foolin’. Claire could get eaten and swallowed by a pack of hyenas, and I wouldn’t care because next week it will turn out it was all a dream. Or a thousand regenerated Claires will _Alien_ their way out of the stomachs of the Hyenas, and suddenly a mysterious new force will kill off all of them except for one, and we’ll be back to having Claire around again. I deleted the show from my PVR yesterday. Too much other good stuff out there to waste more time with this. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/105 "2008-12-12T06:05:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Claire could get eaten and swallowed by a pack of hyenas…a thousand regenerated Claires will _Alien_ their way out of the stomachs of the Hyenas That would rock SO MUCH. I would definitely watch a show where a hot teenager gets eaten by hyenas and then a thousand regenerated hot teenagers burst out of the hyenas. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/106 "2008-12-12T06:06:36Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I’ve heard that John Glover will be showing up as Sylar’s real daddy. He’s always interesting. I’m actually kind of surprised that they don’t somehow make Sylar end up being his own dad. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/107 "2008-12-12T07:58:02Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I’ve heard that John Glover will be showing up as Sylar’s real daddy. He’s always interesting. Dude! If that’s for real, it’s a spoiler ☹ … I guess that will be kind of cool, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/108 "2008-12-12T15:18:49Z")
I’d just like to point out that I freakin’ loved seeing future Hiro and future Peter _using_ their powers. I can see how the writers wanted to keep them from becoming unstoppable, and now it’s just the bad guys (well, Sylar, assuming Arthur’s dead) who get to have all the powers. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/109 "2008-12-12T15:32:47Z")
> [@Promethea](#): > > Dude! If that’s for real, it’s a spoiler ☹ > > … I guess that will be kind of cool, though. The permutations of the concept of ‘father’ on this show can render any number of possibilities. Bio, adoptive, unknowing not-bio, this timeline, evil scarface Peter timeline, dork-Peter nuclear California timeline… ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/110 "2008-12-12T16:55:54Z")
I loved John Glover in Smallville and if he shows up in Heroes I think it would be a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/111 "2008-12-12T22:20:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I disagree. The point of hard science fiction is sometimes to show what the world would be like if ONE impossible thing were possible. And if it’s only one, then, as I said, it’s completely incompatible with the premise of the show. Something isn’t really in the superhero genre until it has impossible things happening left and right. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I deleted the show from my PVR yesterday. Like I care. Though I do have to admit that this season was getting so bad that our family was close to giving up. This episode was the best one of the season, easily, and since it seems the problems before was with lazy producers and incompetent writers who have since been replaced, I look forward to the rest of the reason more optimistically. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/112 "2008-12-14T17:48:17Z")
Man, since when did _Timecop_ become the bearer of the “classic sci-fi rules”? I know Van Damme’s split on the kitchen counter was impressive, but not that impressive. But **Lightray** , I think you’re being a little hard on Heroes fans (as you always are). It’s not that we’re bitching about how the time travel works (although some do), it’s that we’re bitching that the storytelling during the time travel plots is done in a lame way. There’s a difference. Also, I’m thrilled that Peter and Hiro are depowered. That needed to happen. But in my mind, this episode set the series completely back on track and Sylar’s blood covered “Cake?” was classic. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/113 "2008-12-14T19:50:49Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But in my mind, this episode set the series completely back on track and Sylar’s blood covered “Cake?” was classic. I dunno, that seemed a little too jokey for me-serial killing is serious shit, man! Where’s Agent Hansen in all this, hmmm? Oh yeah, a brief appearance at the bank hostage taking this year but that’s it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/114 "2008-12-14T20:06:15Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Man, since when did _Timecop_ become the bearer of the “classic sci-fi rules”? I know Van Damme’s split on the kitchen counter was impressive, but not that impressive. Oh, I wasn’t even thinking of _Timecop_; and maybe I’m mixing various stories with some of the speculative ideas about time travel in general. For example, in Bradbury’s “A Sound of Thunder,” the Butterfly Effect of tampering with anything in the past is the main point of the story; in **Back to the Future Part 2** , Marty McFly has this dialogue with the Doc: **Doc:** They’re taking her home, to your future home! We’ll arrive shortly thereafter, get her out of there and go back to 1985. **Marty McFly:** You mean, I’m gonna see where I live? I’m gonna see myself as an old man? **Doc:** No, no, no Marty, that could result in a- [gasps] **Doc:** Great Scott! Jennifer could conceivably encounter her future self! The consequences of that could be disastrous! **Marty McFly:** Doc, what do you mean? **Doc:** I foresee two possibilities. One, coming face to face with herself 30 years older would put her into shock and she’d simply pass out. Or two, the encounter could create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that’s a worse case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy. **Marty McFly:** Well, that’s a relief. And so forth and so on. Maybe not “classic sci-fi” but it seems to be a popular notion that having future and past selves meet is kinda like crossing the streams, as someone else said. Now, obviously _Heroes_ doesn’t follow that formula, as past and future Peter and Hiro have already interacted with each other. It just didn’t really hit me until Claire changed her own diaper. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/115 "2008-12-14T20:38:23Z")
About _Heroes’_ time travel situation: Just read an excerpt from TV Guide which includes: “We will not see much of the future Heroes and Kring says time-travel has become a “crutch” so it will be avoided.” So I guess that solves that. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/116 "2008-12-14T20:42:10Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > About _Heroes’_ time travel situation: > > Just read an excerpt from TV Guide which includes: “We will not see much of the future Heroes and Kring says time-travel has become a “crutch” so it will be avoided.” > > So I guess that solves that. Tim Kring has said things like that before. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336/117 "2008-12-14T21:48:37Z")
Time travel has its narrative uses; _Five Years Gone_ was great, in that they used it to establish what they were fighting to avoid if someone exploded Manhattan; and to define and elaborate characterization. It was _not_ a DexM way out of plot problems. They don’t need to actually have characters boing around the timeline to do it; _Company Man_ and _Four Months Ago_ were flashbacks, _Six Months Ago_ was for the not-Hiro portions. The Petrelli-Dynasty ep this season was Hiro getting high and having a vision, as was Matt’s chunk of the nuke-California ep. The ramifications of that on Matt and Daphne’s relationship (are they only together because it’s ‘suppose’ to happen and oh yeah, maybe avoiding her would be a good way of her not eventually dying in your arms,instead of stalking her into that future, ya big goof…excuse me, I digress) deserves some attention. The " I have to go to the past/future to do/stop something" is the story trap to avoid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroes-12-8-08-our-father-spoilers/476336.md?page=5)