# Heroic tv show characters who have committed cold-blooded murder (spoilers inevitable) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881 "2009-09-28T19:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/61 "2009-09-29T16:21:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Not a TV episode (yet), but a book. In one of the Hercule Poirot stories, Poirot himself murders someone who is himself a multiple murderer, but cannot be convicted. I won’t identify the book. I dare say [David Suchet](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094525/)will film it eventually. They are intending to film all of the Poirot stories. If you won’t give it away, I will: It was “Curtain.” Elderly Poirot kills a Iago-like villain, who never committed a single crime himself, but who has manipulated numerous people into committing murder. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/62 "2009-09-30T15:09:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Nah, it’s canon I guess. But this means that the First (S7 badguy for those not Wise In The Ways Of Buffy) _can_ impersonate living people, which wasn’t the case back in S7. Explained in the letter column two ways. [spoiler] Out of story explanation: Joss forgot that the First impersonated Warren, and no one else caught it before publication. In story explanation/Joss-wank: Warren was dead for a split second before Amy’s magick saved him.[/spoiler] There were some Trek examples, but what about DS9? Sisko was a self-admitted “accessory to murder” in “In the Pale Moonlight” and Kira admitted to assassinating a Bajoran collaborator in “Necessary Evil.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/63 "2009-09-30T15:32:40Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > You could very easily argue that Kirk murders Edith in “The City on the Edge of Forever.” Sure, it’s the classic question of “is letting somebody die murder?” but Kirk took an active step to make sure she was allowed to die. Sure, it was the right move, but, hey. The OP didn’t say it had to be WRONG. Sure I did. I wrote it had to be **murder** –a killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Kirk bore Edith no malice, and he did nothing to initiate the chain of events that led to her death. Stopping McCoy from saving her is not causing her death. Pushing her in front of the car himself would have been. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/64 "2009-09-30T15:38:42Z")
It’s been a while since I’ve seen _The Shield_, but I’m sure Vic Mackey or his partners had to have killed somebody in cold blood! ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/65 "2009-09-30T16:04:50Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > It’s been a while since I’ve seen _The Shield_, but I’m sure Vic Mackey or his partners had to have killed somebody in cold blood! I would argue that Vic Mackey’s crew aren’t exactly heroes. Antiheroes, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/66 "2009-09-30T16:05:45Z")
Han Solo shot first. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/67 "2009-09-30T16:25:14Z")
Apparently, George Lucas [agrees with that now](http://9.media.tumblr.com/N3rhgmilR9mw4eyday42Ppwr_500.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/68 "2009-09-30T16:46:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m surprised that Willow (of _Buffy_ fame) has yet to be mentioned. Her killing of Warren at the end of S6 wasn’t “in the heat of battle” and was done with plenty of malice and aforethought. True, but she wasn’t really heroic at that point. What with the whole trying to destroy the world thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/69 "2009-09-30T19:01:35Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Anyway, I nominate Bill from True Blood. Not for all the people he must have eaten over the years, but for Sookie’s uncle. That was murder, no two ways about it. Wait, Sookie has an uncle? _That’s_ a departure from the books. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/70 "2009-09-30T20:17:00Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Apparently, George Lucas [agrees with that now](http://9.media.tumblr.com/N3rhgmilR9mw4eyday42Ppwr_500.jpg). That photo just made me hate Lucas a little bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/71 "2009-09-30T20:23:49Z")
Police Chief Wiggum once shot the captain of the basketball team, although I am not sure he killed him. Also, it was a Halloween episode so that probably doesn’t count. Plus the guy was turning into a monster, according to Wiggum’s testimony. Still, not a nice thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/72 "2009-09-30T21:16:44Z")
Well, Buffy also killed Ted (John Ritter). Of course, he turned out to be a robot, but she didn’t know that at the time and certainly reacted as if she’d killed him. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/73 "2009-09-30T21:17:03Z")
**Lakai** said: > [@](#): > > Micheal Westen from **Burn Notice**. Westen did kill the agent guy at the end of the last season. That was murder, though the guy had set up Fiona and pretty much made Mike choose between them. Not exactly cold-blooded murder. He also set up a few people to be killed by others. For one, he faked a mob agent talking to the FBI and turned the evidence over to the Mod lawyer, in order to keep that mob guy from murdering a teen girl and her mother. But he didn’t pull the trigger, the mob guy just had the poor sense to work for the mob. **JohnT** said: > [@](#): > > I’m surprised that Willow (of _Buffy_ fame) has yet to be mentioned. Her killing of Warren at the end of S6 wasn’t “in the heat of battle” and was done with plenty of malice and aforethought. That was Evil Willow. She was insane at the time, trying to destroy the world, so I don’t think that counts as a heroic character. > [@](#): > > Then there’s, oh, what’s his name… you know: Tucker’s brother. Yeah, Andrew did get off pretty light, but he wasn’t heroic, either. He was the panzy ass of the Three villians. **Der Trihs** said: > [@](#): > > Captain Janeway of _Voyager_. She killed the character Tuvix who was created by the merger of Neelix and Tuvok in a transporter accident by having him separated into his components. Doesn’t count - she restored the natural order of things with Neelix and Tuvok separate. That was a medical procedure. **Skald the Rhymer** said: > [@](#): > > Of course, given that said girlfriend was an irritating skank whom Rosenberg became involved with only on the rebound and who was not worthy to lick the dirt off Tara’s spats, his uninterest may be forgiven. Oh please. The only thing wrong with Kennedy was that Tara was dead. It’s not like Willow was cheating on her. **Aspidistra** said RE: _Babylon 5_: [spoiler] > [@](#): > > Vir’s killing of Caligul…I mean Cartagia is not exactly cold-blooded, but certainly deliberate. Not just murder, but treason too. I would consider that an act of heroism, even if it was technically treason. I mean, he killed the Emperor, so it’s treason, but the Emperor was batfuck insane and destroying the [del]country[/del] er, political entity of the people, so Vir’s act was one of patriotism and honor. > [@](#): > > Londo has Morden killed - legally not murder 'cos hey, he’s the Emperor he can do what he likes, but morally very cold-blooded. But Londo was never a hero - he was always something morally gray. And again, Morden was an agent of the Shadows, and was corrupting and enslaving the Centauri. An act of protecting his world and subjects. > [@](#): > > G’Kar is involved with the lynching of Lord Refa in the end of “And the Rock Cried Out” … I don’t remember if he actually stayed for the kill though. Maybe counts. G’Kar started as a weasely politician living off the largess of his position, but morphed into a strong heroic leader for his people. At the time of this he was a good guy. True, Lord Reefa wasn’t acting in G’Kar’s opinion of the best interests of his people, but that was a bit deliberate in revealing him to the people and then letting them deal with Reefa. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/74 "2009-09-30T21:30:24Z")
The Doctor & Donna wiped out tens of thousands of Pompeiians, just to save the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/75 "2009-09-30T21:37:19Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Nobody’s done B5 yet, have they? > > Vir’s killing of Caligul…I mean Cartagia is not exactly cold-blooded, but certainly deliberate. Not just murder, but treason too. > > Londo has Morden killed - legally not murder 'cos hey, he’s the Emperor he can do what he likes, but morally very cold-blooded. > > G’Kar is involved with the lynching of Lord Refa in the end of “And the Rock Cried Out” … I don’t remember if he actually stayed for the kill though I wouldn’t count G’Kar killing Refa. That was essentially a war time situation. However, _Londo_ killing Refa, by handing him over to the Narns and bribing Refa’s guards to stand aside, definitely counts. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/76 "2009-09-30T22:43:11Z")
Okay, so way back when Linda Hamilton left the NY City set TV series _Beauty and the Beast_, her character, Catherine Chandler (the beauty), had become pregnant via Vincent (the beast). An evil mobster, Gabriel, kidnapped her because he wanted the baby. Vincent was too late to save her. She gave birth and died in Vincent’s arms and the mobster flew off in a helicopter with the baby. In the following season, they introduced a new “beauty”, Jo Anderson, playing Diana. Diana was a profiler who worked with police and who may or may not have had a little psychic twinkle that helped her out. The series was canceled before her character really got fleshed out, but she was portrayed as rather empathic, kind of haunted by the gruesome cases she worked on, very earthy and compassionate, and quite stoic. She was assigned to help track down Chatherine Chandler’s killer and manages to find Vincent, but despite finding an injured “beast” cares for him because she knows he’s really a good soul. She and Vincent break into Gabriel’s mansion, Vincent gets his son back and spirits him away. He leaves Diana holding Gabriel at gunpoint as police sirens are approaching. Gabriel knows he is going to be arrested for Chandler’s murder, but scoffs. He is so rich and powerful, the charges will never stick yadda, yadda, yadda. He finishes his evil bad guy speech with: “I’ll win. I always win.” Diana says quietly: “This was Catherine Chandler’s gun” and shoots him dead. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/77 "2009-10-01T00:16:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Nah, it’s canon I guess. But this means that the First (S7 badguy for those not Wise In The Ways Of Buffy) _can_ impersonate living people, which wasn’t the case back in S7. Or that it was a Buffy-S1 type thing, where his heart stopped briefly so that it counts as a “death” for mystical purposes. I think that’s how the letters pages explained it. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/78 "2009-10-01T00:32:47Z")
Missed edit window, sorry for the double post > [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > Wait, Sookie has an uncle? _That’s_ a departure from the books. Technically, it’s her Grandmother’s brother (I think) so he’d be her Great Uncle. Not that he was very great. He’s a fairly minor part of the story, so it might not be a huge departure, I can’t really say though since I never read the books. When she was a child, she read his mind, and he was thinking dirty thoughts about her. He had to leave town after this came out, and he only came back for the Grandmother’s funeral. Sookie gets freaked out about seeing him there, and explains why to Bill, who later tracks him down where he’s living now and kills him. Later Sookie inherits some money from him, but she doesn’t want it and gives the money to Jason. That’s pretty much his entire story. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/79 "2009-10-01T02:26:45Z")
Kate and Sawyer on Lost? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881/80 "2009-10-01T02:55:14Z")
**Mrs. Cake** said: > [@](#): > > The Doctor & Donna wiped out tens of thousands of Pompeiians, just to save the rest of the world. Is letting happen the same as causing? And it was getting history to play out like it was supposed to. **Miller** said regarding B5: [spoiler] > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t count G’Kar killing Refa. That was essentially a war time situation. However, _Londo_ killing Refa, by handing him over to the Narns and bribing Refa’s guards to stand aside, definitely counts. As I said, Londo was never played as a hero. At best, there were things he did for his people, but he was always morally gray. [/spoiler] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroic-tv-show-characters-who-have-committed-cold-blooded-murder-spoilers-inevitable/511881.md?page=5)