# Heroin addicts... do some of them lead "normal" lives? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601 "2017-03-20T11:00:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/41 "2017-03-21T10:51:06Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > Just. Say. No. Nancy Reagan died in 1989. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/42 "2017-03-21T10:58:44Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > Just look at their dilated pupils. Wouldn’t it be the opposite for opiates? Constricted pupils? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/43 "2017-03-21T11:55:15Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > I believe in moral absolutism, not relativism. We should not try to rationalize immoral and illegal behavior, such as the use of heroin. It’s not normal, it’ll put you on the path to violent mood swings and even murderous desires. We’ve seen people murdered, particularly in Chicago, over disagreements between heroin deals. > > This is not behavior to be scrubbed under the rug. They don’t lead normal lives. I’ll bet you loved Reefer Madness, but moving past that, let’s keep in mind, I’m quite sure, there’s plenty of things you do that aren’t 100% exactly perfect and by you’re own definition, the next time you’re roll through a stop sign or take that second Vicodin 3.5 hours later instead of 4, just remember what you said here. And who decides what’s moral, you? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/44 "2017-03-21T11:58:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Nancy Reagan died in 1989. Oddly enough, the autopsy report said she had likely been a light user of both cocaine and marijuana for most of her adult life. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/45 "2017-03-21T13:34:43Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Read this, evaluate your position. > > And who knows? You might learn to capitalize letters while you’re at it. > > [Chasing the Scream - Google Search](https://g.co/kgs/mrMp5Q) i’m always happy to learn new information and reevaluate my position, but i’m unclear as to what you think needs evaluating. i grew up around addicts; my mother was a substance abuse counselor for 30 yrs. i worked in a methadone clinic as a teenager. while i just learned of mr hari in this thread (see the post 6 above yours) i’ve been a long time opponent of the war on drugs and have long thought that the better solution was the one portugal adopted. my position is that addicts are the same as you and i, that they are from all walks of life, in all types of jobs, that each has their own personal road to addiction; there is no one story. that theyre only criminals because we’ve decided to treat them that way. and that society is not threatened by admitting that we have a societal problem and not a legal or moral one. and i’m too lazy to hit the shift key! mc ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/46 "2017-03-21T13:36:38Z")
Slight hijack, but IIRC this was actually a plot point in a Batman story; our hero stops to note that plenty of folks can’t hold down a nine-to-five job during the week and only ever shoot up on the weekends, but it (a) has been known to happen and it (b) would explain pretty much everything about the woman in question. This winds up being the key to finding a kidnapper’s victim before it’s too late. At the time, it struck me as odd for a writer to build a comic around that factoid. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/47 "2017-03-21T13:47:54Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Oddly enough, the autopsy report said she had likely been a light user of both cocaine and marijuana for most of her adult life. Can you explain how such is determined? Do you have a cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/48 "2017-03-21T14:17:22Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Carfentanil is a veterinary sedative that is something like 100 times more potent than fentanyl, and is dosed in microgram amounts in large animals only. A colleague on another website said that she interned at one of several pharmacies (she said the exact number varies but could be counted on one hand) in the U.S. that is licensed to sell it, and the amount of paperwork required to obtain it is enormous, as are the security measures for its storage. I had only previously heard of it over 20 years ago when I was in school; it, and several other veterinary drugs, were mentioned in our law class just so we would know they existed. Isn’t that the drug that comes packaged with the antagonist because you need to get it immediately if you accidentally get injected with it? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/49 "2017-03-21T14:29:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Can you explain how such is determined? > > Do you have a cite for this? 'twas a joke. I’m pretty sure Kayaker also doesn’t have a cite for her dying in 1989. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/50 "2017-03-21T14:51:53Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > 'twas a joke. I’m pretty sure Kayaker also doesn’t have a cite for her dying in 1989. Well, she didn’t spend much time in the public eye after 89. (yeah, I fucked up) ---
**Author:** ![CosmicManiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CosmicManiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CosmicManiac)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/51 "2017-03-21T18:49:33Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’ll bet you loved Reefer Madness, but moving past that, let’s keep in mind, I’m quite sure, there’s plenty of things you do that aren’t 100% exactly perfect and by you’re own definition, the next time you’re roll through a stop sign or take that second Vicodin 3.5 hours later instead of 4, just remember what you said here. > > And who decides what’s moral, you? No, I don’t, and never have loved marijuana. Also, I just looked up what Vicodin is, and there are two uses for it: one as a illegal narcotic drug and painkiller, the other as a legal prescription medication. If the Vicodin the driver in your hypothetical is taking is perfectly, validly licensed by a medical doctor because of the driver’s medical needs, there is nothing morally or legally wrong with him taking it, provided he doesn’t overdose on it when driving, or exceed the limit of Vicodin allowed in his system when driving. Societal standards and the law decide what is moral. We are a nation of laws for a good reason; we are also a civilized society. Murder and the sale and manufacturing of illegal drugs is never, _ever_ justified, no matter how bad of a sob story the person might try to cook up. There are a lot of people who are down on the luck and not doing well financially who don’t use heroin illegally to get by. As such, I don’t see why some preppy, rich heroin addict should be held to a different standard than the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/52 "2017-03-21T19:43:19Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > No, I don’t, and never have loved marijuana. > > Also, I just looked up what Vicodin is, and there are two uses for it: one as a illegal narcotic drug and painkiller, the other as a legal prescription medication. If the Vicodin the driver in your hypothetical is taking is perfectly, validly licensed by a medical doctor because of the driver’s medical needs, there is nothing morally or legally wrong with him taking it, provided he doesn’t overdose on it when driving, or exceed the limit of Vicodin allowed in his system when driving. > > Societal standards and the law decide what is moral. We are a nation of laws for a good reason; we are also a civilized society. Murder and the sale and manufacturing of illegal drugs is never, _ever_ justified, no matter how bad of a sob story the person might try to cook up. There are a lot of people who are down on the luck and not doing well financially who don’t use heroin illegally to get by. > > As such, I don’t see why some preppy, rich heroin addict should be held to a different standard than the rest of us. You put my two hypotheticals together. I was suggesting that perhaps moral absolutism isn’t always the correct path. IOW, by your standards, someone shoving $80 worth of smack into their arm each day is no different than someone taking an extra Vicodin. Both illegal, therefore it’s not normal, we shouldn’t rationalize it and it’ll lead to violent mood swings and murder. This was basically what Reefer Madness was about. All black and white, no middle ground, As for the stop sign thing, again that was just a play on your moral absolutism thing. Next time you roll through a stop sign, just remember what you said here. It’s illegal and you shouldn’t rationalize it, you should be punished for it. But, then trying to talk about drugs, drug laws and more importantly, how people act while under the influence of drugs isn’t really possible with someone that’s never heard of Vicodin (unless you simply know it by a different name). It’s like talking about rolling through a stop sign with someone that’s never been in a car before. Sure, you can discuss the facts and data, but until you’ve been behind the wheel, in traffic, it’s hard to tell someone why a driver might not come to a complete stop every single time. TLDR, I’m sure you break the law, and rationalize it, too. We all do. ---
**Author:** ![CosmicManiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CosmicManiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CosmicManiac)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/53 "2017-03-21T20:09:37Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > You put my two hypotheticals together. I was suggesting that perhaps moral absolutism isn’t always the correct path. IOW, by your standards, someone shoving $80 worth of smack into their arm each day is no different than someone taking an extra Vicodin. Both illegal, therefore it’s not normal, we shouldn’t rationalize it and it’ll lead to violent mood swings and murder. This was basically what Reefer Madness was about. All black and white, no middle ground, > > As for the stop sign thing, again that was just a play on your moral absolutism thing. Next time you roll through a stop sign, just remember what you said here. It’s illegal and you shouldn’t rationalize it, you should be punished for it. > But, then trying to talk about drugs, drug laws and more importantly, how people act while under the influence of drugs isn’t really possible with someone that’s never heard of Vicodin (unless you simply know it by a different name). It’s like talking about rolling through a stop sign with someone that’s never been in a car before. Sure, you can discuss the facts and data, but until you’ve been behind the wheel, in traffic, it’s hard to tell someone why a driver might not come to a complete stop every single time. > TLDR, I’m sure you break the law, and rationalize it, too. We all do. Alright. I understand where you’re coming from. But I do believe that while some crimes are more heinous than others, they are all similar in the fact that they are illegal and not excusable. We shouldn’t pretend that someone who shoves heroin poison into their arm each day, $80 worth, is someone better than the lowlife who stands on a street corner selling those drugs to impressionable schoolkids. The person who buys the $80 worth of drugs is profiting from that lowlife’s nefarious enterprise, and as such should be considered a part of the problem. Obviously, running a stop sign is different from illegally selling and using drugs, although I’ve prided myself on never running one, although I got really close one time when the light was on yellow. The fact of the matter is that it doesn’t make running a stop sign right. If I gave the impression with my moral absolutism policy that heroin addicts should be treated without compassion and shouldn’t try to be helped by others, that was not my impression. However, they should not be coddled either; tough love can work wonders with troubled family members. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/54 "2017-03-21T20:45:45Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > Alright. I understand where you’re coming from. > > But I do believe that while some crimes are more heinous than others, they are all similar in the fact that they are illegal and not excusable. We shouldn’t pretend that someone who shoves heroin poison into their arm each day, $80 worth, is someone better than the lowlife who stands on a street corner selling those drugs to impressionable schoolkids. The person who buys the $80 worth of drugs is profiting from that lowlife’s nefarious enterprise, and as such should be considered a part of the problem. > > Obviously, running a stop sign is different from illegally selling and using drugs, although I’ve prided myself on never running one, although I got really close one time when the light was on yellow. The fact of the matter is that it doesn’t make running a stop sign right. > > If I gave the impression with my moral absolutism policy that heroin addicts should be treated without compassion and shouldn’t try to be helped by others, that was not my impression. However, they should not be coddled either; tough love can work wonders with troubled family members. So you don’t believe a law can be unjust or immoral? ---
**Author:** ![CosmicManiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CosmicManiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CosmicManiac)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/55 "2017-03-21T20:56:16Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > So you don’t believe a law can be unjust or immoral? If you believe a law is unjust, immoral or excessive, that’s what we have elected officials for in our nation. You can mount a campaign to your state legislator as an effort to get it changed. ---
**Author:** ![SpeedwayRyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@SpeedwayRyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpeedwayRyan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/56 "2017-03-21T21:39:29Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Wouldn’t it be the opposite for opiates? Constricted pupils? Yep! Gotta love it when someone is being a know-it-all and what they say isn’t just imprecise, it’s the complete and total opposite of correct. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/57 "2017-03-21T21:50:53Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Wouldn’t it be the opposite for opiates? Constricted pupils? Yep. I mean— uh, I don’t know. Why would I know? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/58 "2017-03-21T21:55:15Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > If you believe a law is unjust, immoral or excessive, that’s what we have elected officials for in our nation. You can mount a campaign to your state legislator as an effort to get it changed. That’s not what I asked you. Do you believe a law can be immoral or unjust? ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/59 "2017-03-22T04:41:36Z")
I used to know quite a few heroin addicts but after some funerals the number is much smaller. None were rich. Most live/lived in the rural US Midwest. Their lives aren’t / weren’t very out of the ordinary. One even had a phobia of needles. Turns out you can smoke heroin. I had no idea until after the funeral. I even talked to one person about how their ex died of an overdose only to have them die of an overdose months later. Heroin is out there. It’s cheap, easy to get, and great for the funeral industry. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601/60 "2017-03-22T07:48:31Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I’m pretty sure someone here once posted about having to score heroin for Burroughs when he was on a book tour, and that dropping his name made sure they got “the good stuff” (think Vincent Vega.) > > Assuming a reliable supply and clean needles, will heroin actually kill you? While you can always use clean needles, your heroin is NEVER going to be reliable. No part of the manufacture, transport, or selling is regulated. You never have any idea of what you are actually injecting. And China has been selling Carfentanyl to anyone with money for several years now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroin-addicts-do-some-of-them-lead-normal-lives/782601.md?page=4)