# Heroism over Somerset **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 12, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960 "2001-09-12T00:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/21 "2001-09-12T17:53:50Z")
“The god of these gentlemen has summarily assumed them into heaven, as brave and devout martyrs to a glorious cause.” Myron - how wrong you are as this was no Jihad. This was an act of cowards and Allah will curse these people for eternity. They will not attain paradise and have only earned unrelenting hell and pain. The pilot and passengers of this plane are heroes, perhaps they were the only ones who had opportunity to stop more tragedy and when opportunity presented itself they took action, sacrificing their own lives for the lives of others. ---
**Author:** ![notguilty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@notguilty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notguilty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/22 "2001-09-12T17:55:22Z")
I believe that the airliner that crashed in Pennsylvania was more than likely shot down by an F-16. The terrorists knew no pilot would fly into the WTC, Pentagon, etc. That’s why they trained their own pilots. The idea of a heroic pilot nosediving the plane to save thousands of people sounds nice but I would imagine the pilots were dead as soon as the plane got in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/23 "2001-09-12T18:02:42Z")
I believe, however, this pilot had the advantage of having already heard about the other attacks and knowing the true intentions of the hijackers, so I don’t think it is unlikely he crashed that plane in whatever spare moments he had. ---
**Author:** ![TruePisces](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/truepisces/32/13628_2.png) [@TruePisces](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruePisces)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/24 "2001-09-12T18:04:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > **According to some of the evidence surfacing now, two or more of the hijackers may have trained at a flight school in Florida.** And one of those schools is about a mile where I went to High School. I KNOW the place (even though I’ve never been there, I passed it regularly on my way to the beach) This is making it even more surreal for me by the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/25 "2001-09-12T18:42:48Z")
I, too, am a might suspicious about this story. I was talking to a woman who works for AA with the flight crews. She was telling us about a system that commercial jets have; a button that changes the flight number on the air traffic controller’s radar system to a special code indicating emergency conditions (probably the same button that the Korean Air Lines hit mistakenly). However: “There are no indications that any of the airline crews activated a four-digit code alerting ground controllers that a hijacking was in progress.” [http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/hijackers.skills/](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/hijackers.skills/) I can’t believe that a pilot would neglect to do that while he was still in control of his plane. Until we have the black boxes, we won’t know what happened with any of the flights. IMO, it’s more likely that some of the passengers found out about the first attacks via cell phones and stopped this final attack. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/26 "2001-09-12T20:24:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*I am very skeptical of this story. Any confirmation would be appreciated. \*\* You want some confirmation, here you go: > [@](#): > > In his phone call, passenger Thomas Burnett told his wife, Deena, “I know we’re all going to die – there’s three of us who are going to do something about it.” Then, Burnett told his wife, “I love you, honey” and the call ended, the family’s priest, the Rev. Frank Colacicco, told the San Francisco Chronicle. From [here](http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/09/12/cell_phone/index.html). **TVeblen** very clearly stated what his problem was. Read his post again if you don’t get it. So, either the pilot or the three mentioned in the above quote caused the plane to go down. Knowing what precisely happened will have to wait until the cockpit voice recorder is recovered. ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/27 "2001-09-12T20:24:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Feynn \* > \*\*“The god of these gentlemen has summarily assumed them into heaven, as brave and devout martyrs to a glorious cause.” > > Myron - how wrong you are as this was no Jihad. This was an act of cowards and Allah will curse these people for eternity. They will not attain paradise and have only earned unrelenting hell and pain.\*\* You know that, and mainstream Islam knows that, and I CERTAINLY know that. But it’s a cinch that those terrorists were convinced otherwise. In other words, I was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/28 "2001-09-12T23:42:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \* > > \*\*I know it sounds crass, but if the other pilots had reacted the same way, thousands of lives would have been saved. \*\* > > You’re right, it does sound crass. You have **no idea** what those pilots went through or what they tried to do to avoid this catastrophe. For all you know they could’ve been killed instantly and therefore had no time to do _anything_. This post really pisses me off. HOW DARE YOU lay the blame for this tragedy at the feet of the dead pilots??? JESUS! \*\* I lay the blame for this tragedy on the HI-JACKERS and NOBODY ELSE! I think the one pilot had courage beyond belief, and I do not fault the other ones. I am only playing the “what if” game that we all do in times like these. Maybe being in New Jersey I wasn’t thinking so good. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/29 "2001-09-13T00:24:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Demise \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > > \*\*I am very skeptical of this story. Any confirmation would be appreciated. \*\* > > You want some confirmation, here you go: > > > [@](#): > > > > In his phone call, passenger Thomas Burnett told his wife, Deena, “I know we’re all going to die – there’s three of us who are going to do something about it.” Then, Burnett told his wife, “I love you, honey” and the call ended, the family’s priest, the Rev. Frank Colacicco, told the San Francisco Chronicle. > > From [here](http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/09/12/cell_phone/index.html). > > **TVeblen** very clearly stated what his problem was. Read his post again if you don’t get it. > > So, either the pilot or the three mentioned in the above quote caused the plane to go down. Knowing what precisely happened will have to wait until the cockpit voice recorder is recovered. \*\* Ahem. I was skeptical of the story that the pilot was alive and grounded the plane. My opinion was that the passengers overwhelmed the hijackers - which is being confirmed by the press, including the story you quoted. Try reading a little more carefully next time. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/30 "2001-09-13T00:25:34Z")
As I said in the Op, it’s an unconfirmed story, admittedly coming to me second hand. Take it for what it’s worth, nothing more. I would certainly like to think it was true. We’ll see though. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/31 "2001-09-13T00:30:19Z")
You know, we don’t really have any way of verifying _any_ of the stories - including the ones being told by the relatives of the deceased. I’d like to believe that somebody on board, whether pilot(s) or passenger(s), heroically saved the lives of untold numbers by crashing the plane themselves. But unless and until the black box is recovered, we really aren’t going to know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![MysterEcks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MysterEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysterEcks)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/32 "2001-09-13T01:24:16Z")
Yeah, I’ve heard the story now–it certainly sounds like somebody was intending to do something, which may have had something to do with the crash. **ruadh’s** right, though–we won’t know for sure what happened unless they find the black box…and maybe not even then. **notguilty** said: > [@](#): > > I believe that the airliner that crashed in Pennsylvania was more than likely shot down by an F-16. Well, let’s see, there’s no evidence of this, eyewitnesses shown on the local stations (which are also _my_local stations) don’t mention any problems with the plane itself, and the politicians and military aren’t claiming it as a victory in the fight to ultimately save more lives. Other than these quibbling little points, there’s no reason United 93 couldn’t have been shot down by an F-16…or a MIG…or maybe the Red Baron. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/33 "2001-09-13T03:00:57Z")
From the CNN website, concerning two passengers on the flight downed in Pennsylvania who made calls out of the plane: > [@](#): > > Glick and Burnett both said in their calls that the people on board Flight 93 were aware of one or more attacks on the World Trade Center in New York, evidently from the other phone calls. > > “He wanted to know if that was true,” Makely said. > > After Glick was told the reports were true, he left the phone for a while, then returned to say, “The men voted to attack the terrorists,” Makely said. > > “He left the phone and said he would be back,” Makely said. “That’s the last we heard.” > > Burnett’s wife told the AP Wednesday her husband “thought he was going to be home. He was going to solve this problem.” > > Passenger Mark Bingham, 31, called his mother to say the plane had been taken over by three men who said they had a bomb, the AP reported. > > Alice Hoglan said she thinks her son may have helped prevent the hijackers from hitting a more populated area. > > “It gives me a great deal of comfort to know that my son may have been able to avert the killing of many, many innocent people,” she said. > > Makely described Glick as 6-feet-2, 220 pounds, and an athlete. She did not know how many men voted to attack the terrorists. > > Glick’s father-in-law, Richard Makely, said he took the phone, hoping to hear Glick come back and say the passengers and crew had regained control of the plane. > > Instead, he said, “I heard the end of the story.” > > He would not say exactly what he heard, other than to say “it would not have indicated” what ultimately caused the plane’s nose dive into a field in Somerset County, southeast of Pittsburgh, 90 minutes after the first airliner hit one of the twin towers in New York. From this report, located at: [http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/index.html) it suggests that the flight was downed during a fight between the terrorists and passengers. The fight was prompted by news of the attacks in New York. The passengers by their vote wanted to ensure that their flight was not used for a similar purpose. A courageous decision. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/34 "2001-09-13T04:39:09Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Zyada \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Ahem. I was skeptical of the story that the pilot was alive and grounded the plane. My opinion was that the passengers overwhelmed the hijackers - which is being confirmed by the press, including the story you quoted. > > Try reading a little more carefully next time. \*\* Ahem. I wasn’t responding to you, as should have been evidenced by the line in my post that read: > [@](#): > > \*\*\*Originally posted by IzzyR \*\*\* Try taking your own advice next time. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/35 "2001-09-13T04:52:18Z")
Oops. Sorry! ☹ Why did I think that was my post? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/36 "2001-09-13T04:54:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zyada \* > \*\*Oops. Sorry! ☹ > > Why did I think that was my post? 😕 \*\* Probably because mine was immediately after yours. No worries. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/37 "2001-09-13T16:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > As I said in the Op, it’s an unconfirmed story, admittedly coming to me second hand. Well, I was skeptical as to whether that level of detailed knowledge was possible to have at that point, especially about the final moments of the flight. Especially as the source was a guy with a ham radio. > [@](#): > > Take it for what it’s worth, nothing more. Exactly. No criticism intended. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/38 "2001-09-13T17:21:59Z")
Hey, everyone, it’s been a tense couple of days. Take a deep breath. The OP said to take it for what it’s worth. As the details are emerging it definitely looks as if there are plenty of heroics to go around. People are looking for heroes right now, and there are plenty. It looks as if most if not all of the pilots made attempts to tip off ground control. The passengers attempted to overthrow the hijackers. And, at least in my opinion, if there had been a shoot down of this flight, this would also have been heroic. Although data is now pointing in a different direction. There are also some amazing tales of courage, luck and community emerging from the rubble in New York and throughout the world. Let’s try and leave the squabbling and debates around semantics behind for a few days. I know I have made some mistakes in reading and interpretaions in the past two days. Somehow the moist film over my eyes and the lump in my throat makes the accuracy go away. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_The\_Younger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d9b06d/32.png) [@Paul\_The\_Younger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_The_Younger)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/39 "2001-09-13T18:32:25Z")
[CNN reports](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/penn.attack/) that a SECOND field of debris was found six miles from the crash site in Pennsylvania. > [@](#): > > SHANKSVILLE, Pennsylvania (CNN) – Investigators probing the crash of the hijacked United Airlines plane that went down in western Pennsylvania announced Thursday they found another field of debris six miles away from the main crash site. > > Authorities learned of the debris Wednesday and are at the scene. It doesn’t give any more details. Speculation on CNN broadcast is that this debris field seems too far from the crash site to be related to the final impact, and may suggest that there’s more to the story. My guess is they’ll find it is something else, unrelated to Tuesdays crash. Interesting development, but we’ll have to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960/40 "2001-09-13T20:12:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I, too, am a might suspicious about this story. I was talking to a woman who works for AA with the flight crews. She was telling us about a system that commercial jets have; a button that changes the flight number on the air traffic controller’s radar system to a special code indicating emergency conditions (probably the same button that the Korean Air Lines hit mistakenly). However: “There are no indications that any of the airline crews activated a four-digit code alerting ground controllers that a hijacking was in progress.” It now seems that the terrorists were trained pilots. As such, they would have known the four-digit code (especially since they were training to fly Air Transport category aircraft) and they would have known the piece of equipment to watch and/or turn off that is in all U.S. registered aircraft with an electrical system. BTW: The code for emergencies is different from the code for hijacking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heroism-over-somerset/80960.md?page=3)