# Herr Pope reinstates Holocaust Denier **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018 "2009-01-26T04:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/21 "2009-01-26T14:51:25Z")
It is a famous quote. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/22 "2009-01-26T14:57:47Z")
I’m confused. “How many divisions does the Pope have?” is a famous quote? I guess I’m out of that loop. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/23 "2009-01-26T14:59:52Z")
Then google it. Stalin said it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/24 "2009-01-26T15:03:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’m confused. > > “How many divisions does the Pope have?” is a famous quote? No, it’s actually “how many divisions has the Pope?” attributed to a sneering Mr. Uncle Joe Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/25 "2009-01-26T15:11:25Z")
In fairness, I expect Li’l Soso said it in Russian originally. Pope has those Swiss guys, though. Don’t diss the Swiss. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/26 "2009-01-26T15:11:45Z")
Uno divinis latae sententiae inter alia. Valete, motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/27 "2009-01-26T15:12:45Z")
Now it’s coming back around to the “that sounds familiar” part of my brain. I just didn’t make the connection when **Friar Ted** said it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/28 "2009-01-26T15:15:45Z")
> [@Jaglavak](#): > > In keeping with that philosophy, now apparently an obscure point of church rules matters more than preaching of hateful lies. Harm done? Oh well, as long as no church rules are broken. I truly believe the church’s top priority is to avoid making all those priests get a job. I’m no fan of the RCC, but I get the sense that a lot of people - including yourself, no offense - do not understand what “excommunication” is, or what its purpose is. You don’t get excommunicated for being a sinner, or else the RCC would have nobody in it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/29 "2009-01-26T15:23:25Z")
While I seem to be on a Thread Douche Bag roll … really, who cares if someone is excommunicated. I truly don’t understand the big deal. Even for the person being excommunicated, what does it really mean? He can’t take communion? Says who, besides the Pope? If this guy walks into any church on the planet, can’t he just take communion or does he need to present his Papal Communion Permit first? That is to say, apart from the person being excommunicated or re-un-ex-communicated (or whatever), I don’t see how this should or could affect anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/30 "2009-01-26T16:32:31Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > While I seem to be on a Thread Douche Bag roll … really, who cares if someone is excommunicated. I truly don’t understand the big deal. > > Even for the person being excommunicated, what does it really mean? He can’t take communion? Says who, besides the Pope? If this guy walks into any church on the planet, can’t he just take communion or does he need to present his Papal Communion Permit first? > > That is to say, apart from the person being excommunicated or re-un-ex-communicated (or whatever), I don’t see how this should or could affect anyone else. I guess God probably knows and cares. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/31 "2009-01-26T16:38:04Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > I guess God probably knows and cares. Cite? No seriously. If _that_ is the issue, then truly … it’s between the excomminicated and his deity. I really don’t get why announcements of excommincations (or reversals thereof) filter up to CNN’s main page. I really don’t see how that affects … anything. Are there people all over the world changing their lives because Archbishop Eichmann gets an extra sip of wine again? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/32 "2009-01-26T16:41:15Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > How many divisions does the Pope have? Why does it matter? How many years has the Catholic Church lasted? How many years did the Soviet Union last? Maybe Stalin was asking the wrong question? I see a lot of news I don’t care about. I just skip them. A lot of people DO care about these things so I find it rather stupid for others to say they should not be reported. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/33 "2009-01-26T16:47:26Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > While I seem to be on a Thread Douche Bag roll … really, who cares if someone is excommunicated. I truly don’t understand the big deal. > > Even for the person being excommunicated, what does it really mean? He can’t take communion? Says who, besides the Pope? If this guy walks into any church on the planet, can’t he just take communion or does he need to present his Papal Communion Permit first? > > That is to say, apart from the person being excommunicated or re-un-ex-communicated (or whatever), I don’t see how this should or could affect anyone else. You have to remember we’re not dealing with material laws here. Yes, an excommunicated man could attend Mass, in fact they are still required to do so. And they could sneakily eat the cookie and drink the plonk, but he will not fool the Big Kahuna (or whoever in his staff oversees transubstantiation). It’ll literally be a cracker and some booze, not the blood & flesh of Christ. Since I think confession & absolution are out too (those are sacraments, right ?), no more shedding your sins until you’re cleared back in the fold. And quite obviously, no more priesthood. Obviously, to we heathens and heretics, all of this doesn’t mean squat. But for a Catholic who does believe in this stuff, it carries some weight. Oh, and apparently the opposite of excommunication is reconciliation. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/34 "2009-01-26T17:00:15Z")
I bet Bill O’Rielly’s pissed! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/35 "2009-01-26T17:36:49Z")
Who set it up in the first place that an excommunicated bishop could ordain others in the first place? It sounds very political and not at all spiritual. And I am no Catholic and truly don’t care what the Pope does to his ducklings, but I think it does look bad. Especially coming from a Pope with a German background. (I am not equating being German with being Nazi–I’m saying it looks bad). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/36 "2009-01-26T17:40:30Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Just to clear some things up, Williamson is still suspended a divinis under Canon Law 1333 (paragraph 1). This means he has no church authority or jurisdiction of any kind, and he cannot participate in mass. All the Pope did was lift the latae sententiae incurred inter alia for receiving episcopal orders without papal permission. > > Saying that the Pope has “reinstated” Williamson is like saying that a parole board has overturned a court verdict. You should have this thread closed before Der Trihs or someone of his ilk seizes upon it to spout bullshit and spread ignorance. I’ve never pretended to ever be Catholic, or Christian for that matter. I’m unaware of the term for de-excommunication. If you read the link, you’ll see that there is talk about Benedict going further in rehabilitating this group than just reversing excommunication. People rightly say that it is unfair to tar all religion because a few extremists are dicks. This is a case of the leader of the largest branch of Christianity being a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/37 "2009-01-26T17:55:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I gotta go with **Jaglavak** , on this one. > > Everytime I flick onto [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) or something and I see a headline which starts, “The Pope Declares …” or “The Pope Says …” or “The Pope Does Any Fucking Thing …” my first thought is … who gives a shit what the pope says? > > Yes, I know, Catholics care. But when someone from a completely different club pipes up to say, “Hey now, there, Pope-a-rooni … we don’t appreciate the fact that you’re going to let someone chew on a wafer again”. What fucking difference does it make? > > It’s like complaining to the Ayotollah Whoevers-in-charge that Achmed gets to come to afternoon prayers again after claiming the Archbishop of Cantebury plays with dolls. Who cares what these poeple think? For fucks sake, by this rationale, as an atheist I could host a press-conference every hour on the hour complaining about the shit that the Pope says that doesn’t jibe with me. > > Is it really earth-shattering news that one more holocaust denier gets go to church again? Like I said in the OP, I don’t give a crap about most of these Bishops. I do care when the Pope also de-excommunicates a Holocaust Denier. Given the church’s rather controversial behavior during the war, and his background, might it not send a good message if he excluded Williamson or somehow got Williamson to renounce his bigotry? According to the link with the correction, he’s got some other amusing beliefs also. Anyone have links that say this bunch is repenting the error of their ways? Accepting Papal authority, yes, but not a big deal when that authority is on your side. As for it being a big deal, if a priest gets married without resigning from the priesthood and gets excommunicated, wouldn’t it be a big deal, and send a message,. if a Pope let him back in without him apologizing? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/38 "2009-01-26T18:00:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > As for it being a big deal, if a priest gets married without resigning from the priesthood and gets excommunicated, wouldn’t it be a big deal, and send a message, if a Pope let him back in without him apologizing? Not to me. And that’s my point. The Pope is in charge of the Catholics. I fully expect this to be the headline of the The Daily Papal Tribune, but I still don’t get why things like this filter up into actual news, like it makes a difference in anything. They’re pretty much adressing club rules. Leave that shit with the club is all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/39 "2009-01-26T18:08:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Like I said in the OP, I don’t give a crap about most of these Bishops. I do care when the Pope also de-excommunicates a Holocaust Denier. Given the church’s rather controversial behavior during the war, and his background, might it not send a good message if he excluded Williamson or somehow got Williamson to renounce his bigotry? According to the link with the correction, he’s got some other amusing beliefs also. > > Anyone have links that say this bunch is repenting the error of their ways? Accepting Papal authority, yes, but not a big deal when that authority is on your side. > > As for it being a big deal, if a priest gets married without resigning from the priesthood and gets excommunicated, wouldn’t it be a big deal, and send a message,. if a Pope let him back in without him apologizing? If being a Holocaust denier had nothing to do with this buttmunch getting excommunicated, why should it have anything to do with his being reconciled? Apart from making you theoretically better disposed towards the leader of a Church that you wouldn’t have anything to do with at gunpoint, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018/40 "2009-01-26T18:12:08Z")
It’s kind of a well know story here in Kansas of all places. There’s a town, St. Mary’s, where a lot of traditional Catholics, members of the Society of Pius X, have migrated to. They have a school, and celebrate mass with the Latin, Tridentine rite. At over 2000 members, they just about outnumber the original townspeople. Last year their high school refused to let a woman referee officiate at a game they were to play. The other ref, a guy, then refused to officiate as well. And when the ref who had been about to leave, a former Army officer, was asked to stay and officiate, he adamantly refused as well. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/national/main3829861.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME\_3829861](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/national/main3829861.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829861) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/herr-pope-reinstates-holocaust-denier/483018.md?page=3)