# He's Black. Accept It. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708 "2008-11-07T20:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/41 "2008-11-07T22:18:33Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Duly noted. I admit that it is my own silly issues that bother me about that. Something I need to work on. Very fair and much more rational response that 99% of the folks you’re reacting to. I don’t think the issues are silly, just hard. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/42 "2008-11-07T22:20:09Z")
> [@Some\_FNG](#): > > **Odesio** , you have a problem with pedantic? If so, you really shouldn’t be here in the pit.:rolleyes: No, what I have a problem with is someone being a stupid twit even if it is the Pit. > [@](#): > > Sorry if it offends your delicate sensibilities, but it is an important distinction (to me) to make. Don’t worry you haven’t offended by delicate sensibilities. I just don’t know why it was an important distinction for you to make seeing as how we’re all smart enough to know what was meant by calling Obama the first black president. We weren’t talking about Liberia, South Africa, or any other country. It was pretty clear we were talking about the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/43 "2008-11-07T22:22:38Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Oh! No. I know he is black. That is not what I meant. I meant that Obama is cool black. Not cornball black. I thought of using Bryant Gumble, but I personally think he is less of a cornball and more ‘cool’ black than most people give him credit for. I’m sorry I took your words more harshly than you intended. However, I’m not all that happy with the notion of dividing people into “cool black” and “cornball black.” It sounds, at first listen, like an example of valueing style over substance. True, when we’re talking O.J., there is no substance, and he left his style behind decades ago. But the fact that you even considered using Bryant Gumbel as your example of “cornball” brings me right back to that first listen. Gumbel’s personality may leave a bit to be desired, but he is educated, accomplished, and in IMO no way lacking as a black man. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/44 "2008-11-07T22:26:09Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > To argue with a person’s self-declared racial identity is foolish, and insulting. I can see foolish, but insulting? If a really really pale skinned freckle faced blue eyed white man claims to be Asian, when all of his ancestors are from Sweden, why is it an insult to question that? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/45 "2008-11-07T22:32:00Z")
> [@Monstera\_deliciosa](#): > > I’m sorry I took your words more harshly than you intended. However, I’m not all that happy with the notion of dividing people into “cool black” and “cornball black.” It sounds, at first listen, like an example of valueing style over substance. True, when we’re talking O.J., there is no substance, and he left his style behind decades ago. But the fact that you even considered using Bryant Gumbel as your example of “cornball” brings me right back to that first listen. Gumbel’s personality may leave a bit to be desired, but he is educated, accomplished, and in IMO no way lacking as a black man. You misunderstand, sister. I divide everybody into cornball vs. cool. Now are you gonna get on board with the cool cats or are you gonna keep givin’ me lip? ETA: Seriously though, I admitted Bryant was not a cornball, right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/46 "2008-11-07T22:32:20Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m not an American, and I have a question: is the “one drop rule” accepted as definitive by Black as well as White Americans in determining identity? Pretty much. Practically all African-Americans have some white ancestors in the woodpile if truth be known, even if their skin is black as coal at midnight, and many African-Americans whose identity as such is never questioned are paler of skin than Obama. What makes him less than a full, unconditional member of the AA community is the cultural factor that he was not born and raised in it; but he did struggle to get accepted into it and he did marry into it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/47 "2008-11-07T22:36:44Z")
He married into the smokin’ hot community. When that woman barefoots, she scorches footprints into the sidewalk. Have _mercy_! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/48 "2008-11-07T22:40:33Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I can see foolish, but insulting? If a really really pale skinned freckle faced blue eyed white man claims to be Asian, when all of his ancestors are from Sweden, why is it an insult to question that? Someone once told me I didn’t look Jewish. I told him to go fuck himself. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/49 "2008-11-07T22:41:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What makes him less than a full, unconditional member of the AA community is the cultural factor that he was not born and raised in it; but he did struggle to get accepted into it and he did marry into it. So he’s _nouveau_ black? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_FNG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Some\_FNG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_FNG)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/50 "2008-11-07T22:42:10Z")
**Odesio** - Ok, without taking **Nzinga, seated** to the woodshed, I feel that it is an important distinction because the phrase “first black president” completely negates and ignores the history of African democracy. If we’re supposed to look forward to a new era in positive American engagement with the rest of the world, and a rebirth of positive American ideals then why would we want to invalidate someone else’s history? Because that’s what that phrase means to me. It reads, to me (apparently alone), that we Americans are the only ones who write history. There’s no argument from me that Tuesday was historically important for America, but in the midst of this moment I want to acknowledge the fact that other countries have elected men and women of color long before the US of A. So if this makes me a stupid twit, then so be it. I have been called worse and yet I thrive. ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/51 "2008-11-07T22:42:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > You misunderstand, sister. I divide everybody into cornball vs. cool. Now are you gonna get on board with the cool cats or are you gonna keep givin’ me lip? Are you serious!? I took my user name from my favorite houseplant! I couldn’t be any more cornball if I tried. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/52 "2008-11-07T22:43:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Someone once told me I didn’t look Jewish. I told him to go fuck himself. You don’t look Asian either. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/53 "2008-11-07T22:44:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Someone once told me I didn’t look Jewish. I told him to go fuck himself. Are all your ancestors Jewish? Is Jewish a race? What race is my Scandinavian example if he converts? Does he stop being Asian? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/54 "2008-11-07T22:46:52Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > I have seen blacks from other countries who want to make it clear that they’re not one of \*those \*black people. I remember a scene from [_Sugar Hill:_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Hill_(1994_film)) Drug dealer Roemello Skuggs is angling to cut out the Italian-American middlemen and buy direct from his bro’, a Nigerian wholesaler. NIGERIAN: I am very sorry, we simply cannot do business with an [Akata.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akata) SKUGGS: [looks puzzled] NIGERIAN: African-American. SKUGGS: [still puzzled] NIGERIAN: Cotton picker. SKUGGS: [assaults the Nigerian] ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/55 "2008-11-07T22:47:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > \ > No, he’s the first black President of the United States of America. > > There have been lots of black American presidents before him. [This guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Archer), for example. > \ > 😃 The practice of referring to the whole landmass comprised of North and South America as America is bizarre to me and, from a cursory glance at how the name ‘America’ is used, is far from generally accepted. The people who insist that ‘America’ can only correctly refer to the whole, giant landmass are unclear on the concept of what defines correctness in language: It’s common usage, not prescriptions from on high, and common usage seems to strongly favor using America to refer to the single country with the full name ‘The United States of America’. (That, and just saying ‘the U.S.’ could just as easily refer to the United States of Mexico. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/56 "2008-11-07T22:48:20Z")
> [@Some\_FNG](#): > > **Odesio** - Ok, without taking **Nzinga, seated** to the woodshed, I feel that it is an important distinction because the phrase “first black president” completely negates and ignores the history of African democracy. If we’re supposed to look forward to a new era in positive American engagement with the rest of the world, and a rebirth of positive American ideals then why would we want to invalidate someone else’s history? Because that’s what that phrase means to me. It reads, to me (apparently alone), that we Americans are the only ones who write history. > > There’s no argument from me that Tuesday was historically important for America, but in the midst of this moment I want to acknowledge the fact that other countries have elected men and women of color long before the US of A. > > So if this makes me a stupid twit, then so be it. I have been called worse and yet I thrive. Oh come on now, it was pretty fucking bloody clear that was bloody damned short hand for First Black American President. Jesus Fucking Christ on a Damned Pole, some of you people taking tedious idiotic nitpicking to real heights. Yes, it does making you a stupid fucking tedious twit. Same for the comment on Jodi’s comment, I mean bloody fucking hell, I think someone with some basic sense can bloody well read into her comment the proper caveats. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/57 "2008-11-07T22:52:10Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I divide everybody into cornball vs. cool. Hey, there’s no need to choose! Look at Garrison Keillor! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/58 "2008-11-07T22:53:00Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Same for the comment on Jodi’s comment, I mean bloody fucking hell, I think someone with some basic sense can bloody well read into her comment the proper caveats. Humor me. Bloody well elaborate the proper caveats, if you can spare the goddamned fucking time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/59 "2008-11-07T22:56:31Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Are all your ancestors Jewish? Is Jewish a race? What race is my Scandinavian example if he converts? Does he stop being Asian? Where I come from, Jewish is a race. As for converts, they’re like adopted children - in that while they may not look like their siblings, they’re still equally family. Anyway, the person who said it thought he was complimenting me. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708/60 "2008-11-07T22:59:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Pretty much. Practically all African-Americans have some white ancestors in the woodpile if truth be known, even if their skin is black as coal at midnight, and many African-Americans whose identity as such is never questioned are paler of skin than Obama. What makes him less than a full, unconditional member of the AA community is the cultural factor that he was not born and raised in it; but he did struggle to get accepted into it and he did marry into it. Did you read the same book I read? \*Married \*into the black community?? No. He didn’t do that, BrainGlutton. He has been black all his life. He knew it. Toot knew it. All of his friends in Hawaii knew it. The idea of him marrying into a black family is outrageous. We have mixed kids in our family that we call black, and that is just how they identify. Fine. They have blue eyes, some of them, and silky hair, but hey, they are black. Fine. If they didn’t want to be called black, that is fine too. But the mixed kids who _look_ black? We don’t delude them that they aren’t black. We tell them they we are black and we are proud. Best we let them in on the secret that they are black than let the world tell them a lil’ bit harsher. ETA: BG, I had to google Garrison Keillor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-black-accept-it/471708.md?page=4)