# He's gay, so he has HIV, so don't perform CPR on him. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862 "2006-03-03T03:06:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/1 "2006-03-03T03:06:57Z")
From [365gay.com](http://365gay.com/Newscon06/03/030206vaSuit.htm): > [@](#): > > (Charleston, West Virginia) A federal discrimination lawsuit was filed Thursday by the surviving family members of a man who died of a heart attack after the police chief allegedly prevented his friend from performing CPR. … > > According papers filed in court Thursday Snead had begun performing CPR by the side of the road when Bowman arrived and told Snead to stop because Green was HIV positive. … > > While they were putting Green in the ambulance, Bowman informed EMS workers that Green was HIV positive. > > Although the EMS workers ignored Bowman’s warnings and performed CPR on Green, he passed away shortly after arriving at the hospital. He did not have HIV. The court papers said that Bowman based his assumption that Green was HIV+ because he knew Green was gay. A man is dead thanks to your brainless ass, you motherfucker. I hope you realize what you’ve done and that the memory of that man in his death throes while you did all you could to ensure he couldn’t get help haunts you for the rest of your life. You don’t deserve to wear that uniform or indeed anything other than prison orange; I hope they don’t stop at this lawsuit but get your incompetent ass convicted of manslaughter, you prick. Thanks for thinking gay lives - hell, HIV-positive lives, even if this man wasn’t - aren’t worth saving. (This is not the only story like this I’ve heard, BTW, like the woman in I think Washington who was badly injured in a car crash, and when the paramedics discovered she was trans, they stood around laughing at her until she died.) ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/2 "2006-03-03T03:19:43Z")
You know, some days, I wish the big plague we’re supposed to get in the next century would just hurry up already. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/3 "2006-03-03T03:27:50Z")
Not sure about that phrasing there Kythereia… (Gay plague) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/4 "2006-03-03T03:46:46Z")
It’s this part that’s the worst: > [@](#): > > Bowman arrived and told Snead to stop because Green was HIV positive. > > When Snead didn’t stop the CPR, Bowman grabbed Snead by the shoulders and physically barred Snead from continuing CPR at a critical point in Green’s resuscitation. Snead, who had not realized at first that Bowman was a police officer, obeyed his commands. How fucking twisted do you have to be to do something like that? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/5 "2006-03-03T03:58:01Z")
I barely even know what to say in response to this. If Bowman ever finds himself in need of CPR, i hope he finds someone just as compassionate and humane as he is. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/6 "2006-03-03T04:03:10Z")
I do so hope that that example of Charleston’s finest loses his job, at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Hirundo82](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@Hirundo82](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirundo82)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/7 "2006-03-03T04:18:06Z")
The level of ignorance in this story is staggering, but I can’t say that it surprises me. I grew up less than a hundred miles from where this story takes place. I remember a story a gay friend of mine told me once. When a girl who worked for him found out he was gay, she asked, “But won’t you die of AIDS?” She had absolutely no clue about what caused AIDS. I guess she assumed it was caused by the same virus that causes “the gay”. But this is a law enforcement officer we are talking about here. The level of stupidity and intolerance that it takes to physically restrain a person from helping someone else just because you know the person is gay boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/8 "2006-03-03T04:21:10Z")
[ > [@](#): > > …Welch, W.Va. Chief of Police Robert K. Bowman physically blocked Billy Snead from performing CPR on Claude Green, Jr. after Green suffered a heart attack while driving with Snead last summer in their hometown of Welch… > …Snead had begun performing CPR by the side of the road when Bowman arrived and told Snead to stop because Green was HIV positive… > …When Snead didn’t stop the CPR, Bowman grabbed Snead by the shoulders and physically barred Snead from continuing CPR at a critical point in Green’s resuscitation. Snead, who had not realized at first that Bowman was a police officer, obeyed his commands… > …Bowman prevented anyone else from aiding Green until EMS workers arrived approximately 10 minutes later. ]([http://365gay.com/Newscon06/03/030206vaSuit.htm](http://365gay.com/Newscon06/03/030206vaSuit.htm))Assuming this is all true. Can anyone explain to me why Robert K. Bowman shouldn’t be prosecuted for murder? CMC Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/9 "2006-03-03T04:35:38Z")
Yes once again lets get the bastard responsible for this senseless tragedy before anyone can even say “Guilty” or “Evidence”. You know without a doubt this senseless act happened right Mr. Snead er I mean Matt. You all are so willing to believe it, maybe just maybe give some time for some facts to come out. From what I am seeing it is a he said/ the other guy said thing. > [@](#): > > Police Chief Bobby Bowman called the allegations “a boldface lie.” He said that he called an ambulance and that Green was taken to the hospital in “no more than nine minutes.” [http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/02/cpr.lawsuit.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/02/cpr.lawsuit.ap/index.html) You know sometimes people lie for reasons unknown. But it happens. And for you all to jump on the good ship crucify, maybe let some of the facts come out. Or is it politically correct now to call for someones head if someone else accuses them of something before any evidence is in place? If so I missed that memo. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/10 "2006-03-03T04:44:11Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > Yes once again lets get the bastard responsible for this senseless tragedy before anyone can even say “Guilty” or “Evidence”. You know without a doubt this senseless act happened right Mr. Snead er I mean Matt. > > You all are so willing to believe it, maybe just maybe give some time for some facts to come out. From what I am seeing it is a he said/ the other guy said thing. > [http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/02/cpr.lawsuit.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/02/cpr.lawsuit.ap/index.html) > > You know sometimes people lie for reasons unknown. But it happens. And for you all to jump on the good ship crucify, maybe let some of the facts come out. Or is it politically correct now to call for someones head if someone else accuses them of something before any evidence is in place? If so I missed that memo. Well, why would Snead lie about what happened? He doesn’t stand to gain anything from the lawsuit. Why would the EMS workers lie about it? ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/11 "2006-03-03T04:44:43Z")
I read a slightly [different](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_us/cpr_lawsuit_2) version. > [@](#): > > Police Chief Bobby Bowman called the allegations “a boldface lie.” He said that he called an ambulance and that Green was taken to the hospital in “no more than nine minutes.” > > … > The lawsuit accuses Bowman of pulling off Green’s friend Billy Snead as Snead was performing chest compressions on the man. Snead was a passenger in Green’s pickup truck when Green collapsed; Snead had managed to pull over the vehicle. > > Green was pronounced dead at the hospital after about 30 minutes of attempts to revive him. > … > Rose Saxe, a lawyer with the ACLU’s AIDS Project, said Bowman’s alleged actions contributed to Green’s death and violated the Americans with Disabilities Act, equal protection laws and due process rights. > > … > “He was simply a gay man in Welch, West Virginia. And because of that **we can only assume that Chief Bowman assumed** he had HIV and it was unsafe to even touch him,” Saxe said. > > When asked if he knew if Green was gay, Bowman would not answer and referred questions to McDowell County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Danny Barie, who also represents the City of Welch. bolding mine Assuming an assumption? That doesn’t sound too solid. Don’t get me wrong, if the cop caused this guy to die because of prejudice, he needs to be locked up. But there seems to be alot of supposition going on here. The above article does not mention the cop telling the buddy to stop because the guy might be HIV+, maybe the buddy was doing the CPR in a potentially destructive manner. The story quoted inthe OP states: > [@](#): > > Although the EMS workers ignored Bowman’s warnings and performed CPR on Green, he passed away shortly after arriving at the hospital. He did not have HIV. The court papers said that Bowman based his assumption that Green was HIV+ because he knew Green was gay. That implies that there was no 30 minutes of CPR at the hospital, one of these stories has their facts wrong. The “court papers” imply that the cop made a statement to the effect of “I thought he had HIV because I knew he was gay.” I believe that this is an accusation, and that the cop said “no comment”. I’m just playing the devil’s advocate here. Each one of those stories is spun differently. The cop could be a super prejudiced asshole, or the family might be lashing out after a tragedy because their son experience a lot of prejudice. I guess the courts will decide. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/12 "2006-03-03T04:49:14Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > Yes once again lets get the bastard responsible for this senseless tragedy before anyone can even say “Guilty” or “Evidence”. You know without a doubt this senseless act happened right Mr. Snead er I mean Matt. You know what, you’re absolutely right. In fact, I took someone to task for this very reason a short time ago. I humbly apologize and can only say that I was very upset. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/13 "2006-03-03T04:50:56Z")
A [.pdf file of the complaint](http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file653_24334.pdf) is available at the [ACLU’s website press release page](http://www.aclu.org/hiv/gen/24335prs20060302.html). It contains more detail on how events are alleged to have unfolded, and one bright spot in an ugly story: Apparently, Claude’s sister Anita found a love so true that she had no qualms about taking the name “Anita Tickle.” Isn’t that nice? ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/14 "2006-03-03T04:52:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, why would Snead lie about what happened? He doesn’t stand to gain anything from the lawsuit. Why would the EMS workers lie about it? EMS hasn’t said anything about it yet. So that is the wait and see thing. As for why people lie, for attention? For 15minutes in the spotlight? I don’t know. Don’t even know if he is lying, but I am sure as shit not willing to jump on the crucify anyone bandwagon yet. Let the dust clear, then hang someone. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/15 "2006-03-03T04:58:42Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > A [.pdf file of the complaint](http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file653_24334.pdf) is available at the [ACLU’s website press release page](http://www.aclu.org/hiv/gen/24335prs20060302.html). > > It contains more detail on how events are alleged to have unfolded, and one bright spot in an ugly story: > > Apparently, Claude’s sister Anita found a love so true that she had no qualms about taking the name “Anita Tickle.” Isn’t that nice? Well I read over the PDF, and there is apparently more then one witness other then Mr. Snead prior to medical help arriving. So this should be a simple case, and as more evidence comes in I will join the lynching, but for now it is still a hes said/he said thing. He did alert the EMS to the HIV status that much I get as fact, as it was in there log. That means the bastard probably did it. But then again, time will tell I do believe. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/16 "2006-03-03T05:01:12Z")
Sheer idiocy and prejudice on the part of the police officer. IIRC though, CPR only helps in a pretty small percentage of heart attack cases. It was November when I took my last CPR/First Aid refresher, but I’m thinking that it’s only about 15%, though someone less lazy than I am is free to google and correct me if they like. The fact that he physically prevented ANYONE from helping just staggers me. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/17 "2006-03-03T05:02:50Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > You know what, you’re absolutely right. In fact, I took someone to task for this very reason a short time ago. I humbly apologize and can only say that I was very upset. Oh I understood your anger, after reading the story earlier I was angry as well. It’s bullshit like this that make the USA no different then many other countries we sit here and accuse of being full of evil. The only good thing is, I think justice does get served in many of these cases. It just shocked me how many people where willing to lynch so quick. I am all for a good beating down of bastards, but I prefer to wait to see what actually happened first. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/18 "2006-03-03T05:20:07Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > …maybe the buddy was doing the CPR in a potentially destructive manner… > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > …IIRC though, CPR only helps in a pretty small percentage of heart attack cases. > It was November when I took my last CPR/First Aid refresher, but I’m thinking that it’s only about 15%… From, GREEN vs THE CITY OF WELCH, and ROBERT K. BOWMAN > [@](#): > > 1. Snead had training in cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) and believed that > Claude might be choking because his face was red. He checked for obstructions in Claude’s > mouth, and tried to tilt his head back. > 2. When he realized that Claude was still unable to breathe, Snead shook him several > times, and Claude gasped for breath. > 3. Snead then immediately realized that Claude’s heart was not beating, and he hit > Claude’s chest with his fist two or three times. After several blows, Claude’s heart started > beating again. It was a hot summer day, and Claude was wearing a light-weight shirt. Snead > could feel Claude’s heart beat when he shook him and pushed on his chest. Claude continued to > gasp for breath when Snead pushed on his chest. > … > 4. When performed immediately after sudden cardiac arrest, CPR can significantly > reduce the likelihood of death by providing a small but critical amount of blood flow to the heart > and brain. Studies have found that for every minute without CPR, the survival rate from sudden > cardiac arrest decreases by seven to ten percent. Other studies have shown that CPR performed > immediately by a bystander can double or triple the survival rate from sudden cardiac arrest. CMC ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/19 "2006-03-03T05:45:12Z")
Those are still just plaintiff statements written down by their legal counsel. The Wendy’s finger-in-the-chili lady had accusations too. At this point there is little proof either way. If I were to bet on it, the cop probably acted irresponsibly. If the guy was admitted at 2:15 and was pronounced dead at 2:52, he must have been showing some signs of life during that time or they would have stopped. If the EMTs and the hospital weren’t able to revive him afetr almost an hour, why would one think that Snead or Bowman could have done any better? Granted, the earlier that aid is administered the better, but it is still possible that this guy could have had the heart attack _in the hospital_ and still died. It happens every day. The guy was given CPR by no fewer than 3 people (Snead, EMTs, hospital staff) and he still died. Can anyone make an airtight case that the cop caused the guy to die by way of inaction? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862/20 "2006-03-03T05:47:02Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > From, > GREEN vs THE CITY OF WELCH, and ROBERT K. BOWMAN > CMC Thanks, but it didn’t include what the survival rate from cardiac arrest was. It mentioned that survival rate could be doubled or tripled, but not what that rate is. Sorry! I know, beggars can’t be choosers. Also, I know for a FACT that if the heart is beating, and the person is breathing, you do NOT perform CPR. And that CPR is not done to restart the heart, but to keep blood, and therefore oxygen, cirulating. A “precordial” thump (correct spelling at will, I’m much too lazy to spell check tonight), should ONLY be done once and only if you absolutely know what you are doing. From the sounds of the first part of your quote, it doesn’t sound as if snead did know what he was doing. Pushing on the guy’s chest after he already could detect a heartbeat and the guy was at least trying to breathe? He “shook him several times” In an effort to assist him when he thought he was choking? You only shake someone to guage their consciousness. If they are truly choking (and you are supposed to go through steps to determine this, not just assume because “their face is red”) you perform a hiemlich. If they are breathing, however gaspingly, and their heart is beating, you DON’T perform CPR. The guy sounds like an utter moron. That whole first part of your quote sounds exactly what the CPR/First Aid instructors tell us NOT to do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-gay-so-he-has-hiv-so-dont-perform-cpr-on-him/346862.md?page=2)