# he's not allowed to be proud that he's straight **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2001, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310 "2001-05-04T03:51:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/21 "2001-05-04T08:08:02Z")
Maybe I’m slow, but I don’t see the ‘straight pride’ T-shirt and the ‘safe-zones’ as analogous. To me, and I may be wrong, the ‘safe-zones’ are where kids can go to not get pounded and the T-shirt is to let people know who will be leading the pounding movement. > [@](#): > > "Plus I was called into the Principal’s office twice and harassed because of my sexual “orientation” (translated - I am what God made me - straight and abstinent!) OK, the kid loses all credibility here. What are supposed to think happened here? The principal sits him in a chair and says ‘What’s the matter, Johhny? Don’t you _want_ to be gay?’ IMHO, the kid is not an asshole. The kid is a tool. I expect his parents are leading him in this. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/22 "2001-05-04T08:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cessandra \* > **"white pride" does not mean “white power.” let me tell you something, i am fucking proud to be white.** How can you take pride in something you had absolutely nothing to do with? Pride comes with accomplishments. > [@](#): > > **i am proud of my irish ancestors who came to this country with nothing and lived as responsible, respectable citizens. i am proud of my italian great-grandparents who went from living in the ghetto to _owning_ it. and i’m proud of my italian great-grandfather who fled italy because he did not support mussolini, and instead raised his son to be a good american. my grandfather fought for this country; the country that subjugated his own mother to a sweatshop because no one wanted to hire an immigrant.** Ah, now it makes sense. You are proud of your ancestors because of the _kind of people_ they were, and because of _how they acted and made it through difficult times_. That’s fine, of course - you are proud of their accomplishments. But are you really “proud to be white”? I sure ain’t, it’s just the paint job I was delivered with. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/23 "2001-05-04T10:10:18Z")
I don’t disagree with many of you who feel like this kid has some assholish tendencies. But the school _shouldn’t_ have forbidden him from wearing the shirt. See what a furor it has caused? See how we’re talking about it? If the kid had just worn the shirt, and people had either been irritated by it, ignored it, or liked it, and left it at that, I’m sure he would have probably eventually tired of wearing it. This way, he gets to be on TV, and interviewed, and the whole thing is a media circus. The school has really set themselves up here. If you start cherry-picking who can wear what, when will it stop? Everyone can find something “offensive” about almost any t-shirt slogan. We all have different sensibilities. (Hey - what about someone who wears a Las Vegas t-shirt, with a picture of dice on it? Someone who is staunchly against gambling could be offended by that.) “Straight Pride” may have undertones that people don’t like, but it does not _blatantly_ say anything hateful. Either the school forbids _everyone_ from wearing _anything_ with a slogan, or they’ll have to tolerate this kind of stuff. I don’t see what other options they have. I also like mrvisible’s suggestion, everyone else wear “Red-headed Pride” t-shirts, and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/24 "2001-05-04T10:48:10Z")
In a slightly-closer-to-perfect world, I see offended parties not whining at the school administration, but getting “Not-Elliot-Chambers Pride” shirts and such made. But, alas. They decided to give him fifteen minutes instead. ---
**Author:** ![Amulet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Amulet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amulet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/25 "2001-05-04T11:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > How can you take pride in something you had absolutely nothing to do with? Pride comes with accomplishments… But are you really “proud to be white”? I sure ain’t, it’s just the paint job I was delivered with. Exactly. And while I understand what the real point of “Gay Pride” and all the other prides out there, I find they are a rather piss-poor choice of wordiing because you get shit _just like this_ from little dickheads who are too stupid to understand. It creates a backlash in which the more idiotic straights have to take us down a notch or two. I am _not_ proud of my bisexuality, like Coldfire’s paint job it’s just the wiring I came with. Now, the fact that I feel quite blessed is a totally different story… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/26 "2001-05-04T11:59:13Z")
If gay students are allowed to wear “GAY PRIDE” shirts, this kid (asshole or not) should be allowed to wear a “STRAIGHT PRIDE” shirt, end of story. If a student chooses to be offended by it, his complaint is no more valid than a student who chooses to be offended by the gay pride shirt. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/27 "2001-05-04T12:33:33Z")
Thank you for making what would have been my exact point about “white pride,” and doing it a hell of a lot more politely than I would have. Cessandra, anyone who is filled with “pride” at the accomplishment of having been born with a particular skin color or sexual orientation is a worthless piece of shit. If you are proud of the accomplishments of your ancestors, more power to you–but not one goddamned thing they ever accomplished was the result of their melanin levels. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/28 "2001-05-04T12:34:44Z")
Er, that first sentence should have been addressed to **Coldfire** and **Amulet**. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/29 "2001-05-04T12:47:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **IMHO, the kid is not an asshole. The kid is a tool. I expect his parents are leading him in this.** I don’t know; I think you’d be very surprised at how stupid and dogmatic teenagers can be all their own. The kid IS an asshole. The whole point to “Gay pride” or “Black pride” or “(Disadvantaged minority) Pride” isn’t really gay pride or black pride at all. It’s ridiculous to be “proud” of being gay or be proud of being black, or in being Chinese or Belgian or in your particular type of fingerprints; those are not things you had any say in. The point to those movements, if you will, is to instill in those people the pride everyone should have in being a person on equal footing with everyone else. Does Mr. Straight High School Student need that? I don’t think so, and I don’t think he could rationally defend it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mrvisible \* > \*\*If I’d been the assistant principal, I’d have gotten a few trusted students together, and asked them to come up with some of their own shirts. Stuff like . . . “Attention Deficit Disorder Pride”, ". \*\* We have kids in my high school with attention deficit disorder wearing shirts like that. Well except they all just read “Attention Defic”. Ha ha! Sorry, couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/30 "2001-05-04T12:54:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*If gay students are allowed to wear “GAY PRIDE” shirts, this kid (asshole or not) should be allowed to wear a “STRAIGHT PRIDE” shirt, end of story. If a student chooses to be offended by it, his complaint is no more valid than a student who chooses to be offended by the gay pride shirt. \*\* There is no mention in the article of anyone wearing “GAY PRIDE” t-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/31 "2001-05-04T12:59:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > Ah, now it makes sense. You are proud of your ancestors because of the _kind of people_ they were, and because of _how they acted and made it through difficult times_. That’s fine, of course - you are proud of their accomplishments. But are you really “proud to be white”? I sure ain’t, it’s just the paint job I was delivered with. \*\* I suspect that “white pride” sometimes means “Italian pride” “Irish pride”, or “Scot pride” (snicker 🙂 ) etc… for some people…I think there have been threads along this line before concerning the notion of “white” ethnicity (or lack there of). The notion of “white pride” as a celebration of ancestral heritage seems kind of vague and less meaningful than “Irish pride”, for example. But if that’s what the person means by the expression “white pride”…fine for them then I guess. The kid in question sounds like a jerk, and if I was his dad he wouldn’t be wearing that t-shirt just because of the general jerkiness factor. That’s not the same thing as bannable material in schools, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/32 "2001-05-04T13:40:34Z")
The kid is a jerk. BUT … If the school is gonna organize and promote “safe zones” for gay students (thereby giving them official recognition, as they should), then they’re gonna have to allow students from the opposite end of the spectrum to be recognized, as well. When an institution starts picking-and-choosing which aspects of the freedom of speech it’s gonna allow, it gets into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/33 "2001-05-04T14:03:38Z")
But why is he proud hes straight? And if he is, why announce it? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/34 "2001-05-04T14:07:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*But why is he proud hes straight? > And if he is, why announce it? \*\* And by the same token, why would someone who is gay be proud of that? Why announce it? The school has sanctioned the placement of “gay pride” symbols (the inverted pink triangle) in its physical plant. It cannot turn around and tell a student that he’s not allowed to wear a “straight pride” shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/35 "2001-05-04T14:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\* It cannot turn around and tell a student that he’s not allowed to wear a “straight pride” shirt. \*\* It sure can. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/36 "2001-05-04T14:20:48Z")
Good point, **spooje**. Okay, then, how’s this: It cannot \*apply the same standards \*and tell another student he’s not allowed to wear a “straight pride” shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Cessandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cessandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cessandra)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/37 "2001-05-04T14:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Cessandra, anyone who is filled with “pride” at the accomplishment of having been born with a particular skin color or sexual orientation is a worthless piece of shit. If you are proud of the accomplishments of your ancestors, more power to you–but not one goddamned thing they ever accomplished was the result of their melanin levels. (this is a response to the above, and to everyone else that admonished me for “white pride.”) actually, i am proud because my ancestors accomplished what they did _despite_ prejudice against them because of their hair and skin and accents. it wasn’t exactly easy to be an irishman in america when my family came here. many irish, chinese and other minorities came over as indentured servants, and were tricked into basically selling their lives and their childrens lives to companies that wanted to build railroads, etc. as i mentioned before, my italian ancestors were discriminated against. my great-grandmother worked in a sweatshop in new york before living in the ghetto in houston. but you know what? i’d be proud of my heritage no matter what. i’ve got this funny little quirk where i’m happy to be me. i’m happy for my blonde hair, blue eyes (even the bad eyesight – i look cute in glasses), light skin, long fingernails (damn proud of those), and just about anything else about myself, including my sexuality. and while i don’t feel a need to wear a “blonde pride” t-shirt, i certainly can’t see why anyone else shouldn’t. > [@](#): > > The point to those movements, if you will, is to instill in those people the pride everyone should have in being a person on equal footing with everyone else. Does Mr. Straight High School Student need that? I don’t think so, and I don’t think he could rationally defend it. he isn’t part of everyone? maybe he knows that it’s ok (and accepted virtually everywhere) to be him (ie straight), but why shouldn’t he be allowed to say so? so what if he’s not part of the minority? if he feels that he needs or wants to tell people that he’s straight, so fucking what? nowhere in his lawsuit does it ask that the gay or bi students hide who they are. apparently this kid feels that his way of life _is_ being threatened, and while that may not be anywhere close to being true, there’s no reason not to let him wear his stupid shirt. it isn’t hurting anyone except a couple of overly-sensitive pricks. > [@](#): > > There is no mention in the article of anyone wearing “GAY PRIDE” t-shirts. no, not t-shirts. just school sanctioned posters, which, imho opinion, makes this worse. it isn’t just that the school only lets one group express themselves. the school itself is telling kids that one viewpoint is ok and normal and healthy. and i wouldn’t find anything wrong with that if they weren’t censuring this kid based on one crummy t-shirt that doesn’t even say anything hateful. > [@](#): > > I suspect that “white pride” sometimes means “Italian pride” “Irish pride”, or “Scot pride” (snicker ) etc… for some people…I think there have been threads along this line before concerning the notion of “white” ethnicity (or lack there of). > > The notion of “white pride” as a celebration of ancestral heritage seems kind of vague and less meaningful than “Irish pride”, for example. But if that’s what the person means by the expression “white pride”…fine for them then I guess. ok, i guess you’re right. i have irish-french-italian pride (i’m proud to be a snotty, wimpy, alcoholic catholic! 🙂 ). better? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/38 "2001-05-04T14:31:50Z")
re: the blonde pride t shirt guess it would have to say blonde pryde (blonde joke) ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/39 "2001-05-04T14:36:29Z")
Okay, I have to admit a “Blonde Pride” t-shirt would be pretty damn funny. And with all the dumb-blonde jokes out there, I think we might even qualify as an oppressed minority. 😉 [sub]Although the real idiots tend to have dark roots underneath all that blonde hair.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![FunkDaddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@FunkDaddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkDaddy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310/40 "2001-05-04T14:41:24Z")
I realize that this is almost certainly not the case here, but what if the shirt’s meant to be a joke? If I’m hanging out with my gay friends and I’m the only straight guy around, sometimes I’ll get ribbed about not being able to get in on the fun of checking out the guys at a bar. My first impression when I heard ‘straight pride’ was to laugh - it’d come in handy in those situations. I know my friends would get a kick out of it… but we’re talking about a more gay-friendly environment overall. But more to address the OP, as far as I’m concerned, the school **should** (I’m not sure if it does in the USA) have the ability to ban any dress it feels is inappropriate. There’s no rules saying it has to be fair - when folks with Marilyn Manson T-shirts and similar stuff were getting sent home a couple years back, nobody said anything if someone showed up with Backstreet Boys, etc. Some things just aren’t offensive. Wearing a gay pride t-shirt to high school is brave. Wearing a straight pride t-shirt anywhere is either a joke or a bad idea. FD. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hes-not-allowed-to-be-proud-that-hes-straight/64310.md?page=3)