# Hey American Left: Can we stop calling people "trash?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870 "2017-11-17T14:47:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/121 "2017-11-22T05:07:29Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > You are free to be mean and cruel. But the OP is asking we avoid it and I agree. Best I can do is consider refraining from calling people trash if sober second thought suggests they don’t really deserve it and it’s not funny. I expect there will be many instances where it _is_ deserved and _is_ funny, so you and the OP are just going have to take whatever steps you see fit in response, should such circumstances occur. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/122 "2017-11-22T06:02:52Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I think we’re back to: you need to pick a side. You do realize that my first comment was sarcasm, right? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/123 "2017-11-22T19:59:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s about yourself AND about how we contribute to the greater dialogue. If I convince myself Julius Publius Trumpusfanus is trash, then how much will I care if JPT’s rights are taken away? Trash doesn’t have rights. Rights are for real people. Maybe he doesn’t deserve as many rights as real people. Maybe he doesn’t deserve any. After all, he’s just that terrible. > > And if I convince you that he’s trash, maybe you start to think the same way. > > We know propaganda works. Let’s not try to convince ourselves that we can’t be a source or conduit of it and that it can’t go to some dangerous and hateful places. My thinking on the subject is that the second piece, contributing to dialog, follows from the first. Once you believe that the other side is actually human, and not trash, degrading them is harder. If you see them as human, and not trash, you may also try harder to understand what they are saying and why. More understanding is always good. The big sticking point for me are folks like Charles Manson and Osama bin Laden. I’ve decided to try and look at them as broken people who did monstrous things, not monsters. They can’t be fixed and sometimes killing them is the only option, but do it realizing the potential they had at one point and that how they ended up was sad. Hate what they did and what they became but mourn the loss of what they \*could \*have been. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/124 "2017-11-24T12:37:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You do realize that my first comment was sarcasm, right? I do now. I couldn’t hear your tone of voice! ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/125 "2018-01-31T02:15:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Is trash a mean word? Yes it is. Is it worse than the systematic and ingrained sexism and racism that permeates nearly every fabric of society? Not even fucking close. Should the people using the word “shut up” because you “can’t see a way forward?” I don’t think so. Of course as long as we have Freedom of Speech, Hate Speech is also allowed. But calling a birth group trash is evil. I do not see why should men humanize vermin that calls them trash just for belonging to a wrong birth group. Scapegoating men is fashionable, but we are humans no less then women. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/126 "2018-01-31T02:19:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because I think it’s hypocritical to say I can call someone a piece of shit, or a motherfucking bastard, but somehow trash is off limits. Don’t all insults really dehumanize people? I thought that was the point. Of course insults that dehumanize people are acceptable on certain platforms. But he(she) who is insulted has a right to respond in kind. In some way The Internet is The Great Equalizer. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/127 "2018-01-31T02:32:53Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > It’s about yourself AND about how we contribute to the greater dialogue. If I convince myself Julius Publius Trumpusfanus is trash, then how much will I care if JPT’s rights are taken away? Trash doesn’t have rights. Rights are for real people. Maybe he doesn’t deserve as many rights as real people. Maybe he doesn’t deserve any. After all, he’s just that terrible. > > And if I convince you that he’s trash, maybe you start to think the same way. > > We know propaganda works. Let’s not try to convince ourselves that we can’t be a source or conduit of it and that it can’t go to some dangerous and hateful places. Thank you very much for defending our humanity. All Humans are Created Equal. I understand that President Trump has faults. But as long as Liberals publish articles [dehumanizing men](https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/how-if-you-re-a-man-to-deal-with-the-fact-that-you-re-1820410857) or implying that men are [innately monstrous](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/sunday/harassment-men-libido-masculinity.html), every sane man should support President Trump. I understand that #NotAllLiberals and #NotAllFeminists support hate speech. I hope that those who do not support such dehumanizing language would object to being represented by those who do. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/128 "2018-01-31T04:21:21Z")
I think you’re a little blind due to your partisanship. Today President Trump called a reporter a “monster”. A few days ago a congressman made a freudian slip in referring to black people as “slaves”. Eric Trump said that Democrats “aren’t even people”. I can build a much larger list. Shall we discuss the names Obama was called by Republicans? By Trump? Did any of these register with you, or are you ignoring them and focusing on calling your political opponents bad people? For my own part, I don’t understand how any sane _person_ can support Trump. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/129 "2018-01-31T04:30:08Z")
I do not deny that President Trump has faults. I am neither Liberal nor Conservative – even if I was one before. But someone that calls half of Humankind [trash](https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/how-if-you-re-a-man-to-deal-with-the-fact-that-you-re-1820410857), a respectable Liberal newspaper suggesting that men are [innately monstrous](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/sunday/harassment-men-libido-masculinity.html), and Liberals who claim that Presumption of Innocence for men is “victim blaming” are the enemy. Anyone who is against the enemy would be considered a friend by any sane man. I agree with Liberals on many economic issues. But how can any sane man support those who consider them trash and want to take away their Fundamental Human Rights like Presumption of Innocence? PS. Obligatory – #NotAllLiberals share the opinions in articles presented above. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/130 "2018-01-31T04:39:43Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > PS. Obligatory – #NotAllLiberals share the opinions in articles presented above. I think you’d find very few who do, but I do find it the hallmark of right wingers to declare that we do. I think you’re massively overreacting to this and the whole “I’m not a conservative” comes across as disingenuous. Especially when you declare that sane men should support an insane president because of the words of a few. :rolleyes: BTW; where were you when the Republicans were doing all this sort of thing during the Obama Presidency. I don’t recall you ever saying that all sane men should support him due to the hateful and flat out wrong things being said by the right. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/131 "2018-01-31T08:23:26Z")
Just deplorables. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/132 "2018-01-31T08:39:01Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > … every sane man should support President Trump.… I would venture that your idea of “sane” almost certainly does not resemble how most others on SDMB (and the US) imagine it. It is not in any way sane to support a crazy person. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/133 "2018-01-31T09:58:18Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Thank you very much for defending our humanity. All Humans are Created Equal. > > I understand that President Trump has faults. But as long as Liberals publish articles [dehumanizing men](https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/how-if-you-re-a-man-to-deal-with-the-fact-that-you-re-1820410857) or implying that men are [innately monstrous](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/sunday/harassment-men-libido-masculinity.html), every sane man should support President Trump. > > I understand that #NotAllLiberals and #NotAllFeminists support hate speech. I hope that those who do not support such dehumanizing language would object to being represented by those who do. Because some liberals might write bad articles, I should support Trump? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/134 "2018-01-31T11:02:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I have noticed a trend among lefty types of referring to people who do bad things as “trash.” No you haven’t. You saw somebody doing something on Twitter and decided it was a trend. Real lefty types would have halted the conversation and spilled 10 pages of ink on whether it was an insult, and then whether it was a gendered insult, and then discussed what “we” should do about it, and then logged onto Medium to write an elaborate, concerned callout post. With lots of impactful, one-line, sentence-fragment paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/135 "2018-01-31T16:18:53Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No you haven’t. You saw somebody doing something on Twitter and decided it was a trend. > > Real lefty types would have halted the conversation and spilled 10 pages of ink on whether it was an insult, and then whether it was a gendered insult, and then discussed what “we” should do about it, and then logged onto Medium to write an elaborate, concerned callout post. > > With lots of impactful, one-line, sentence-fragment paragraphs. Haha. You’re not wrong. I’m with wonky et. al on this one. One of my coworkers works day in and day out to educate boys and young men on issues of sexual assault and gender-based violence. We were discussing an incident in which he received a disclosure from a young man who had crossed some consent lines and was realizing it for the first time. I didn’t get the details, but the kid was grappling with this “Am I monster?” sort of crisis, which led to the discussion of how we’re shaping the national dialog about sexual assault to offer this scenario where you aren’t merely asked to correct destructive behavior, you’re asked to admit you’re a worthless piece of shit. My friend does not care for this approach. He said, “I don’t like to trashbag human beings.” - so that was the first thing I thought of here. I think my friend and I both have high empathy leading to that conclusion, but dehumanizing people doesn’t make sense strategically, either. If you say people who do X are trash, you immediately alienate the many, probably redeemable people who wouldn’t do X but maybe Y or Z, or who didn’t realize X was all that bad. And the more we say “rapists are trash” the less likely these redeemable folks will see themselves in that caricature. This kid needed education about consent more than he needed social sanction. He had never in his life been pushed to consider the consequences of his actions from the perspective of the victim and that’s all he really needed to get his head straight. The more I learn about this subject, and the social environment and experiences of boys and young men, the more empathy I have for them and the conflicted and confusing messages they have to navigate. At the same time, though, while I feel outraged by the “men are trash” thing, it didn’t get to my friend. He said pushing back against beliefs stemming from other people’s trauma or strategically unhelpful positions is a pointless waste of time. It’s more important to back the coordinated strategy you feel is effective and lead by example. He told me men are doing just fine and not to worry so much about them. I dunno what I think about that part. I hate being misrepresented by hysterical jerks who feel the need to diss men as a whole. And when people insult men, I take it pretty personally. I have fiercely protective feelings about the ones in my life and I get all fighty. But it’s true that every time I’ve tried to argue with people about this, I’ve gotten nowhere. So maybe it’s not the best use of my emotional energy. I don’t know exactly what my strategic direction is from here, but I won’t trash-bag human beings, either. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/136 "2018-01-31T16:26:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because some liberals might write bad articles, I should support Trump? > > Huh? Yeah, the connections is missing. Assuming there’s a problem (and I’m not sure I agree that there is one) Trump is _not_ the solution. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/137 "2018-01-31T16:40:15Z")
But that is typical, and actually a meme on another board. “Both sides are bad, so vote Republican” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/138 "2018-02-02T00:40:49Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Haha. You’re not wrong. > > I’m with wonky et. al on this one. One of my coworkers works day in and day out to educate boys and young men on issues of sexual assault and gender-based violence. We were discussing an incident in which he received a disclosure from a young man who had crossed some consent lines and was realizing it for the first time. I didn’t get the details, but the kid was grappling with this “Am I monster?” sort of crisis, which led to the discussion of how we’re shaping the national dialog about sexual assault to offer this scenario where you aren’t merely asked to correct destructive behavior, you’re asked to admit you’re a worthless piece of shit. My friend does not care for this approach. He said, “I don’t like to trashbag human beings.” - so that was the first thing I thought of here. > > I think my friend and I both have high empathy leading to that conclusion, but dehumanizing people doesn’t make sense strategically, either. If you say people who do X are trash, you immediately alienate the many, probably redeemable people who wouldn’t do X but maybe Y or Z, or who didn’t realize X was all that bad. And the more we say “rapists are trash” the less likely these redeemable folks will see themselves in that caricature. > > This kid needed education about consent more than he needed social sanction. He had never in his life been pushed to consider the consequences of his actions from the perspective of the victim and that’s all he really needed to get his head straight. The more I learn about this subject, and the social environment and experiences of boys and young men, the more empathy I have for them and the conflicted and confusing messages they have to navigate. > > At the same time, though, while I feel outraged by the “men are trash” thing, it didn’t get to my friend. He said pushing back against beliefs stemming from other people’s trauma or strategically unhelpful positions is a pointless waste of time. It’s more important to back the coordinated strategy you feel is effective and lead by example. He told me men are doing just fine and not to worry so much about them. > > I dunno what I think about that part. I hate being misrepresented by hysterical jerks who feel the need to diss men as a whole. And when people insult men, I take it pretty personally. I have fiercely protective feelings about the ones in my life and I get all fighty. But it’s true that every time I’ve tried to argue with people about this, I’ve gotten nowhere. So maybe it’s not the best use of my emotional energy. > > I don’t know exactly what my strategic direction is from here, but I won’t trash-bag human beings, either. If the motives were to right wrong people would follow your approach. However, many motives are rooted in the desire for power. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870/139 "2018-02-03T14:26:37Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > You’re letting the media’s skewed, selective view poison your thoughts. The exceptions are not the norm. Delayed response, but I have to respond to this. No, I’m seeing how real people act. As in, people I had to defriend on Facebook. As in people I interact with online everyday. As in every single person I’ve ever talked to who says they support Trump. As in all the stuff written directly by Trump supporters and then the people agreeing with them. I’ve also encountered people on /r/The\_Donald, and 0 Trump supporters who don’t support that subreddit. The bad people are not overrepresented. They are the core base. That’s not to say there aren’t exceptions. And, again, I reserve the concept of “trash” to the worst of the worst. But I have to acknowledge that people are just not as good as I previously thought. The guy who fired my dad is a Trump supporting guy who has repeatedly threatened to kill people over the phone. He makes up lies about people he hates to get rid of them. He buys out people to make some pretty bad stuff go way. He is trash, with zero redeeming values as a human being. He is, at his core, irredeemable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-american-left-can-we-stop-calling-people-trash/801870.md?page=6)