# Hey antivaxers, suck on this **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290 "2011-07-25T18:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/41 "2011-07-29T16:22:22Z")
> [@pikey\_pete](#): > > i want to develop a vaccine for ignorance. not something long and difficult…like education. no, i want to invent a one-stop-shot that cures ignorance. Like a gun labeled “Candy”? ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/42 "2011-07-30T02:43:41Z")
Yes, but then, due to the vaccine, the strain is forced to mutate, and it does. Only this time, it’s 100% fatal and 100% communicable, and after it kills you, you don’t stay dead. In fact, you then get up and start craving the flesh of those who are not infected, causing you to attack the nearest healthy person within arm’s reach, then they get it from a scratch or a bite, and they die, then reanimate, transmit to 2 others, and on and on and on. In fact, such outbreaks would most certainly begin in hospitals, who, after failing to realize the threat, do not enact the correct decon and sterilization protocols, and allow the disease to spread. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/43 "2011-07-30T04:20:14Z")
[xkcd shows us how to properly handle a zombie virus break-out.](http://www.xkcd.com/734/) ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/44 "2011-07-30T05:23:18Z")
NOTE: I AM NOT AN ANITVAXER OF CHILDREN. Ok, hope that works. Anyway… It has been proven in dogs (and I think cats) that the vaccine schedule pushed by most vets and all vaccine companies is actually at the best useless and at the worst dangerous. Why would this not be true of kids - is this a question that can be answered in the Pit, or do I have to start a thread elsewhere. And to the first person that says that children are not dogs - duh. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/45 "2011-07-30T12:28:13Z")
Hey, guys, I was just swinging through here. I got this one. > [@curlcoat](#): > > It has been proven in dogs (and I think cats) that the vaccine schedule pushed by most vets and all vaccine companies is actually at the best useless and at the worst dangerous. Cccccccccite? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/46 "2011-07-30T16:54:15Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It has been proven in dogs (and I think cats) that the vaccine schedule pushed by most vets and all vaccine companies is actually at the best useless and at the worst dangerous. I am not a veterinarian, but seeing as how vaccine-preventable diseases like rabies and distemper have been greatly reduced by vaccination of dogs, “useless” is not the term I’d use to describe the canine immunization schedule. For instance, the incidence of fatal or severely debilitating diseases in dogs like rabies and distemper has been vastly reduced by vaccination. How exactly is that “useless”? As a dog owner I’m aware of some controversy over whether they don’t need to get boosters as often as now recommended. My impression is that this is more an issue of money than vaccine side effects, but if you’ve got good evidence to the contrary, a thread discussing pet vaccination would be nice. > [@](#): > > Why would this not be true of kids - is this a question that can be answered in the Pit, or do I have to start a thread elsewhere. This sounds like the “too many too soon” argument against the pediatric vaccination schedule, which [has been debunked](http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/autism/overburdening.cfm) repeatedly. _“…advances in science have improved our vaccines. While children are receiving more immunizations by the age of two, they are actually receiving less antigens, or bits of the vaccine that would challenge the immune system. Overall numbers of antigens have fallen from about 3,041 in 1980 to approximately 153 today. Compare this number to the trillions of bacteria infants are exposed to, and form an immune response against, the moment they are born. Babies’ immune systems are well-equipped to handle not only those bacteria but many more additional, external threats.”_ In other words, the number of antigens presented to infant and child immune systems through vaccines is a tiny fraction of what they’re exposed to on a daily basis (bacterial and viral antigens, allergenic substances etc.). Their immune systems are not being “overwhelmed” by vaccines as the antivaxers would have you believe. I have not seen compelling evidence that dogs and cats are different. Given the slop my dogs have gotten into on a regular basis, it seems that they’re well-adapted to exposure to a sea of antigens. I’m grateful that the bad ones that formerly killed or damaged them (like those of distemper) have been controlled by vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/47 "2011-07-30T17:32:53Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I am getting the shingles vaccine as soon as I possibly can. The prospect of agonizing pain, potentially lasting months or years after the shingles outbreak, scares the crap out of me. Not to mention the damage it can do to the eye if you’re unfortunate enough to have it there! A friend of mine got chicken pox as a young adult and was blinded temporarily. In addition, there’s that business concerning shingles. One person I worked with looked like he been hit in the forehead with a baseball bat, but there was no bruising. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Parenchyma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Parenchyma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parenchyma)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/48 "2011-07-30T18:30:42Z")
I know some people who have really suffered with shingles (mostly in the 30-to-50 age group) so I told my PCP I would like to get the vax. She said insurance won’t pay for it until you turn 60, so I would have to be charged out of pocket for it. It costs over $300 so I’m still just hoping I don’t get shingles for a good few more years. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/49 "2011-07-30T18:31:20Z")
Continuing the pet hijack - my cat only gets the legally required rabies vaccine. She is susceptible to vaccine related sarcoma ([Vaccine-associated sarcoma - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine-associated_sarcoma)). My vet tells me that that since we’ve removed one tumor (from a three month old kitten, still benign with clear margins) she is higher risk (there seems to be a genetic/reoccurring link). She’s an indoor cat and an only cat (there is a dog as well). ---
**Author:** ![Parenchyma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Parenchyma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parenchyma)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/50 "2011-07-30T18:42:31Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Continuing the pet hijack - my cat only gets the legally required rabies vaccine. She is susceptible to vaccine related sarcoma ([Vaccine-associated sarcoma - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine-associated_sarcoma)). My vet tells me that that since we’ve removed one tumor (from a three month old kitten, still benign with clear margins) she is higher risk (there seems to be a genetic/reoccurring link). She’s an indoor cat and an only cat (there is a dog as well). In my state the rabies law includes an exemption for animals who are at life-threatening risk from vaccines. These cases are extremely rare, like IMHA or ITP (immune-mediated hemolytic anemia or thrombocytopenia). A couple of times I have written letters for owners citing the rabies statute so that even though they’ll never get another vaccination, they can still get their dog license. Your vet might be able to write such a letter for you, though vax sarcomas are a longer-term and not as immediate a risk as ITP. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/51 "2011-07-30T20:50:04Z")
> [@Parenchyma](#): > > In my state the rabies law includes an exemption for animals who are at life-threatening risk from vaccines. These cases are extremely rare, like IMHA or ITP (immune-mediated hemolytic anemia or thrombocytopenia). A couple of times I have written letters for owners citing the rabies statute so that even though they’ll never get another vaccination, they can still get their dog license. > > Your vet might be able to write such a letter for you, though vax sarcomas are a longer-term and not as immediate a risk as ITP. The rabies vaccine seems to be the lowest risk, and can be administered nasally. Its the feline leukemia that has the highest risk (and was the most likely cause of her first lump). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/52 "2011-07-30T20:57:49Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Cccccccccite? I’m not sure there is one online - you can start [here](http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm), a little less than half way down the page for the article by Dr Jean Dodds, and then work on the references listed there. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I am not a veterinarian, but seeing as how vaccine-preventable diseases like rabies and distemper have been greatly reduced by vaccination of dogs, “useless” is not the term I’d use to describe the canine immunization schedule. There is a huge difference between giving those vaccines and “boosting” them once a year as most vets and vaccine companies want you to do. When it comes time for your dog’s annual “booster”, get his titer tested instead and very likely you will see he doesn’t need any more shots. > [@](#): > > As a dog owner I’m aware of some controversy over whether they don’t need to get boosters as often as now recommended. My impression is that this is more an issue of money than vaccine side effects, but if you’ve got good evidence to the contrary, a thread discussing pet vaccination would be nice.This sounds like the “too many too soon” argument against the pediatric vaccination schedule, which [has been debunked](http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/autism/overburdening.cfm) repeatedly. There is all kinds of evidence but as I said above I’m not sure it’s online - there’s lots of stuff like the link **Dangerosa** provided, but links to the actual studies are what I don’t think exists. > [@](#): > > _“…advances in science have improved our vaccines. While children are receiving more immunizations by the age of two, they are actually receiving less antigens, or bits of the vaccine that would challenge the immune system. Overall numbers of antigens have fallen from about 3,041 in 1980 to approximately 153 today. Compare this number to the trillions of bacteria infants are exposed to, and form an immune response against, the moment they are born. **Babies’ immune systems are well-equipped to handle not only those bacteria but many more additional, external threats.** ”_ Bolding mine - lacking a study on this, wouldn’t it make sense that the baby’s immune system can handle attacks from things like the flu and the chicken pox? I also wouldn’t like this if they were talking about dogs - “It is important to remember that each and every vaccine added to the list of recommended immunizations will save the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States.” While this is strictly true, it looks like scare tactics to me and causes me to distrust the rest. > [@](#): > > I have not seen compelling evidence that dogs and cats are different. Given the slop my dogs have gotten into on a regular basis, it seems that they’re well-adapted to exposure to a sea of antigens. I’m grateful that the bad ones that formerly killed or damaged them (like those of distemper) have been controlled by vaccination. Well, the evidence is out there. The difference may be that pet owners are encouraged to re-vaccinate their animals every year for life, and parents aren’t? As for the slop your dogs get into, it’s quite likely that is stuff they are physically able to deal with whether they are vaccinated or not - for example, salmonella is not the threat to a healthy dog that it is to a human. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/53 "2011-07-30T22:19:58Z")
Babies “handle” many vaccine preventable diseases by getting really sick from them. Younger babies are particularly susceptible to certain illnesses. Whooping cough, for example, might be unpleasant in an eleven year old. A three month old baby will likely be hospitalized and watched extremely closely to make sure she isn’t turning blue and dying. Their immune systems can deal with a killed virus but have a very hard time coping with an actual full blown case of many diseases. You want a vaccinated baby. You do not want a baby with measles or pertussis or hib or chicken pox or the flu. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/54 "2011-07-31T14:17:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > “It is important to remember that each and every vaccine added to the list of recommended immunizations will save the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States.” > > While this is strictly true, it looks like scare tactics to me and causes me to distrust the rest. Sorry, but that’s what immunization is mainly (but not exclusively) about. Would you prefer the following: “It is important to remember that each and every vaccine added to the list of recommended immunizations will keep your child from getting miserably ill for at least a week or two, infecting Granny who’s on chemotherapy and requiring you to take time off work for doctor visits and home care, oh and also save the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States who are unfortunate enough to be among the minority who experience more than the usual symptoms”? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/55 "2011-08-01T06:51:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Sorry, but that’s what immunization is mainly (but not exclusively) about. I have trouble believing that vaccines for chicken pox and the flu save a significant number of children from death and/or disability, which is why I think the way that is stated looks like scare tactics. > [@](#): > > Would you prefer the following: “It is important to remember that each and every vaccine added to the list of recommended immunizations will keep your child from getting miserably ill for at least a week or two, infecting Granny who’s on chemotherapy and requiring you to take time off work for doctor visits and home care, oh and also save the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States who are unfortunate enough to be among the minority who experience more than the usual symptoms”? I would be closer to the truth at least. I’m just saying that I think these things should be presented without bias or exaggeration, so people can make informed decisions. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/56 "2011-08-01T14:09:07Z")
“the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States.” How would one restate this to reduce the ‘bias or exaggeration’? It is true that huge numbers of children don’t die from chicken pox in the U.S. but reducing the number of deaths or disabilities is the major reason for widespread vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/57 "2011-08-01T15:44:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I have trouble believing that vaccines for chicken pox and the flu save a significant number of children from death and/or disability, which is why I think the way that is stated looks like scare tactics. > [@CDC](#): > > Prior to the availability of varicella vaccine, approximately 4 million cases of varicella occurred each year in the U.S. Although varicella is frequently perceived as a disease that does not cause serious illness, especially among healthy children, many persons are not aware that an average of 10,600 (range 8,000-16,500) hospitalizations and 100 to 150 deaths due to chickenpox occurred every year in the United States before the varicella vaccine became available. The majority of the severe complications and deaths occurred in previously healthy individuals. > > The availability of the varicella vaccine beginning in 1995 and its subsequent widespread use has had a major impact on reducing varicella disease. In states consistently reporting cases to the national surveillance system, rates of varicella in 2004 were 53%-88% lower compared to the pre-vaccine era. In two sites with active surveillance for chickenpox, incidence declined across all age groups, with an overall decline of ~90% from 1995-2005. Chickenpox-related hospitalizations in 2002 were 88% less compared with rates in 1994-1995; in addition, the age-adjusted rates for varicella deaths dropped 66% from 1990-2001. Deaths declined more than 90% among children 1-4 years of age and more than 70% among persons younger than 50 years of age. [Link](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/vac-faqs-gen.htm) (last section) > [@American Academy of Pediatrics](#): > > During the 12 years of the mostly 1-dose US varicella vaccination program, the annual average mortality rate for varicella listed as the underlying cause declined 88%, from 0.41 per million population in 1990–1994 to 0.05 per million population in 2005–2007. The decline occurred in all age groups, and there was an extremely high reduction among children and adolescents younger than 20 years (97%) and among subjects younger than 50 years overall (96%). In the last 6 years analyzed (2002–2007), a total of 3 deaths per age range were reported among children aged 1 to 4 and 5 to 9 years, compared with an annual average of 13 and 16 deaths, respectively, during the prevaccine years. [Link](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2011/07/21/peds.2010-3385) Still, I’m sure your gut feelings are more accurate and reliable than massive peer-reviewed studies and the Centers for Disease Control. I mean, what do they know, right? Why do science at all, really? We can just rely on what we reckon is true! So much easier, quicker, and cheaper. And when has that approach ever steered us wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/58 "2011-08-01T16:15:54Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I have trouble believing that vaccines for chicken pox and the flu save a significant number of children from death and/or disability, which is why I think the way that is stated looks like scare tactics. According to the CDC, in recent years millions of children have contracted influenza annually, with 20,000 hospitalizations a year and an annual death rate ranging from 46 to 153 (340 died in the year in which H1N1 flu was rampant). I have not seen figures on relatively rare but devastating influenza complications like encephalopathy (permanent brain damage can result), Reyes’ syndrome and Guillain-Barre syndrome. Is the CDC employing “scare tactics” by mentioning this, in your view? Do you think it’s reasonable for parents to be made aware of the benefits of getting flu vaccine for their kids, and of the potential consequences of not doing so? If not, how would you go about informing them? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/59 "2011-08-01T17:41:43Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Continuing the pet hijack - my cat only gets the legally required rabies vaccine. She is susceptible to vaccine related sarcoma ([Vaccine-associated sarcoma - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine-associated_sarcoma)). My vet tells me that that since we’ve removed one tumor (from a three month old kitten, still benign with clear margins) she is higher risk (there seems to be a genetic/reoccurring link). She’s an indoor cat and an only cat (there is a dog as well). With your pets, knock yourself out not getting them vaccinated for anything but rabies. Especially if your pet is an indoor pet that doesn’t have much contact with others of the same species. Your pet is unlikely to start or carry on an epidemic that way. If your kid gets chicken pox, though, it’s another story altogether. That is likely to be transmitted and affect other people. Your right to swing your arms, my nose, and so on. If chicken pox or the flu were likely to just make your kid miserable for a while, I’d just think you were a lousy parent for letting your kid suffer from a preventable disease . But the fact that these diseases can be transmitted to others makes it worse than that (this does NOT, of course, apply to parents who don’t get their kids vaccinated because the kid is allergic to the vaccine, or something like that). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/60 "2011-08-02T02:45:34Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > “the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States.” > > How would one restate this to reduce the ‘bias or exaggeration’? The way **Jackmannii** did above. The way that article states it makes it sound like if a child doesn’t get a chickenpox shot, there is a good chance he will die or be disabled. > [@Smeghead](#): > > Still, I’m sure your gut feelings are more accurate and reliable than massive peer-reviewed studies and the Centers for Disease Control. I mean, what do they know, right? Why do science at all, really? We can just rely on what we reckon is true! So much easier, quicker, and cheaper. And when has that approach ever steered us wrong? Well, all that was interesting and I was going to respond, but then you decided to be an asshole for no real reason, so —\> bite me. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > According to the CDC, in recent years millions of children have contracted influenza annually, with 20,000 hospitalizations a year and an annual death rate ranging from 46 to 153 (340 died in the year in which H1N1 flu was rampant). I have not seen figures on relatively rare but devastating influenza complications like encephalopathy (permanent brain damage can result), Reyes’ syndrome and Guillain-Barre syndrome. > > Is the CDC employing “scare tactics” by mentioning this, in your view? > > Do you think it’s reasonable for parents to be made aware of the benefits of getting flu vaccine for their kids, and of the potential consequences of not doing so? If not, how would you go about informing them? You too. I am simply not in the mood to engage assholes today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290.md?page=4)