# Hey antivaxers, suck on this **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290 "2011-07-25T18:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/61 "2011-08-02T02:49:00Z")
Welcome to the internet. Here are your big girl panties. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/62 "2011-08-02T02:53:23Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Welcome to the internet. Here are your big girl panties. Continuing to be an asshole I see. And showing you cannot read/and or understand simple English, as I said I am not in the mood for assholes today, not that I am new to the internet and flame wars and the millions of jerkwads floating about. OTOH, if it makes you feel better that you’ve “won” something, go right ahead, doesn’t bother me a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/63 "2011-08-02T12:38:37Z")
Well, might I suggest that in the future, if you wish to post speculative counterfactual bullshit that is easily disproven, without the annoyance of people telling you that it’s bullshit, then perhaps the BBQ Pit of the SDMB is not the ideal place for you to attempt it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/64 "2011-08-02T14:21:58Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > With your pets, knock yourself out not getting them vaccinated for anything but rabies. Especially if your pet is an indoor pet that doesn’t have much contact with others of the same species. Your pet is unlikely to start or carry on an epidemic that way. > > If your kid gets chicken pox, though, it’s another story altogether. That is likely to be transmitted and affect other people. Your right to swing your arms, my nose, and so on. > > If chicken pox or the flu were likely to just make your kid miserable for a while, I’d just think you were a lousy parent for letting your kid suffer from a preventable disease . But the fact that these diseases can be transmitted to others makes it worse than that (this does NOT, of course, apply to parents who don’t get their kids vaccinated because the kid is allergic to the vaccine, or something like that). Yep, my kids are fully vaccinated. The dog is fully vaccinated. My cat has a contraindication where the vaccine is worse than the risk of disease - so we lower the risk of disease by keeping her inside and vaccinating the dog (for the cross species stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/65 "2011-08-02T14:28:40Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Well, might I suggest that in the future, if you wish to post speculative counterfactual bullshit that is easily disproven, without the annoyance of people telling you that it’s bullshit, then perhaps the BBQ Pit of the SDMB is not the ideal place for you to attempt it. There are lots of other boards where antivaxer BS goes unchallenged. On some of them, they’ll even ban people for trying to introduce some facts and logic into the debate. I suggest you go to one of them if you want that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/66 "2011-08-02T14:30:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Continuing to be an asshole I see. . When everyone around you seems to be an asshole, it is perhaps time to find the common denominator and take a good look in the mirror. In other words, when you’re both vocally opinionated as well as ignorant, it’s a deadly combination. Next time **curlcoat** , don’t blurt out whatever you’re thinking before checking the facts first. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/67 "2011-08-02T14:42:54Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > The way **Jackmannii** did above. The way that article states it makes it sound like if a child doesn’t get a chickenpox shot, there is a good chance he will die or be disabled. And that’s true. There’s a much greater chance he will avoid that fate if he gets the vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/68 "2011-08-02T15:50:19Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > There are lots of other boards where antivaxer BS goes unchallenged. On some of them, they’ll even ban people for trying to introduce some facts and logic into the debate. I suggest you go to one of them if you want that sort of thing. I assume that was aimed at curlcoat, rather than me? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/69 "2011-08-02T15:57:25Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I assume that was aimed at curlcoat, rather than me? Yes, it was intended to augment what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/70 "2011-08-02T17:03:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > The way **Jackmannii** did above. The way that article states it makes it sound like if a child doesn’t get a chickenpox shot, there is a good chance he will die or be disabled.\ I don’t see where you’re getting that from what **Jackmannii** has said. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/71 "2011-08-02T17:12:10Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Well, might I suggest that in the future, if you wish to post speculative counterfactual bullshit that is easily disproven, without the annoyance of people telling you that it’s bullshit, then perhaps the BBQ Pit of the SDMB is not the ideal place for you to attempt it. That would be good advice, had I said anything like that. In actual fact, I said nothing like that. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > When everyone around you seems to be an asshole, it is perhaps time to find the common denominator and take a good look in the mirror. > > In other words, when you’re both vocally opinionated as well as ignorant, it’s a deadly combination. Next time **curlcoat** , don’t blurt out whatever you’re thinking before checking the facts first. :rolleyes: The reality is, there are folks on this board who will jump down the throat of anyone they think might hold a view counter to any of the super precious ones held here. Since I didn’t do that (make antivaxer claims) here, those jumping on me now are assholes. As are you, since I didn’t make any claims about “everyone” being one. > [@Musicat](#): > > And that’s true. There’s a much greater chance he will avoid that fate if he gets the vaccination. What is true? That there is a good chance a child will die or be disabled in he gets chicken pox? > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t see where you’re getting that from what **Jackmannii** has said. I didn’t get that from what he said. Doesn’t anyone actually read these threads? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/72 "2011-08-02T17:32:09Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What is true? That there is a good chance a child will die or be disabled in he gets chicken pox? Are you a betting person? Are you willing to be a part of the [1465 deaths?](http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/decline-chickenpox-deaths) Is that too low a risk to be important to you or your child, especially when it is so easily avoided? > [@](#): > > [US only]…from 1990 through 2001, 1,465 death records listed chickenpox as the cause or a contributing cause of death. Chickenpox-related deaths averaged 145 per year from 1990 through 1994 (before the vaccine was licensed) and declined to 66 per year from 1999 through 2001 (when the vaccine was being used). Use of the vaccine appears to have cut the death rate in half, and this doesn’t consider the ones who only got sick. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/73 "2011-08-02T17:55:05Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Since I didn’t do that (make antivaxer claims) here, those jumping on me now are assholes. Previously, on “As **curlcoat** Turns”: > [@curlcoat](#): > > It has been proven in dogs (and I think cats) that the vaccine schedule pushed by most vets and all vaccine companies is actually at the best useless and at the worst dangerous. Why would this not be true of kids - is this a question that can be answered in the Pit, or do I have to start a thread elsewhere. > [@curlcoat](#): > > “It is important to remember that each and every vaccine added to the list of recommended immunizations will save the lives and/or reduce the number of disabilities of children in the United States.” > > While this is strictly true, it looks like scare tactics to me and causes me to distrust the rest. So we have 1) the allegation that the veterinary vaccine schedule is at least useless and at worse dangerous, with a bonus extrapolation suggesting that the same may be true of pediatric vaccination, and 2) dismissal of good evidence from those knowledgeable about immunization using the justification that, well, it sounds like scare tactics so nothing these people say is acceptable. No matter how indignant **curlcoat** is about how she IS NOT AN ANTI-VAXER, her mindset is both foolish and strongly associated with the antivax cult. (just Google “vaccine” and “scare tactics” and check out the garbage that pops up). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/74 "2011-08-02T18:03:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > :rolleyes: The reality is, there are folks on this board who will jump down the throat of anyone they think might hold a view counter to any of the super precious ones held here. If, by “super precious” views, you mean “scientifically supported, evidence based truth”, then yes. Yes I do. And will continue to do so. Fighting ignorance and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/75 "2011-08-02T18:06:53Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > :rolleyes: The reality is, there are folks on this board who will jump down the throat of anyone they think might hold a view counter to any of the super precious ones held here. You are entitled to your own views. You are not entitled to your own set of facts. The facts have now been pointed out to you. You should now say “thank you” and shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/76 "2011-08-02T18:07:05Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And that’s true. There’s a much greater chance he will avoid that fate if he gets the vaccination. I’m not an anti-vaccination person at all, but I do have to ask, greater than what? The general mortality rate for chicken pox is something like 6.7/100,000. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/77 "2011-08-02T18:15:53Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I’m not an anti-vaccination person at all, but I do have to ask, greater than what? The general mortality rate for chicken pox is something like 6.7/100,000. Yeah, while people do die of chicken pox, and there is some risk of disfigurement and other issues (infertility in men, IIRC), its a pretty low risk disease. That doesn’t mean that vaccination is a bad idea (my kids are vaccinated), just that choosing not to vaccinate against it isn’t really upping your odds of death much. It goes from “very extremely low risk” to “extremely low risk.” Like a lot of diseases we vaccinate for, often you aren’t vaccinating for yourself. You are vaccinating to create herd immunity - to keep the people who have greater risk of complications or death from being exposed. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/78 "2011-08-02T18:30:03Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It has been proven in dogs (and I think cats) that the vaccine schedule pushed by most vets and all vaccine companies is actually at the best useless and at the worst dangerous. Why would this not be true of kids Why would it be? It’s not the same people who are creating vaccine schedules for kids and dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/79 "2011-08-02T18:34:05Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I’m not an anti-vaccination person at all, but I do have to ask, greater than what? The general mortality rate for chicken pox is something like 6.7/100,000. See post #72. The mortality rate is less than half of what it used to be, pre-vaccination. A mortality rate isn’t the whole story. I had chicken pox as a kid, and I would have preferred not to, even if the penalty was I had to go to school for a week instead. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290/80 "2011-08-02T19:57:00Z")
There is also some evidence, although the jury is still sort of out, that vaccination for chicken pox in childhood will prevent shingles in older people, since the virus will not stick around in the nerves, as it does with the natural infection. And even if chicken pox were guaranteed to be a completely benign disease (which it isn’t, with about 100 deaths per year prior to vaccine) shingles certainly is not, and affects a population that can be even more vulnerable than children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-antivaxers-suck-on-this/590290.md?page=5)