# Hey Apple Computer..hypocrisy much? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694 "2004-06-29T13:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/21 "2004-06-29T20:30:42Z")
Oh, wait. Panther? Was there a Cheetah in there somewhere? Do you see why I hate this O/S naming convention? Maybe I should run “bobcat.” ```auto ``` ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/22 "2004-06-29T20:37:30Z")
Cheetah – Mac OS X version 10.0 to 10.0.4 Puma – Mac OS X version 10.1 to 10.1.5 Jaguar – Mac OS X version 10.2 to 10.2.8 Panther – Mac OS X version 10.3 to 10.3.4 (presently) Tiger will be the 10.4 series. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/23 "2004-06-30T07:23:31Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > Your point would be? > Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I already said I’m a Mac user (as are several of the posters in this thread). What the hell does the OP have to do with the development of Windows, or do you just feel the need to slam Gates at any conceivable opportunity? > > Grow up. A Mac user not getting a dig in on Gates?!? 😕 If we ever meet the first 2 rounds are on me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/24 "2004-06-30T16:56:09Z")
Yeah, most of us in this thread are Mac users. We do pit our own, and Apple richly deserves every applecore we’re hurling at them in here. (If you’re at all curious about Mac folks, one of the most important things to understand is that our loyalty is to the Macintosh OS, not to Apple Computer Inc., a company which only intermittently seems to understand what it is that they did right, and what was/is right about it.) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/25 "2004-06-30T17:06:43Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Yeah, most of us in this thread are Mac users. We do pit our own, and Apple richly deserves every applecore we’re hurling at them in here. > > (If you’re at all curious about Mac folks, one of the most important things to understand is that our loyalty is to the Macintosh OS, not to Apple Computer Inc., a company which only intermittently seems to understand what it is that they did right, and what was/is right about it.) I grew up in the Apple IIc and then got turned onto the Commodore 64. (hey, it had Lemonade Stand!) These were both after I damn near wore out my first Vic-20. After that, I learned DOS (around 3rd grade or so, may have been during the summer) so just never had the Mac bug. I know it’s a great system for video editing, as my niece has shown by making a commercial. Then she learned that the cd wouldn’t play on XP as it’s obviously not compatable. Nor would it play on any computer outside of her school. She quickly learned the value of working on a dominant platform that will most likely be more available for use. Now, get a program running that will run Mac software on PC’s and you’ll be in charge of the universe by Monday. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/26 "2004-06-30T17:20:07Z")
According to Dave Hyatt (Apple’s lead developer for their Safari web browser), a fundamental difference between Konfabulator and Dashboard is that Konfabulator’s widgets are written in Javascript, while Dashboard’s widgets are written in HTML – that is, Dashboard’s widgets can theoretically leverage the entire gauntlet of HTML/XML/CSS/JavaScript/Flash/etc. technologies. If that’s the case, then I can see why Apple couldn’t just license Konfabulator as-is – they’re approaching the same issue from a different architectural direction. > [@AHunter3](#): > > (If you’re at all curious about Mac folks, one of the most important things to understand is that our loyalty is to the Macintosh OS, not to Apple Computer Inc., a company which only intermittently seems to understand what it is that they did right, and what was/is right about it.) I prefer to think of it simply as saying Mac users are more discriminating and demanding. 🙂 When things suck, we bitch about it, no matter where the suckitude comes from… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/27 "2004-06-30T17:20:51Z")
Yo, \*\* ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/28 "2004-06-30T17:25:03Z")
**Duffer** : [MacOS on PCs](http://www.thefreecountry.com/emulators/macintosh.shtml) And, re: the video CD —she didn’t burn it in the right format. Macs have no difficulty burning ISO/Joliet CDs or ind-standard VCDs. You are correct that if one is going to use a nonmajority platform one must learn how to make media, file formats, and so forth accessible to those who do. (Although you _could_ acquire the software that would allow you to read Macintosh HFS/HSF+ media on a PC; but realistic Mac folks don’t anticipate that of PC users. Just as folks who love Lotus WordPro don’t expect Word users to have format converters on hand and realize that they’re the ones who have to convert the documents.) The Mac is indeed a great platform for video editing. (And word processing. And spreadsheet work. And photoshopping. And database design. And web browsing. And emailing. And programming.) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/29 "2004-07-01T13:05:26Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > According to Dave Hyatt (Apple’s lead developer for their Safari web browser), a fundamental difference between Konfabulator and Dashboard is that Konfabulator’s widgets are written in Javascript, while Dashboard’s widgets are written in HTML – that is, Dashboard’s widgets can theoretically leverage the entire gauntlet of HTML/XML/CSS/JavaScript/Flash/etc. technologies. There is a pretty good overview of that point [here](http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/dashboard_vs_konfabulator). Pretty good as in “I may be re-thinking some of my original reaction ro Dashboard”. Apparently Arlo Rose is still [pissed](http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5250692.html) though. To sum…my reaction to Dashboard may have been a common reaction (“hey…they ripped off Konfabulator”), it appears that the story may be a bit more complicated, though. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694/30 "2004-07-01T18:32:39Z")
Yeah, I was just about to post a link to that same essay. DaringFireball managed to convince me that Dashboard is _not_ a rip-off of Konfabulator after all. They have the same goal, but take vastly different paths to get there. Here’s a [concurring view](http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=885006094631&r=907004594631) from one of the developers at Omni Software: > [@](#): > > In fact, a couple years ago we were contacted by a couple different companies that had exactly the desktop-widgets-as-tiny-web-pages idea and wanted to talk to us about licensing our rendering engine and how to add additional Javascript hooks. (This was before WebCore.) One of those companies already had a product for Windows that used the embedable IE widget and wanted to port to OS X. (Neither of them decided to go ahead.) > > In **no way** is any of this even remotely a new idea. In no way is Konfabulator’s existing code and technology (which is what Apple would theoretically be paying for) **at all interesting.** Anyone who used WebCore could do so much better. He also suggests that Dashboard can only help “raise the tide” for all Mac developers: > [@](#): > > How many people buy Macs because of Konfabulator? (gotta be close to zero.) How many people will buy Macs because of the addition of a cool OS feature like Dashboard? (not many, but more than the first number). How many existing Mac users are going to upgrade to Tiger because of Konfabulator? (zero - no reason to) How many existing Mac users are going to upgrade to Tiger because of Dashboard? (lots) > > So, for **all other** developers, who are primarily interested in having more potential customers, and many of which will want to use APIs in Tiger (so potential customers are measured by # of users who upgrade)… is it better for those developers that Apple build Dashboard? Heck yeah. I can understand Arlo being pissed off, but surely he must have known from the start that Apple was going to fill in the “Desk accessories” hole sooner or later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-apple-computer-hypocrisy-much/252694.md?page=1)