# Hey, Barking Spider, there is a difference between "conservative" and "bigot"... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041 "2002-06-09T00:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/41 "2002-06-09T17:12:25Z")
Yeah, but guns still kill people. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/42 "2002-06-09T19:02:14Z")
So we have statistics that show that blacks are more likely to be arrested and convicted of crimes. No evidence that indicates that blacks are more likely to _commit_ crimes. If you think white people and black people are treated equally by the police and courts then you’re living in a dream world. Anyone have any stats about who is most likely to be a victim of a violent crime by an African American? The vast majority of victims are black. _If you’re white, the person most likely to kill you is another white person._ The was the original point I tried to make on the other thread. To me, the most racist thing that BS wrote was blaming affirmative action for a poor education. First of all, it doesn’t make sense, since affirmative action doesn’t apply until you reach the university level. I have never heard anyone claim that the presence of non-whites in a classroom will hamper your ability to learn. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/43 "2002-06-09T21:25:35Z")
> [@](#): > > First of all, it doesn’t make sense, since affirmative action doesn’t apply until you reach the university level. I have never heard anyone claim that the presence of non-whites in a classroom will hamper your ability to learn. The tired argument goes something like this: Only incompetents are the beneficiaries of Affirmative Action. Because I’m black, I’m most likely a beneficiary of Affirmative Action. Thus, I’m incompetent. So yes, in a thread about terrorism, he brings in both Affirmative Action and welfare. It would laughable if he didn’t have posters like **Bandanaman** patting him on the back. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/44 "2002-06-09T22:50:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > I’m saying never mind statistics, punishing innocent people is always a bad idea- and yes, profiling is punishment. No, it’s not. > [@](#): > > I live in Oklahoma, and I remember that after the Murrah Federal Building was bombed a lot of people blamed “ay-rabs”- a man in Norman was beaten. When the bomber was cought absolutely no one suggested profiling white men, white guys were not dragged from their homes and beaten. Are you really unable to distinguish between profiling and beatings? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/45 "2002-06-09T22:57:15Z")
The point, Ryan, was that the man was beaten because he fit the profile of the suspected bombers: Arabs. A few such incidents also occurred after 9/11, as you will recall. That’s not quite the same thing as allowing the government to use racial profiling as a basis for investigation or detention, but it points out the hazards of applying statistics of an entire group to any individual within the group. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Barking\_Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Spider)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/46 "2002-06-09T23:38:35Z")
Monstro says: > [@](#): > > Not only are YOU a bigot, but you’re an idiot. Notice no one is calling me a bigot except for you. And why is that? Because everyone seems to be able to READ except for you. Yep, I can read. You advocated racial profiling of Whites because in your opinion, “Whites are the ones committing the crimes”. Not only is your opinion ignorant, but its racist as well, being that Blacks are the ones committing a disproportionate amount of crime, not Whites. I can only guess that the reason why so many people called me a bigot for defending White people against your racist attacks is because they are brainwashed to automaticly think that Black=good, White=bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/47 "2002-06-09T23:47:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\*Yeah, but guns still kill people. \*\* Guns don’t kill people. It’s the bullets, moving really, really fast. And **monstro** , if agreeing with someone because thy have the balls to state the facts is patting someone on the back, then I guess I’m guilty. I guess I’m not the type to kiss ass and be PC in order to become part of the “clique” around here. So what. This IS still America, isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/48 "2002-06-09T23:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > being that Blacks are the ones committing a disproportionate amount of crime, not Whites. No, as you have seen in this thread they are arrested more often, but not necessarily convicted. Even if you can read, you must have failed high school government. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/49 "2002-06-09T23:52:32Z")
Just to bring some context to this discussion, I am currently studying for a degree in Criminology and Criminal Justice. One theme which recurs over and over and over again in our course is the unreliability of statistics on crime, and in particular “official” statistics on crime. Official statistics show who is being **arrested** for crimes and who is being **convicted** for crimes - ie, they give us a rough picture of who is _least_ successful at committing crime, but they are not a great guide to which demographic groups are actually perpetrating crime. One of the biggest dangers of using profiling (which, by its very, nature is based on statistics which are based on information gained retrospectively) is the potential for it to make individuals and groups which do not fit the currently accepted “profile” of a particular type of criminal ‘invisible’. While it might well be possible to argue the case for fingerprinting all non-citizens of a nation upon entry (although my concern would be that doing so would tend to blind us to the possibility/likelihood of domestic terrorism), I’m unclear about exactly how advocates of this strategy think doing so would lessen the risk of terrorist crimes. Perhaps someone who is advocating this measure would like to clarify the point. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/50 "2002-06-10T00:01:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > **No, it’s not.** I really, _really_ don’t want to get into a semantic argument with you, but while profiling may not be _punitive_ it sure as hell is unfair. Amadou Diallo was basically “profiled” to death, while his death wasn’t the intention of profiling it was upheld as justified, that sure feels like punishment to me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/51 "2002-06-10T00:24:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I can only guess that the reason why so many people called me a bigot for defending White people against your racist attacks is because they are brainwashed to automaticly think that Black=good, White=bad. Or because everyone else posting to that thread is capable of recognizing irony and realizes that your knee-jerk reaction against a clearly ironic statment tends to indicate a certain predisposition in your outlook. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Barking\_Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Spider)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/52 "2002-06-10T01:24:35Z")
Big Kahuna Burger: > [@](#): > > No, as you have seen in this thread they are arrested more often, but not necessarily convicted. Even if you can read, you must have failed high school government. Um… have you ever seen any study concerning demographics in prison? Man, you people are full of excuses today! ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/53 "2002-06-10T01:29:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Um… have you ever seen any study concerning demographics in prison? Man, you people are full of excuses today! Go back to what **reprise** said about the unreliability of crime statistics and how they don’t catch all crimes? Furthermore, I was calling you out on how you equated arrest with conviction. Apparently you need to brush up on your 4th, 5th and 6th amendments. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Barking\_Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Spider)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/54 "2002-06-10T01:35:12Z")
MMmm… after googling “prison demographics”, I can only conclude that Blacks are about 7 times more likely to be in prison than Whites. Now, for your next excuse. Will you insist that Blacks don’t commit those crimes? Will you insist that Blacks are arrested for crimes that Whites did? Will you insist that Blacks are being railroaded by an evil WHite justice system? Will you insist that Blacks dont have adequate legal representation? ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/55 "2002-06-10T01:54:03Z")
**BS** , why are you not suggesting that we subject all Japanese people entering the US to the same measures you propose for those from the Middle East? ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/56 "2002-06-10T01:58:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Will you insist that Blacks don’t commit those crimes? Will you insist that Blacks are arrested for crimes that Whites did? Will you insist that Blacks are being railroaded by an evil WHite justice system? Will you insist that Blacks dont have adequate legal representation? Do you know anything about the American legal system? Do you not realize that we have trials to figure out if arrested people committed a crime or not? I still defer to **reprise** on the fallibility of crime statistics. Checking who’s arrested or who’s in jail merely is an indicator of who commits crime and gets caught, not who commits crime in general. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/57 "2002-06-10T02:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\*Are you really unable to distinguish between profiling and beatings? \*\* I think so. It’s kind of like the difference between bugging my house and breaking into it. Right? ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/58 "2002-06-10T02:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Big Kahuna Burger \* > \*\*Checking who’s arrested or who’s in jail merely is an indicator of who commits crime and gets caught, not who commits crime in general. \*\* And, of course, profiling skews the results of “who gets caught”. When you only look in certain segments of the population, criminals in other segments of thepopulation _don’t_ get caught. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/59 "2002-06-10T02:11:06Z")
BTW, **Ryan** , yes I am able to distinguish between profiling and beatings. I mentioned the beating as an _extreme_ example of the type of thought that leads to profiling. In a way, profiling bothers me more- when some jackass does something stupid I consider them an abberration, profiling implicates me as a member of society. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Barking\_Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Spider)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041/60 "2002-06-10T02:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > BS, why are you not suggesting that we subject all Japanese people entering the US to the same measures you propose for those from the Middle East? I never suggested that Middle Easterners be profiled. This whole Pit Thread was created because Grendel72 was pissed off because I caught Monsto profiling against Whites. Yes, Monstro was trying to convey the notion that Whites should be profiled because" they commit the crimes". When I straightened Monsto out to the fact that Blacks would be a better candidate for profiling due to their higher crime rate, then this thread was started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-barking-spider-there-is-a-difference-between-conservative-and-bigot/113041.md?page=4)