[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Then what makes you think that this new rule will be respected by the coaches and players any more than the old ones were? Obviously, if there is absolute anarchy from the bench to the outfield, it makes no difference what regulations the league hands down, the little monsters aided by the coach-enablers will do as they wish. Better ban baseball altogether.
[/QUOTE]
Rules with less discretion are easier to enforce. Especially when they were passed with all this fanfare.
[QUOTE=Richard Parker]
Rules with less discretion are easier to enforce.
[/QUOTE]
That’s the important thing here, is it? The easier solution?
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
I’ve got an idea; how about teaching them to play baseball? The game isn’t hard enough already?
[/QUOTE]
Timing and concentration are part of baseball. Learning how to focus inthe face of distractions is part of the game. Trying to gain a psychological edge by disrupting the opponent’s concentration is part of the game. And like I said earlier in the thread, benign chatter (chatter which is not personalized or mean-spirited) also has the effect of keeping the infield alert and on the same page. When it’s done right, chatter is harmless and marginally helpful. I think that banning it outright takes some of the fun away from the game because some coaches can’t or won’t teach the right kind of discipline.
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
That’s the important thing here, is it? The easier solution?
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
I was responding to your question of how these rules would work where the other failed.
Hey fielder fielder!
(They’re communicating!)
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
I’ve got an idea; how about teaching them to play baseball? The game isn’t hard enough already?
[/QUOTE]
And keep fucking SCORE and declare a fucking WINNER and LOSER at the goddamn end!
This is teaching. “Your team (won/lost) because you (did/did not) accomplish the objective of the game (better/worse) then the other team.” Otherwise, why waste all the time/money?
(Sorry. Today was my kid’s soccor practice. Fuck the “rules”. I tell them they either won or lost, and I keep score!)
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Timing and concentration are part of baseball.
[/quote]
True.
False. The game is about trying to hit the ball and run around the bases before the other team can throw you out. Plenty of challenge there. Heckling the batter to make him lose his concentration is not part of the game. It is not necessary to “teach” heckling nor how to react to it. Plenty to learn already. Plenty to teach already. Heckling is not needed.
Exactly. Otherwise why not have the catcher goose the batter just before the pitch? It’s just a distraction technique, and part of the game is tuning out distractions. :rolleyes:
It’s amazing how many sports can manage to proceed without this kind of shit. In rugby, if the defending team yells at the opposing goal-kicker while he’s taking a kick, the kick is taken over if it misses (or is allowed to stand if it is good). Similarly, any backchat to the referee after a decision is treated as misconduct and automatically penalised. As a result, discipline in the game is not too much of a problem for a full-contact sport.
As a slight aside, I am wondering if MLB catchers actually talk shit to batters, ala the baseball comedy movies. I know the ump is right there, but wonder if a bit of back and forth trash talk is common, like the guys on the line in the NFL.
[QUOTE=bigbabysweets2000]
Hey fielder fielder!
(They’re communicating!)
[/QUOTE]
There are coaches who will yell “I got it” or otherwise try to distract kids when they are fielding pop ups. I only have experience as a player as a child and as a parent of two boys who have been involved in little league, yet I’ve seen this kind of nonsense often enough.
The idea that anything like respect and integrity and fair play should be left to the discretion of the coach is utterly and unduly optimistic.
Speaking as a former soccer and volleyball coach, I can tell you that the kids aren’t the problem. It’s the parents. I lay down the rules at the beginning of the season (e.g. you’re allowed to congratulate your teammate for serving an ace, but you’re not allowed to do a taunting three minute group cheer), and the kids take it in stride. However, inevitably, one or two parents will show such an utter lack of sportsmanship that it leads you to wonder what childhood trauma they suffered.
For those who want the coaches to handle the parents, let me tell you that: a) I’m a volunteer coach. I signed up to teach skills, not to babysit parents; b) If a parent is beligerent enough to taunt a 5th grader, he’s not going to listen to reason; c) If I chastise one parent, then inevitably that’s followed up with: “Well, John said something worse last game and you didn’t say anything to HIM.” It turns into the SDMB Pit, where every Tom, Dick and Harry feels justified in whining about how the volunteer Mods are unfair/inconsistent/mean. d) I live in the same community as these parents. I’ve already ended two friendships with parents who took junior’s 6th grade volleyball waaay too seriously. I don’t relish getting into more arguments with irrational people.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
There are coaches who will yell “I got it” or otherwise try to distract kids when they are fielding pop ups.
[/QUOTE]
Really? Now that truly is pathetic.
A grown man, so invested in his team winning that he will try to distract a kid on the opposite team from making a play in a game, really needs to think about getting a life.
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
True.
False. The game is about trying to hit the ball and run around the bases before the other team can throw you out. Plenty of challenge there. Heckling the batter to make him lose his concentration is not part of the game. It is not necessary to “teach” heckling nor how to react to it. Plenty to learn already. Plenty to teach already. Heckling is not needed.
[/QUOTE]
Except that chatter is part of baseball. It predates Little League and is older than you or me or anyone on this board. It is what kids do when they play without adults.
As i said earlier, while i think a bit of good-natured ribbing is OK, it would be nice if the coaches and umpires could just police the nasty stuff. But i really don’t have too much trouble with the ban. As other have noted, it’s a kids game, and there’s enough to focus on in baseball without worrying about abusing the opposition. Teaching the kids to make an over-the-shoulder running catch in the outfield, or turn a smart double play, or execute a run-down, should be what the coaches are focusing on.
I also don’t quite understand the idea that this stuff is integral to the game, that getting rid of it somehow reduces the quality or the authenticity of the game. Admittedly, i never played little league. I grew up playing cricket, where this sort of thing was not allowed. But, in the last few years i’ve been playing on a city softball league here in Baltimore. While it’s certainly not pro ball, and it’s hardly even the most talented set of teams ever to don a glove, we are all serious about the games, and do our very best to win. Yet we manage to do that without any taunting of the opposition.
[QUOTE=mhendo]
Really? Now that truly is pathetic.
A grown man, so invested in his team winning that he will try to distract a kid on the opposite team from making a play in a game, really needs to think about getting a life.
[/QUOTE]
It is shocking to the sensibilities when you encounter these fuck-nuts, but it’s reliable as clockwork that you’ll see a couple of examples every season, in one form or another.
There are also the videos out there of dads running into football games to knock down the opposition, or into a wrestling match, but I’m digressing now from the issues of coaches to parents.
PunditLisa, I can’t imagine the array of nonsense you had to put up with. Good on you for your efforts and your attitude.
[QUOTE=saoirse]
Except that chatter is part of baseball. It predates Little League and is older than you or me or anyone on this board. It is what kids do when they play without adults.
[/QUOTE]
Kids often pull the wings off flies or smoke cigarettes when adults aren’t around, too.
The fact is that these games are supervised by adults, and i don’t see any problem with those adults creating some boundaries regarding what does and does not constitute sportsmanlike conduct. It doesn’t change the way the kids throw and hit and field the ball, it doesn’t detract from the gameplay. And if some individual coaches and parents are so over-invested in the victory of their sons’ little league team that they allow excessive and insulting taunting, then maybe a rule is needed to prevent it.
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
Your complaint was with whomever forced you to go to that camp, not with the camp itself. Why would someone make you do this? Why send a non-athletic kid to a sports camp? It makes no more sense than sending a kid to a math/science camp when he has difficulty with simple arithmetic.
[/QUOTE]
I should probably clarify on the word “forced.” It’s not like someone pointed a gun at me and threatened my life if didn’t go. My parents sent me because they thought I’d have fun there. If I’d had the sack then that I have now, I’d have told them that sorry, I know you paid good money to send me there, but no fucking way I’m going back to that shit sty. But the thing is, I wanted to please my parents, and I didn’t want them to think that I couldn’t hack the shit sty.
But the blame still falls squarely on the counsellor. The asswipe had no business being in charge of kids. He was an insensitive, abusive prick. If I met the guy today, I’d have a hard time not punching him in the face. I feel fully entitled to.
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx]
I was trying to illustrate in a Lion King, Circle of Life kinda way that kids will naturally pick on the lame or weak kids just as lions will single out the lame or weak zebra from a herd.
[/QUOTE]
It’s also natural to hunt humans with spears and to force women from other tribes to to be your wife. Try the “circle of life” argument with a judge.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Gotta say I disagree with the OP 100%. The way to grow healthy and well-adjusted adults is not to be cruel to them as kids “for their own good.” I received more than my share of taunts and cruelty when I was a kid, and it didn’t make me thick skinned. It made me bitter.
If you truly believe that bullying a kid is good for him, then rest assured that other kids will find a way to do so. There is no need to enshrine such asinine behavior in organized institutions.
[/QUOTE]
Absurd. It’s not bullying, it’s distracting the other player. Hell, half the time we lost track of who was up there and would make fun of our own player.
“Pitcher’s got a rubber arm!” is something you took personally? Puh-lease!
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
Absurd. It’s not bullying, it’s distracting the other player. Hell, half the time we lost track of who was up there and would make fun of our own player.
“Pitcher’s got a rubber arm!” is something you took personally? Puh-lease!
[/QUOTE]
Swallowed My Cellphone, welcome to the thread. You might take a moment to actually read it before you post.