# Hey Bernie, go to hell and take all of your Bros with you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322 "2018-02-22T04:12:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/221 "2018-03-08T01:41:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Doggydunnit, in what universe does a candidate who gets three million fewer votes “crush” their opponent? I am willing to bet HRC was crushed when she learned she lost by negative 3 million votes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/222 "2018-03-08T01:46:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am willing to bet HRC was crushed when she learned she lost by negative 3 million votes. 😃 True! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/223 "2018-03-08T01:51:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nope, as I made clear. If they get matching funds, that’s cool. If they don’t, that’s cool too. My vote could have maybe helped a 3rd party get matching funds. It sure wasn’t going to help Clinton get elected, nor prevent Trump from getting elected. > > Plus I get the added bonus of saying “Well, I didn’t vote for him!” when people complain about Trump. Just as I would say “Well, I didn’t vote for her!” if Clinton had won and people started complaining about her. > > It’s win-win for me really. My assumption is that you are an able bodied heterosexual white male. If this is your political mindset, please understand that this is why anyone who isn’t might greet you with less than open arms. And why Bernie and his supporters were looked on with suspicion by the democratic party. Yes, he resonated with middle and upper class white liberals, but the underatanding was that he was prepared to throw the rest of the coalition under the bus if he needed to, for the ‘greater good.’ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/224 "2018-03-08T02:02:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Doggydunnit, in what universe does a candidate who gets three million fewer votes “crush” their opponent? In the universe where the Electoral College is how you win elections. Now, we can argue whether or not Trump’s win constitutes “crushing” Hillary in the EC. That vote tally was 304 - 227, meaning Trump got 34% more EC votes than Hillary’s total. It’s subjective, but I can see how some might consider that a “crushing” defeat. OTOH, a very small percent of the vote going the other way in a few states would have flipped the election to Clinton. So maybe not so “crushing” after all. It all depends on which statistics are really more important. Winning a ton of votes in CA is not so impressive. However, winning more of the popular vote, in and of itself as Hillary did, means nada. Nothing. Zilch. Neinschleppen. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Philz, if you care to wait in line long enough. It’s long past time to get over that, and I can’t imagine why some folks keep bringing that up. It would be like harping that the Yankees didn’t really lose to Boston in The World Series because NY scored more total runs in the series, when Boston won 5 of the 7 games\*. The goal is not to score more runs. The goal is to win more games. \*That scenario is made up for illustrative purposes only. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/225 "2018-03-08T02:21:27Z")
John Mace, you are wrong (and guilty of what poker experts call “results-based thinking”): it very much does matter. And it matters for the precise reason that “crushed” verbiage was used, as a cudgel to prod Democrats to throw out their old playbook and start anew, as though what they have been doing for the past few cycles is ineffectual and needs to be scrapped. When in fact, winning the popular vote by three million and still losing in the EC is a sign of bad lucks, not a bad campaign or an unpopular party brand. When Bill Clinton ran in 1992, Democrats had lost five out of the previous six presidential races, which represented four blowout losses, one narrow win, and one narrow loss. But three of the blowouts had occurred in the three contests immediately preceding ‘92. THAT is when you stop as a party and evaluate whether it’s time to take a new approach. Whereas right now, the Democrats have won the popular vote in the presidential race three cycles in a row and six out of the last seven. Two of the past three elections, the Democratic candidate got over 51% of the vote, which a Democrat had not previously done since 1964. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/226 "2018-03-08T05:11:18Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > My bolding. > > I wish the issue had in fact been that those states were red. Of course that wasn’t really the problem–if it had been Sanders would’ve disavowed his own victories in Kansas and Idaho, Utah and West Virginia, Alaska and Oklahoma, none of which had a prayer of going in the general election for Sanders, Clinton, or anyone else without an R beside his or her name. > > No, the problem with those Southern states wasn’t the color red…it was a different color, as hinted at by **EddyTeddyFreddy** upstairs. And given that Sanders felt comfortable saying that the south didn’t count, you don’t need to look much further for reasons why he received less than a quarter of African American votes. > > (Well, I think there were several other reasons, and of course the trend was well under way before he made that remark. But the comment displays a mindset that doesn’t speak well of the man.) In case it wasn’t clear from my tone, I was offering ‘the southern states were red’ not as my understanding of the reason Sanders supporters had for wanting to discount them, but merely as the reason they gave. The fig leaf, if you will. As you point out, it’s not even a believable fig leaf. In addition to red states in the Sanders column being okay, it ignores that the same logic demands that we ignore solid blue states, too. Washington is going to go for whoever the Democrat is. Should our votes count? Now, as for the real reason: I really don’t think it was because the majority of Democratic voters in the South are black. Sanders supporters can certainly be tone-deaf - I’m sure I can be too - but I don’t think they’re explicitly racist. No, the real reason that southern states shouldn’t count as much is because Clinton won them. The same reason closed primaries - or primaries where you have to register in advance - shouldn’t count as much. It was just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/227 "2018-03-08T05:59:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It would be like harping that the Yankees didn’t really lose to Boston in The World Series because NY scored more total runs in the series, when Boston won 5 of the 7 games\*. The goal is not to score more runs. The goal is to win more games. > > \*That scenario is made up for illustrative purposes only. I do not know if you meant to or not (or even know of this) but there is an article published over 20 years ago that argues for the electoral college and uses that analogy. Personally I am on the fence on this one. Food for thought though: > [@](#): > > The same logic that governs our electoral system, he saw, also applies to many sports–which Americans do, intuitively, understand. In baseball’s World Series, for example, the team that scores the most runs overall is like a candidate who gets the most votes. But to become champion, that team must win the most games. In 1960, during a World Series as nail-bitingly close as that year’s presidential battle between Kennedy and Nixon, the New York Yankees, with the awesome slugging combination of Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Bill “Moose” Skowron, scored more than twice as many total runs as the Pittsburgh Pirates, 55 to 27. Yet the Yankees lost the series, four games to three. Even Natapoff, who grew up in the shadow of Yankee Stadium, conceded that Pittsburgh deserved to win. “Nobody walked away saying it was unfair,” he says. > > Runs must be grouped in a way that wins games, just as popular votes must be grouped in a way that wins states. The Yankees won three blowouts (16-3, 10-0, 12-0), but they couldn’t come up with the runs they needed in the other four games, which were close. “And that’s exactly how Cleveland lost the series of 1888,” Natapoff continues. “Grover Cleveland. He lost the five largest states by a close margin, though he carried Texas, which was a thinly populated state then, by a large margin. So he scored more runs, but he lost the five biggies.” And that was fair, too. In sports, we accept that a true champion should be more consistent than the 1960 Yankees. A champion should be able to win at least some of the tough, close contests by every means available–bunting, stealing, brilliant pitching, dazzling plays in the field–and not just smack home runs against second-best pitchers. A presidential candidate worthy of office, by the same logic, should have broad appeal across the whole nation, and not just play strongly on a single issue to isolated blocs of voters. > > SOURCE: [Math Against Tyranny](http://discovermagazine.com/2004/sep/math-against-tyranny) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/228 "2018-03-08T10:38:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not know if you meant to or not (or even know of this) but there is an article published over 20 years ago that argues for the electoral college and uses that analogy. > > Personally I am on the fence on this one. Food for thought though: Only if Games 1, 4, and 6 are worth more wins. Using the World Series as an analogy for the Electoral College is as dumb now as it was 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/229 "2018-03-08T13:31:22Z")
No one is going to comment on the fact that it’s impossible to win five games in a World Series? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/230 "2018-03-08T13:49:47Z")
Not in over a century, anyway. The early ones were best of nine. Also, Boston and the Yankees are in the same league, as the peasantry may not know. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/231 "2018-03-08T14:23:49Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Using the World Series as an analogy for the Electoral College is as dumb now as it was 15 years ago. Would you prefer stoke play vs match play in golf? There is nothing “dumb” about the analogy when explaining how the system works. It’s actually one of the best analogies out there. What would be “dumb” is making the argument that “if it’s good enough for The World Series, it’s good enough for a presidential election”. Which, you’ll note, I was not doing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/232 "2018-03-08T14:37:34Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > No one is going to comment on the fact that it’s impossible to win five games in a World Series? > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Heh. I started to write 4 to 3, but wanted to get the “crushed” part in there, too. But yeah, impossible to go 5 games to 2. Which is perhaps why the golf analogy is better! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/233 "2018-03-08T17:03:08Z")
> [@DoggyDunnit](#): > > The problem with that statement is that in today’s United States, it’s basically meaningless. The [Overton window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) in this country is so far to the right it has a nosebleed. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. It doesn’t change the fact that Hillary is far more liberal than her husband was. Also, the Democrats allowed someone even more to the left who was never even a Democrat to run as one in the primary. He lost the primary by over three and a half million votes. His name was Bernie, something… Maybe you recall. Despite losing by more than three and a half million votes he still had [unprecedented say](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-scores-platform-concessions-from-democratic-national-committee/2016/05/23/e9ee8330-20fc-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html) in the platform. He even called it the [most progressive platform in party history](https://berniesanders.com/democrats-adopt-progressive-platform-party-history/). Complain all you want about how national politics are too far to the right and Democrats too far to the center, but the fact is that you are in the minority and that those who reject the most leftward candidates because they are not as far left as they would like cause things to go the other way. In other words: You’re not helping. > [@](#): > > …aaaaaaand he gets crushed due to a combination of DNC corruption Eat shit, conspiracy theorist. > [@](#): > > and “my” people - that is, African-Americans - bringing that cult of personality bullshit with the Clinton worship. Marcus Johnson [doesn’t think it’s bullshit](https://medium.com/@marcushjohnson/black-voters-aren-t-feeling-the-bern-here-s-why-aaca90e7d5d): > [@](#): > > Black people fondly remember the growth of the black middle class under the 1st Clinton administration, and significant drop in black unemployment (despite what Michelle Alexander says, this wasn’t due to mass incarceration. I could go on, but that’s a topic for another day.). Under Clinton, black people prospered economically, and those are economic times that we’d like to return to. > > Hillary Clinton is promising to build on Obama’s legacy, not tear it down in the attempt to create a faux socialist utopia. Hillary has a plan to fund both public and private HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities) while Bernie’s public college plan would let private HBCUs fall into disrepair and close down. Black politicians and black institutions — public and private — are something that black people take pride in. There are black people who got an education at an HBCU that couldn’t be provided to them at a major public institution. Bernie doesn’t understand that, because he doesn’t understand the black experience in America. He’s never had to in Vermont. It’s exactly why black voters are looking past him at the ballot box. And its why he’ll continue to lose diverse states, in March and beyond. [Never mind the fact that the Clintons are partially or wholly responsible for letting the Republicans flamethrower what was left of the FDR/Johnson social safety net, the “tough on crime” nonsense that makes even the most goody-two-shoes amongst us side-eye every cop that passes within a 500 foot radius, kickstarting the media consolidation that crashed minority ownership in telecom, and lots, lots more.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/25/1491222/-Hillary-s-Gonna-Pull-the-Football-Away-Black-Community-Appears-Eager-to-Fall-on-Collective-Butt) > [@](#): > > Barney Frank, the liberal former congressman from Massachusetts, makes this point explicitly in his recent memoir. “At the time, many on the left believed he was ‘too moderate,’” Frank writes. “In the political climate of the times, I continued to believe that Bill Clinton was the most liberal electable president.” > > [Politico](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/democrats-too-liberal-for-bill-clinton-118555) Barney Frank frequently sparred with Bill Clinton over how he wasn’t liberal enough and even he admits that during the time, he was as liberal as we were going to do. You do that a lot, decrying how things actually are. Sorry that reality bugs you but a person can only be so far out of step with the mainstream and succeed within it. The first person in the pool didn’t become President and change, say, marriage equality. But having more liberal people in politics allowed for it to happen gradually which is why under the Obama administration - which nobody will confuse with a Liberal paradise - incremental changes were made to push things in the right direction. I realize incremental change isn’t as sexy as a revolution but small steps forward beats big steps back which is what we have with Trump in the White House, thanks in no small part to people with attitudes like yours. > [@](#): > > Us non-privileged Blacks who have more than two brain cells and a road between them have the sense to _abhor and despise_ the Clintons, but the stupid ones and the privileged ones (easily identifiable by their [tacky, excessive cars)](https://i.imgur.com/1g372ra.jpg) who think they’re too good to share with the less fortunate helped sink Bernie. Oh, I see. You know better than [three quarters of the black population](http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/) all of whom are so stupid they don’t even know who to vote for. Hopefully you leave here and become their leader soon. My understanding is that they love it when white people tell them all that they know better for them than they do. Maybe you’ll have better luck. Personally, I think your opinion is trash but Donald Trump [appreciates all you did for him](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/06/03/donald-trump-rally-african-american-kkk-sot.cnn) and you’re the gift to him that keeps on giving. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/234 "2018-03-08T17:05:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe they will next time. Who knows? Interesting to see. Still no evidence you’re not a moron. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/235 "2018-03-08T17:14:49Z")
JSLE, I agree with most of your response to DoggyDunnit, but I think you may have missed that s/he is black. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/236 "2018-03-08T18:19:02Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Eat shit, conspiracy theorist. Well… > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton’s campaign took over the Democratic National Committee’s funding and day-to-day operations early in the primary season and may have used that power to undermine her rival Senator Bernie Sanders, according to the party’s one-time interim chairwoman. > > The DNC official, Donna Brazile, now a political analyst, wrote in Politico Magazine on Thursday that she discovered an August 2015 agreement between the national committee and Clinton’s campaign and fundraising arm that gave Clinton “control (of) the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised” in exchange for taking care of the massive debt leftover from President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign. > > It wasn’t illegal, Brazile said, “but it sure looked unethical.” > > SOURCE: [Hillary Clinton Robbed Bernie Sanders Of The Democratic Nomination, According to Donna Brazile - Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/clinton-robbed-sanders-dnc-brazile-699421) I hate that you and I share the same party affiliation. I do not want you in my party/I do not want to be in your party. You have done nothing but deride anyone, even those largely on your side, if they did anything other but line up behind Clinton like good little soldiers and sing her praises. Anyone who doesn’t is clearly an idiot to be forever scorned. Never do you consider or allow that Clinton was a deeply flawed candidate and that maybe, just _maybe_, she had something to do with her own loss. Such a stagnant, rigid, unbending, wrathful mindset is much more apropos of the republican party. I’m sure they’d love to have you. You’d fit right in. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/237 "2018-03-08T18:27:29Z")
Bernie supporters were way more like the Tea Party then they care to admit. Also fell for a lot of that Russian disinformation being pushed on Facebook and Twitter. I saw many of the same anti Hillary memes being shared by both Trump and Bernie supporters. It’s not as simple as you want to think. We have Trump in the White House for gods sake. Can we please focus on the actual enemy and stop falling for Putin’s desire to seed resentment and hatred between our political factions? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/238 "2018-03-08T18:35:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe matching funds might do something. Maybe not. Interesting to see anyway. > > If my vote would have made a difference, I would have voted for Clinton of course. I’m not a moron. As I said, and a bit of a departure from the OP, that is a strategic vote. And you should always vote in the way that you feel your vote makes the most difference in the direction you want to go. If you feel that making a token effort to get third parties matching funds was the best, then that’s your opinion. I disagree with it, both in that I don’t think that it would have accomplished what it is that you are trying to do, and that I also don’t think that your goal has much utility either. But, you are not the sort of person that I (I can’t speak for the OP) find to be shameful (at least about your vote) as you didn’t refuse to vote for clinton because you think that she stole the primary, or because she’s no better than trump, or whatever reason that your best russian friends can come up with for you. You acknowledge that if you have been in a battleground state, you would have done the responsible thing, and that if things had played out differently than expected in your state, then at least you would be acknowledging your error, rather than doubling down. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/239 "2018-03-08T18:41:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Never do you consider or allow that Clinton was a deeply flawed candidate and that maybe, just _maybe_, she had something to do with her own loss. Two words: President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/240 "2018-03-08T18:49:57Z")
Yeah I don’t see how the “but Hillary was a flawed candidate” carries any weight when we actually have president dumpster fire in office right damn now. Was Hillary as flawed a candidate as Trump? Clearly not. Was Bernie without flaws? Clearly not. Can you name one candidate for any office ever in our history that had zero flaws? Somehow I doubt it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322.md?page=13)