# Hey Bernie, go to hell and take all of your Bros with you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322 "2018-02-22T04:12:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/261 "2018-03-08T21:32:39Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > This always cracks me up. That the DNC favored the Democrat other the Democratic Socialist is a feature, not a bug. If a third party candidate you didn’t like switched parties just for a shot at president and hijacked a functioning party’s process, how would you feel about it? Well, it went against their own by-laws and rules which they later argued in court were not really binding and just a political promise and therefore not one you can hold them too. Their safety valve are the superdelegates which tells would be democratic voters that their votes only count a little bit and could be overturned. > [@](#): > > Also, and I have to keep coming back to this- Bernie was as hard on ‘identity politics’ as any right-winger I have encountered. White dudes loved him, I get that. But the vibe that minorities of several different stripes (including Black Americans, the backbone and moral compass of the party) got from Sanders was that they would be much better protected by a Clinton administration. And I don’t blame them. Wow… Sanders was light years better for African Americans than the Clintons ever were. He spent decades working diligently for civil rights and never wavered. Hillary worked for Barry Goldwater and called members of the African American community “superpredators”. Bill Clinton’s 1994 crime bill helped spur the mass incarceration of black people (three strikes law). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/262 "2018-03-08T21:33:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You are invited to set your Search function to 2016 and find an extremely extensive and in depth discussion of this and all related topics regarding the primary and general election, including all the cites you could ever hope for. It’s a shame you slept through it all, but that’s nobody else’s fault. Do your own work. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/263 "2018-03-08T21:34:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > His pollsters also thought that Clinton would beat him. Interesting. What were the margins of victory their polling showed for both? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/264 "2018-03-08T21:40:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Do your own work. Nobody is here to spoonfeed you. You have a \*lot \*of catching up to do, and no apparent willingness to do it, or do anything else but pout. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/265 "2018-03-08T21:47:50Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > This always cracks me up. That the DNC favored the Democrat other the Democratic Socialist is a feature, not a bug. Yes and no, depending on what timeframe you’re talking about. The DNC became, essentially, an operating arm of the Clinton campaign before the first primary or caucus was even held, so it’s more accurate to say that the DNC favored Clinton over every other possible candidate, not just Bernie. In the end, it came down to Clinton vs Sanders, but that was later. Now, maybe some folks think it’s best for the party to jump in on the side of one candidate that early, but lots of folks think otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/266 "2018-03-08T22:23:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Nobody is here to spoonfeed you. You have a \*lot \*of catching up to do, and no apparent willingness to do it, or do anything else but pout. I cannot think of a time on the SDMB were it is the responsibility of someone to go read up on all previous posts of another poster which might have bearing on the current discussion. So do your own work or admit you’ve got nothing but low effort drive-bys in you. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/267 "2018-03-08T22:27:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Wow… > > Sanders was light years better for African Americans than the Clintons ever were. He spent decades working diligently for civil rights and never wavered. Hillary worked for Barry Goldwater and called members of the African American community “superpredators”. Bill Clinton’s 1994 crime bill helped spur the mass incarceration of black people (three strikes law). Please tell us more about how black people were wrong about how they voted, and how you know better than they do what would be good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/268 "2018-03-09T01:05:02Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Please tell us more about how black people were wrong about how they voted, and how you know better than they do what would be good for them. I never said any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/269 "2018-03-09T01:18:50Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > DoggyDunbit, I happen to sympathize more with the OP than with your overall message, but it was a pleasure reading your post — important observations, entertainingly stated. Thanks. 🙂 > [@octopus](#): > > The progressives will be absorbed and marginalized by the Democrats. You all have no alternatives. Marginalized, yes - we have been for ages. Absorbed? Hell no. It’s either the party turns leftward or we go back to sitting on our asses letting them drift on like an unguided vessel. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Progressives are democrats. No. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Doggydunnit, in what universe does a candidate who gets three million fewer votes “crush” their opponent? > > Looks like I’m stuck with people like you in my Democratic Party, and you’re stuck with people like me. Rest assured that I will continue to do my best to make sure candidates like Bernie (and Warren, etc.)are not nominated. You will do the opposite. So we’ll see what happens! In a universe where they overperform in already-deep-blue states and forget that the EC requires them to spread out majorities. And I’m not a Democrat; I align with Socialist Alternative and supported Mimi Soltysik, Socialist Party USA’s candidate, after Bernie was cheated out of the nomination. It’s cool if you want to be a part of keeping the Democratic Party Republican Lite (though frankly I don’t know why you don’t just outright be a Republican if you detest real leftism so much); if y’all succeed I’ll assume you won’t be attending Trump’s 2021 inauguration. 🙂 > [@John\_Mace](#): > > In the universe where the Electoral College is how you win elections. > > Now, we can argue whether or not Trump’s win constitutes “crushing” Hillary in the EC. That vote tally was 304 - 227, meaning Trump got 34% more EC votes than Hillary’s total. It’s subjective, but I can see how some might consider that a “crushing” defeat. OTOH, a very small percent of the vote going the other way in a few states would have flipped the election to Clinton. So maybe not so “crushing” after all. It all depends on which statistics are really more important. Winning a ton of votes in CA is not so impressive. > > However, winning more of the popular vote, in and of itself as Hillary did, means nada. Nothing. Zilch. Neinschleppen. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Philz, if you care to wait in line long enough. It’s long past time to get over that, and I can’t imagine why some folks keep bringing that up. It would be like harping that the Yankees didn’t really lose to Boston in The World Series because NY scored more total runs in the series, when Boston won 5 of the 7 games\*. The goal is not to score more runs. The goal is to win more games. > > \*That scenario is made up for illustrative purposes only. Bingo. Overperforming amongst the latte liberal “#ImWithHer” crowd did her no good because she forgot about several important demographics, who either sat at home, went third party, or supported Trump - and with damn good reason: why the hell is someone in the struggle gonna support a fucking coastal liberal? Fuck them - it’s not like they care about us. Look at San Francisco, L.A., Seattle, NYC, D.C., et cetera - if there’s so many “progressives” there, why is there a homelessness epidemic? What happened to breaking off some family-style for the outcasts? Oh wait, I forgot - the “unwashed bums” might stain the new white leather couches and ruin the vibe at the next cocktail party. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > John Mace, you are wrong (and guilty of what poker experts call “results-based thinking”): it very much does matter. And it matters for the precise reason that “crushed” verbiage was used, as a cudgel to prod Democrats to throw out their old playbook and start anew, as though what they have been doing for the past few cycles is ineffectual and needs to be scrapped. When in fact, winning the popular vote by three million and still losing in the EC is a sign of bad lucks, not a bad campaign or an unpopular party brand. > > When Bill Clinton ran in 1992, Democrats had lost five out of the previous six presidential races, which represented four blowout losses, one narrow win, and one narrow loss. But three of the blowouts had occurred in the three contests immediately preceding ‘92. > > **THAT is when you stop as a party and evaluate whether it’s time to take a new approach.** > > Whereas right now, the Democrats have won the popular vote in the presidential race three cycles in a row and six out of the last seven. Two of the past three elections, the Democratic candidate got over 51% of the vote, which a Democrat had not previously done since 1964. Bolding mine. Yup, and that new approach should have been - at the very least - harnessing the spirit of Lyndon Johnson (minus the hawkishness). But nope, let’s be Republican Lite! Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, kemosabe. Keep on thinking that the Dems need to be a center-right party, and people will continue to invoke the “lite beer principle”. Especially in today’s environment, where, unlike in '92, unfettered Reagan-style capitalism’s chickens are coming home to roost en masse - and the eggs they are laying are radioactive. The Democrats have an opportunity to embrace socialism and, truly and for real, “Make America Great… At Long Last” (this country has never been ‘great’; more on that later). Or, they can continue to be Centrist Clintonistas, in which case us true leftists will abandon the Dems again and let y’all’s ship drift out in open ocean with no engine and no winds for the sails while the Republicans steamroll by on an aircraft carrier. Of course, this time, the U.S. isn’t liable to survive another fifty years of the consequences of that kinda mess - whether by way of a hawk that escalates things with China/Russia and starts a shooting war (that’ll inevitably turn nuclear) and/or the country becomes a failed “zombie state” that has a damn good probability of Balkanizing. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Don’t hate the player, hate the game. It doesn’t change the fact that Hillary is far more liberal than her husband was. > > Also, the Democrats allowed someone even more to the left who was never even a Democrat to run as one in the primary. He lost the primary by over three and a half million votes. His name was Bernie, something… Maybe you recall. Despite losing by more than three and a half million votes he still had [unprecedented say](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-scores-platform-concessions-from-democratic-national-committee/2016/05/23/e9ee8330-20fc-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html) in the platform. He even called it the [most progressive platform in party history](https://berniesanders.com/democrats-adopt-progressive-platform-party-history/). Not nearly progressive enough. Sorry, Charlie. 🙂 > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Complain all you want about how national politics are too far to the right and Democrats too far to the center, but the fact is that you are in the minority and that those who reject the most leftward candidates because they are not as far left as they would like cause things to go the other way. In other words: You’re not helping. Oh yeah? Well, it was my “#NotWithHer” minority that sunk her and threw the election to Trump. We’ll be happy to give him a second term if you wish, or you can get with the program. Your choice. 🙂 > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Eat shit, conspiracy theorist. The truth stings, don’t it? 🙂 See **Whack-A-Mole’s** posts between the one currently quoted and this one; they provided a great summary of the DNC’s mess they pulled. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Marcus Johnson [doesn’t think it’s bullshit](https://medium.com/@marcushjohnson/black-voters-aren-t-feeling-the-bern-here-s-why-aaca90e7d5d) Haha, from that article… > [@](#): > > Bernie Sanders is right. The system is rigged. But its not because Wall Street decided that all of our money and jobs belong to the 1 percent. The system is rigged because of white supremacy. The system is rigged against black and brown people because of racism, period. Even the poorest white person has a plethora of societal benefits that aren’t accessible to well off black folks. Marcus Johnson, whoever the fuck he is, needs to ram a porcupine up his privileged ass. Shit like his is what gave Trump the presidency, and he is too busy with his little persecution complex to realize this. I’m gonna steal a Clintonista line here, and modify it a bit. \*\*IT’S STILL _STILL THE MOTHERFUCKING ECONOMY, STUPID!_ Jesus Murphy on a pogo stick in the springtime, this is not that fucking hard to get. He and the rest of the “#ImWithHer” crowd needs to get it through their arugula-stuffed, latte-soaked pea-brains that the “prosperous Clinton years” and the “prosperous Obama years”, as well as any “good economy” in any kind of recent memory, motherfucking **missed the underclass**. And that’s why us in the underclass delivered Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Iowa, North Carolina, Florida, et cetera to Trump. It ain’t about skin color these days nearly as much as it is about economics. I have a lot more in common with poor whites - urban, suburban, and rural alike - than I do with the “black middle class”, who all need to spread their cheeks and take rusty fenceposts up their piece of shit asses. Those of us in the underclass are oppressed by the rich and the “middle class”. There are people of all skin tones oppressing, and people of all skin tones oppressed. Bernie was telling the truth and focusing on this (though without enough talking about the middle class - or, as they are better known, the petit bourgeois) and that’s why he was so fucking popular. He resonated with the forgotten peoples of this country. But the Democrats decided that pussy-ass liberals whining about “oppression” while sitting on the heated leather seats in their Audis and on their $1500 bicycles with five, six, seven figures in their bank account and a luxury apartment in the city were enough to win them the election. And we all know how THAT turned out, now don’t we? Boo hoo, poor motherfucking baby, the rich gay couple couldn’t get a cake from a Christian bakery? _ **WHO THE FUCK CARES** _, _ **there are people STARVING!** _ WE go first, y’all privileged motherfuckers gotta take a number and _ **sit the fuck down.** _ > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Barney Frank frequently sparred with Bill Clinton over how he wasn’t liberal enough and even he admits that during the time, he was as liberal as we were going to do. > > You do that a lot, decrying how things actually are. Sorry that reality bugs you but a person can only be so far out of step with the mainstream and succeed within it. The first person in the pool didn’t become President and change, say, marriage equality. But having more liberal people in politics allowed for it to happen gradually which is why under the Obama administration - which nobody will confuse with a Liberal paradise - incremental changes were made to push things in the right direction. > > I realize incremental change isn’t as sexy as a revolution but small steps forward beats big steps back which is what we have with Trump in the White House, thanks in no small part to people with attitudes like yours. Incremental change would be fine, if it was incremental change that was actually progressive. Take health care. The Democrats had a supermajority for enough time to where they could have forced through healthcare reform with a public option. I would have been good with that - it was not necessary for them to ram through single payer (though that would have been nice) - but nope, not even that incremental change was on their radar. Obamacare took a swimming pool full of water, dumped a single packet of Kool-Aid and a cup of sugar in, and called it punch. The Democrats gotta step it up. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Oh, I see. You know better than [three quarters of the black population](http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/) all of whom are so stupid they don’t even know who to vote for. Hopefully you leave here and become their leader soon. My understanding is that they love it when white people tell them all that they know better for them than they do. Maybe you’ll have better luck. Yup, I do know better. Idiots will be idiots, and the selfish (the “black middle class”) will be the selfish. They let that mess sink Bernie, and sinking Bernie sank the Democrats’ chances against Trump. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Personally, I think your opinion is trash but Donald Trump [appreciates all you did for him](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/06/03/donald-trump-rally-african-american-kkk-sot.cnn) and you’re the gift to him that keeps on giving. Yup, and I’m proud to be. If the choice is between more of the status quo and burning this motherfucker to the ground, then I will be happy to grab my matches and gas and do my part. 🙂 > [@Airbeck](#): > > Bernie supporters were way more like the Tea Party then they care to admit. Also fell for a lot of that Russian disinformation being pushed on Facebook and Twitter. I saw many of the same anti Hillary memes being shared by both Trump and Bernie supporters. It’s not as simple as you want to think. We have Trump in the White House for gods sake. Can we please focus on the actual enemy and stop falling for Putin’s desire to seed resentment and hatred between our political factions? America’s chickens, they are finally motherfuckin’ comin’ home to roost, y’all. The British may have been twisted, but the “revolutionaries” (sic) decided they were gonna turn around in this new country and turn the Evil-O-Meter all the way over and rip that fucker off the base. America - the government and the corporations that are wedded with it like a mutant Siamese twin - has done nothing but fuck with the rest of the world to suit its own selfish, twisted desires, especially since the Russian Revolution in 1917. Any time oppressed people stood up and punched out their oppressors or a people simply refused to play ball with America, Uncle Sam was ready with firepower to turn them into a pile of ash. Allende’s Chile, New JEWEL’s Grenada, the Congo, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq… the list goes on and on. There is not a country on this whole blue marble that the U.S. has not interfered with in this way. The U.S. built up the largest military by far to ensure this hegemony continued… except the Evil Empire failed to take into account how the advancement of the interwebtubes would provide a way to get around that. Russia found that door and marched through it like Sherman trekking through Georgia. And you know what? Good! It’s good to see this country get a taste of its own fucking medicine for once. They don’t need a single Russian boot on U.S. soil to divide and conquer this place, and I’m laughing my ass off right now about this whole situation. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/270 "2018-03-09T04:17:45Z")
**DoggyDunnit** , I don’t necessarily disagree with you on any ideological point. But I think you are mistaken in thinking that cleaving left away from the Democrats will move the discussion left. Parties go where the votes are, and it;'s been shown time and time again that voters in the middle, and to the right, will show up to vite, regardless of opinion polls. You aren’t helping. If voting is a strategic exercise, you are failing. Your best bet is to vote Dem and shift the party leftwards. I am sorry if that is a bitter pill, but it’s one many of us have had to swallow, and has been borne out by actual events. Do what you want in the primary, but at the end you have a binary choice. Right or Left. And whether you like it or not, the Dems are the only viable option on the left. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/271 "2018-03-09T05:02:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I never said any such thing. Well you said that “Sanders was light years better for African Americans than the Clintons ever were.”, yet he didn’t get the AA vote. So going by that they didn’t agree that he was light years better for them. By their votes they disagreed with you, so you declaring that Bernie was better for them means you think they voted wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/272 "2018-03-09T05:03:38Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > You aren’t helping. If voting is a strategic exercise, you are failing. Your best bet is to vote Dem and shift the party leftwards. I am sorry if that is a bitter pill, but it’s one many of us have had to swallow, and has been borne out by actual events. Do what you want in the primary, but at the end you have a binary choice. Right or Left. And whether you like it or not, the Dems are the only viable option on the left. The problem is the center has moved to the right. Dramatically so and I think we are starting to see the backlash to that and the pendulum may be swinging back the other way. The attempt to compromise has gotten Dems nowhere except dragged to the right. It needs to stop. I certainly see no problem resisting the “middle” when it has moved to the right and try to pull it back some. If that means Dems lose some races because they are republican-lite rather than liberal then so be it. > [@](#): > > The Democrats, as far as I can see, have moved from their 40-yard-line to midfield, or their opponents’ 45. As recently as the Clinton presidency, Democrats actively pushed for gun control, defence budgets under 3% of GDP, banning oil exploration off America’s Atlantic and Pacific coasts, a public option or single-payer solution to universal health insurance, and…well, Clinton-era progressive income-tax rates. Today these positions have all been abandoned. And we’re talking about positions held under Bill Clinton, a “third way” leader who himself moved Democratic ideology dramatically to the right, the guy responsible for “ending welfare as we know it”. Since then, Democrats have moved much further yet to the right, in the fruitless search for a compromise with a Republican Party that sees compromise itself as fundamentally evil. The obvious example is that the Democrats in 2010 literally passed the universal health-insurance reform that had been proposed by the GOP opposition in the Clinton administration, only to find today’s GOP vilifying it as a form of Leninist socialist totalitarianism. > > SOURCE: [Reversing polarisation](https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/05/republican-extremism) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/273 "2018-03-09T05:06:23Z")
We have Trump as president and the right will never stop pulling. If we just let go of the ropes, what happens? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/274 "2018-03-09T05:13:27Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Well you said that “Sanders was light years better for African Americans than the Clintons ever were.”, yet he didn’t get the AA vote. So going by that they didn’t agree that he was light years better for them. By their votes they disagreed with you, so you declaring that Bernie was better for them means you think they voted wrong. I do not know why they voted as they did. That said any reading of the civil rights record of Sanders and Clinton will have Sanders way out ahead of Clinton. It is kinda his thing at the center of who he is and he’s been a staunch advocate for civil rights since…well…his whole career. He doesn’t waver on it for political reasons either. He has Clinton beat hands down no matter how you slice it on this issue. That is not to say Clinton has been bad about it but nowhere near Sanders. If black people wanted a champion for minority rights then Sanders was the better choice. Period. No two ways about it. Why they chose otherwise is probably worth a thread of its own. Maybe they had other reasons for wanting Clinton that trumped their civil rights records. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/275 "2018-03-09T05:15:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > We have Trump as president and the right will never stop pulling. If we just let go of the ropes, what happens? We let go of the rope and got Trump. If you have played tug-of-war you know letting go of the rope can work. I am not saying it was a considered strategy of the democrats but the republicans are showing many signs of landing on their ass and the democrats are starting to reel in that rope. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/276 "2018-03-09T07:20:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If black people wanted a champion for minority rights then Sanders was the better choice. Period. No two ways about it. > [@](#): > > “For African-Americans, he never connected the dots from a practical perspective,” Tara Dowdell, a political strategist who has worked local, state, and federal campaigns, told me. “How would this measurably improve your life? And his colorblind approach to economics ignores the fact that this is the United States of America, where policy and economics and race are tied.” > > Put another way, it takes more than marching with MLK to win black votes. […how Bernie lost Black voters.](https://splinternews.com/how-bernie-sanders-lost-black-voters-1793860129) If you think “marching” made Sanders the better choice then you suck at listening to what black people had to say just as much as Bernie did. He was never going to be a “champion” for them. He was too busy blaming “political correctness” for Trump winning the presidency. Clinton isn’t going to run again. Neither should Sanders. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/277 "2018-03-09T07:43:39Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > […how Bernie lost Black voters.](https://splinternews.com/how-bernie-sanders-lost-black-voters-1793860129) > > If you think “marching” made Sanders the better choice then you suck at listening to what black people had to say just as much as Bernie did. He was never going to be a “champion” for them. He was too busy blaming “political correctness” for Trump winning the presidency. Clinton isn’t going to run again. Neither should Sanders. End of story. Ok. Not sure I agree with all that (will have to read it later) but let’s assume that is right for now. (The political correctness bit after Trump won triggers a bullshit flag) How was Clinton better? Was she just better at bullshitting them or was there more substance to it? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/278 "2018-03-09T08:18:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ok. Not sure I agree with all that (will have to read it later) but let’s assume that is right for now. (The political correctness bit after Trump won triggers a bullshit flag) > > How was Clinton better? Was she just better at bullshitting them or was there more substance to it? …that political correctness bit was from me. The article was written before the election. And yeah I had a problem with his remarks after the election. The full quote: > [@](#): > > HAYES: You know, I was talking to some folks who we`re going to bring out > in a little bit, folks who live here who voted for Trump. And one of the > things they talked about was just how much they liked his – the way that > he communicated. > > You know, obviously, he said things that created tremendous controversy, > offense, real – I think, in some cases, real genuine pain for some folks, > Muslim-Americans in this country particularly. > > But there`s a sense that he was – he was violating some set of manners that shouldn`t exist. > > What do – what do you make of that? > > SANDERS: Well, I think that`s true. I think he said he will not be > politically correct. I think he said some outrageous and painful things. > But I think people are tired of the same old same old political rector – > rhetoric. And they believe that he was speaking from his heart and willing > to take on everybody. > > … > > HAYES: What do you think about political correctness? What does that mean > to you? > > SANDERS: What it means is you have a set of talking points which have been > poll-tested and focus group-tested and that`s what you`re saying rather > than what`s really going on. And often what you`re not allowed to say are > things which offend very, very powerful people. > > For years and years, we have been told by Republicans and many Democrats, > that our trade policy was a great idea, that it was working for America. > > Well, you know what? > > The American people don`t believe it. They think there`s something wrong > when just with permanent normal trade relations with China and the Mexican > free trade agreement, we have lost some four million decent paying jobs. > > The American people, I think, want candidates and politicians to have the > guts to stand up to the billionaire class and start representing the middle > class and working families of this country. I don`t think it`s more > complicated than that. When asked about “real genuine pain for some folks, Muslim-Americans in this country particularly”, his instant reaction was to talk about “political correctness.” That says to me everything about his instincts, about what he really thinks. It backs up everything it says in that article. He had a moment to stand up and reach out to minorities that you think he would have been a “better champion” for. And in that moment he reached out to the “white rust-belt” instead. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/279 "2018-03-09T18:40:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > When asked about “real genuine pain for some folks, Muslim-Americans in this country particularly”, his instant reaction was to talk about “political correctness.” That says to me everything about his instincts, about what he really thinks. It backs up everything it says in that article. He had a moment to stand up and reach out to minorities that you think he would have been a “better champion” for. And in that moment he reached out to the “white rust-belt” instead. I haven’t exactly been defending Sanders in this thread - or elsewhere - but I have no problem with the part you quoted. The question was about how Trump communicated, and why that held appeal to ‘some folks.’ Sanders responded to that. And I have no doubt that part of what appealed to some about Trump was a blunt and ‘politically incorrect’ manner of speaking. Now, Democrats don’t need to call Haiti a shithole country or Mexicans rapists to keep up - and, in fact, they should not - but they do need to find a way to appear genuine. Obama managed to do it while holding a standard Democratic agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/280 "2018-03-09T19:02:27Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > When asked about “real genuine pain for some folks, Muslim-Americans in this country particularly”, his instant reaction was to talk about “political correctness.” That says to me everything about his instincts, about what he really thinks. It backs up everything it says in that article. He had a moment to stand up and reach out to minorities that you think he would have been a “better champion” for. And in that moment he reached out to the “white rust-belt” instead. A guy with 35 years in public office and one quote tells you all you need to know about him. To each their own I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322.md?page=15)