# Hey, bike rider, could you maybe follow the traffic laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201 "2001-08-14T15:44:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/41 "2001-08-16T00:58:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stofsky \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic \* > > \*\*I told you. Others told you. Did you look up your own local statutes? Are you riding illegally? > > \*\* > > Gonna answer my question first? Let me rephrase it. Are you riding illegally? Are you contributing your share toward the roads? Or are you pissing and moaning like a so-called welfare queen that you ain’t gettin’ yours? > > Listen, pal, roads weren’t built for bicycles, they were built for cars. Don’t like sharing them? Get a car. Want a bike lane? See if you can pay some municipal fees or some campaign contributions to get them painted. But get off my ass just because I can afford 20th century transportation. \*\* Way to ignore all of my points. I guess you were lying when you said you would support the bicyclists when they paid for their share of the roads. I just proved they did…and them some, and now you completely reverse your position. As for your bit of hand-waving regard my ‘biking legally’. The answer is I don’t know and I don’t care. I’ve biked for ages and gone past scores of police, state and local, none of whom have so much as inquired about the registration of my bike. In the past, I was informed that registration of bikes was purely so it could be tracked more easily in case it was stolen and recovered. If that’s changed I was unaware of it. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/42 "2001-08-16T01:03:09Z")
A. As far as I can find, I am riding legally. There may be some hidden law in Boston requiring bicycle registration, but it is not enforced, or even publicized. Being that Boston was founded in 1630, I doubt anyone actually follows every law that’s on the books, so I really don’t think you can get too indignant about those that don’t research the possibility of unknown laws before they act. B. Since roads are funded by far more than what motorists put in to use them, and since motorists contribute virtually all the congestion, and trucks most of the wear and tear, the average bicyclist pays more of their share than the average driver. C. The roads here were originally built for horses, cows, and pedestrians. D. The roads are essentially a government handout to people who drive cars. The taxes all of us pay are used for roads. Many of those roads cannot be used by bicycles. This is rather unfair to bicyclists. E. Bicycles are considered vehicles in most states, and have the rights and privileges thereof in all (more or less). Bicycles have as much right to use the street as cars do. ---
**Author:** ![GregAtlanta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eb9ed0/32.png) [@GregAtlanta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GregAtlanta)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/43 "2001-08-16T14:39:51Z")
Too many bike riders think being on two wheels makes them inherently better than everyone else, and therefore they can pick and choose when they want to obey the laws. And like most of America, they want ALL the rights but will fight you tooth and nail if you suggest that they come with some responsibilities. (Just look at the messages here for proof.) Look, you don’t like cars and I don’t like bikes on roads designed for cars. But hey, we can all be friends here. You obey the traffic rules with the same consistency as motorists (no more, no less) and I’ll do my best to accept the fact that you’re pedaling at 15 mph on a 50 mph road and wobbling out toward the center of the lane every time I think I might pass you. – Greg, Atlanta (But I’ll never accept the pretentious fuck who bikes on a notoriously narrow road with traffic whizzing by at 60 mph – DRAGGING HIS KID IN ONE OF THOSE LITTLE ORANGE TRAILERS BEHIND HIM! Here’s a clue, buddy: The kid will be the first to go when some big mean SUV runs you over and that six-foot flag on his trailer won’t help.) ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/44 "2001-08-16T14:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\*E. Bicycles are considered vehicles in most states, and have the rights and privileges thereof in all (more or less). Bicycles have as much right to use the street as cars do. \*\* Right. As long as they follow all the traffic laws. And I don’t know anyplace where cars would be allowed to travel on the berm or drive really slowly in comparison to other traffic on the freeways – which are exactly the roads that bicyclists are prohibited from using. Along with farm machinery and animals, for the same reasons. But, hey, I say if you’re a bicyclist and you regularly cruise along at 55-75 miles per hour, you should be allowed on the freeways. If you can keep up and ride safely, more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/45 "2001-08-16T14:56:40Z")
Posted by waterj2: The roads are essentially a government handout to people who drive cars. The taxes all of us pay are used for roads. Many of those roads cannot be used by bicycles. This is rather unfair to bicyclists. In Minnesota, roads are funded completely by taxes on cars. In fact, the amount of money from car taxes greatly exceeds what is spent on roads. I think that there should be many more bike paths. I would love to be able to ride my bike to work and would if there was a clear bike path that went over or under major roads. However, I value my life. Traffic is so bad here that the roads cannot handle the congestion caused by slow moving bikes. I don’t understand why when they build new subdivisions, they are still so bike unfriendly. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/46 "2001-08-16T15:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GregAtlanta \* > \*\*Too many bike riders think being on two wheels makes them inherently better than everyone else, and therefore they can pick and choose when they want to obey the laws. \*\* Wow, stereotype much? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/47 "2001-08-16T16:05:42Z")
Hmph. He didn’t say “all”, or even “most”, he said “too many”. And he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/48 "2001-08-16T16:32:56Z")
Well, as a four time a week bike commuter, I tend to take umbrage at being painted with a derogatory brush. I myself have yelled at a few idiots who’ve ran lights, etc. But it’s precisely because we STAND OUT. Phil almost smacked that idiot, and it’s sticks in his mind. But Phil commutes in the Northern VA area, and I know (used to live there) that there’s not a week goes by when he’s almost creamed or almost gotten creamed by some idiot in a Mercedes or BMW (stereotype alert), yakking on a cell phone while bogarting across three lanes of 495 trying to get to the head of the line at the Springfield exit. My commute is fairly benign, but I think it’s only because I have been doing it for over three years over the same route. The first six months was quite the adventure, but the last couple of years have really been a pleasure. 98% of the traffic that passes me gives me at least a half a lane, if not the whole lane when passing. BTW, as it is **my** responsibility to not impede the flow of traffic, it is **your** responsibility to ensure that it is safe to pass slower traffic. As for the behavior of bike messengers, well, that’s another critter ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/49 "2001-08-16T16:46:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GregAtlanta \* > \*\*Too many bike riders think being on two wheels makes them inherently better than everyone else, and therefore they can pick and choose when they want to obey the laws. And like most of America, they want ALL the rights but will fight you tooth and nail if you suggest that they come with some responsibilities. (Just look at the messages here for proof.) > Look, you don’t like cars and I don’t like bikes on roads designed for cars. But hey, we can all be friends here. You obey the traffic rules with the same consistency as motorists (no more, no less) and I’ll do my best to accept the fact that you’re pedaling at 15 mph on a 50 mph road and wobbling out toward the center of the lane every time I think I might pass you. > – Greg, Atlanta \*\* If I obeyed the traffic rules as much as motorists do, I would have been killed ages ago while commiting an unlawful manuever or slamming into a car I pretended not to see when making a turn. I (for one) do not ‘pick and choose’ which laws I decide to obey. Until you actually experience what its like to be on a bike and see how car drivers treat you _before_ any malice comes into play, you really can’t comment. As for “not liking bikes on roads designed for cars”, well, unless your talking about superhighways, your arguement is invalid. Bike and pedestrians have the right to be on any road that they are not specifically forbidden to be on. I expect to be treated like a human being, not an obsticle. I don’t want extra rights, in fact I don’t ask for a fraction of the rights that many drivers arrogantly _expect_ to be given. By the way, the action you describe above about “wobbling out towards the center of the lane”, sounds like you are about to perform an act called ‘lane splitting’, which is illegal in many states. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/50 "2001-08-16T16:57:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlinkingDuck \* > \*\* > In Minnesota, roads are funded completely by taxes on cars. In fact, the amount of money from car taxes greatly exceeds what is spent on roads. > \*\* DO you have a cite supporting this? Because it is contrary to everything I’ve ever read, and would make Minnesota unique not only among its neighboring states, but in the US. ---
**Author:** ![GregAtlanta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eb9ed0/32.png) [@GregAtlanta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GregAtlanta)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/51 "2001-08-16T17:36:05Z")
Now Miskatronic, do you really mean that I can’t comment until I’ve done it myself? Are we reducing the argument to that level? That eliminates most debates from the beginning. And when you just repeat the fact (I’ll assume it’s a fact) that you have the “right” to be on whatever road you want unless its specifically prohibited, you prove my point. You have the right, by golly, and so you’ll pedal out there no matter what the reality of the situation is. To hell with whether the road was actually designed to accommodate bicycles and whether you’re creating a hazard and whether you’re causing traffic to slow to a crawl. It’s your right, so you’re going to do it and that’s that. I don’t know what lane splitting is, but I was referring to being trapped behind a bike on a busy road, going up a hill very slowly (ever seen North Georgia?)and looking for an opportunity to pass. I don’t think that’s illegal. Please don’t tell me we all have to form a single file line behind you like a parade and just stay there. And by the way, when traffic stops I rarely see the biker stay in line and wait for us to move. He zips up the side, in and out, moving ahead because he CAN. Maybe that would be lane splitting.) ---
**Author:** ![kjorsty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kjorsty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kjorsty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/52 "2001-08-16T18:30:15Z")
Um, gee, **I** bike to work every morning and home again every afternoon. I could have sworn I propel my bike over a bike path. Damn I must live in some strange alternate universe when contrasted with **Gargoyle’s** Seattle. Bike paths are all over town, dimwit. Call up the transportation offices and ask for a ma…oh never mind. I see plenty of cyclists and drivers break the law every day. I don’t think cyclists have any less or more regard for the law than drivers of motorized vehicles. The number of jerks in each group is proportionate. I signal, obey traffic laws and still some motorist’s have demonstrated hostility towards my presence on the road. There are also many polite, courteous drivers who are mistreated by cyclists. What the OP described was just stupidity and thank goodness there was a responsible driver at the intersection. I’ve met SO many cyclists that think they’re better than motorists.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/53 "2001-08-16T18:35:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GregAtlanta \* > **Now Miskatronic, do you really mean that I can’t comment until I’ve done it myself? Are we reducing the argument to that level? That eliminates most debates from the beginning.** As far as this matter is concerned, no, you can’t. You don’t know the shit that motorist give bicyclists. You see bikes in your way and AFAICT that’s all that they seem to be to you. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And when you just repeat the fact (I’ll assume it’s a fact) that you have the “right” to be on whatever road you want unless its specifically prohibited, you prove my point. > \*\* My bicycle is considered a vehicle in all staes in the union. Just because you are occassionally inconvenienced by a cyclist who is in your way does not change that fact. > [@](#): > > \*\* > You have the right, by golly, and so you’ll pedal out there no matter what the reality of the situation is. To hell with whether the road was actually designed to accommodate bicycles and whether you’re creating a hazard and whether you’re causing traffic to slow to a crawl. > \*\* For your information: I live in the city, I have lost time behind cars than they have ever lost behind me. Multiple stops will do that. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/54 "2001-08-16T19:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic \* > My bicycle is considered a vehicle in all staes in the union. Then the individual operating said vehicle really should be obeying the vehicle codes in said states, correct? > [@](#): > > Just because you are occassionally inconvenienced by a cyclist who is in your way does not change that fact. Nor does the bicycle (vehicle) operator being inconvenienced by the vehicle code change the fact that the code is as it is to protect everyone’s safety, which includes the safety of the bicycle (vehicle) operator. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/55 "2001-08-16T19:23:54Z")
Well, heck, Monty, good point. So I guess you’ve never gone 60 in a 55 zone? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/56 "2001-08-16T20:34:53Z")
I heard about Minnesota roads being funded completely from car taxes and left over taxes used for other purposes from radio stations – not a cite. It is quoted often on radio stations here, especially during rush hour. However, I’m trying to find some cites. Here’s one: [http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/caucus/rep/repnews/dist19/transportation\_update\_editorial\_1-4-01.htm](http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/caucus/rep/repnews/dist19/transportation_update_editorial_1-4-01.htm) but it isn’t much. I will continue to look unless work interupts. Blink ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/57 "2001-08-16T21:20:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BF \* > Well, heck, Monty, good point. So I guess you’ve never gone 60 in a 55 zone? And this justifies your flouting the laws exactly how? I didn’t realize “Monty does a different crime” was a valid defense. Have to update my California Driver’s Handbook. Evidently, the DMV screwed up and didn’t tell me that little tidbit. Twit. ---
**Author:** ![Tokiwoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Tokiwoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tokiwoki)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/58 "2001-08-16T21:37:37Z")
Hey, I don’t see what the big deal is. I would rather get out of the way of an annoying bike rider than to clean one off the front of my car. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/59 "2001-08-16T22:32:06Z")
Twit?! I’m sorry, did I make a valid point that you missed? Was there a post I made that indicated I violate traffic laws on a whim, or support those who do? I understand that this is the pit, but it seems this thread has turned into a debate. I would like a retraction on your part. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201/60 "2001-08-16T22:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic \* > > My bicycle is considered a vehicle in all staes in the union. > > Then the individual operating said vehicle really should be obeying the vehicle codes in said states, correct? Am I failing to do so in some way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bike-rider-could-you-maybe-follow-the-traffic-laws/76201.md?page=4)